Why is Spider-Man excluded from The Avengers, X-Men, and FF?

[PCN24454]

As someone else said, this is legit the best CBR post on this topic. Well done! *clap clap*

I actually didn't realize it until reading this...Peter is a horrible team player.

It might actually be his one unaddressed character flaw. It's Spider-Man's version of "Batman is actually a horrible father if you think about it but no writer ever addresses it or if they do it's very brief."

And honestly, it should be addressed. A teenage Spider-Man having this issue is fine...but 25+ Spider-Man not being able to function in teams (forget joining one...simply functioning in one) is arguably irresponsible of Peter.

It's arguably the reason why modern writers like to have him be a fanboy; he wouldn't work with other heroes otherwise.

[Sandy Hausler]

Spider-Man is Marvel's one evergreen IP. It's never been cancelled like the X-Men, Avengers, and Fantastic Four. The merchandising has filled Marvel's coffers for decades. He'll be fine.

The Avengers were cancelled?

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Surprised this thread is making some realize Spidey ain't that good as a team player lol.

I think it'd be fine for him to keep such a flaw of not being that good in teams, 'cause Spidey by himself is already a super flexible character, bringing that flexibility by making him be as competent in a team as he is by himself is a lot, can make him look perfect, and I'd be less interested in him being perfect.

He doesn't have to be an Avenger, but I think Peter should learn to be some sort of team player to an extent. Not working with other superheroes when you need to is arguably irresponsible of a fully-grown up Spider-Man.

[Snoop Dogg]

spider-man is the loner superhero, they put him together with other characters because money, but the best way to do that while also getting more interesting stories is for him to not do that well

[TheCape]

He doesn't have to be an Avenger, but I think Peter should learn to be some sort of team player to an extent. Not working with other superheroes when you need to is arguably irresponsible of a fully-grown up Spider-Man.

He already does that thought, he has a long standing friendship with at least 3 other heroes and ask for help when he needs it, like with Dr Strange in JMS run, granted he doesn't do it often, but i think than that is less a "i.work alone attitude" and more for narrative purposes, if you read Spider-Man the most logical thing to happen is for him to save the day by himself more often than not.

[Sutekh]

I do like that when Peter *does* work well with others, it's more often than not other Spider-peeps with similarly superhuman agility, reaction times and danger senses, or the occasional 'loner' character like Wolverine or Deadpool, who already works just fine on their own and is also not always the strongest team player.

Instead of coordinating and tactics, it's all 'go do what you do best and I'll do my thing and we'll all be awesome together!'

[Lukmendes]

He doesn't have to be an Avenger, but I think Peter should learn to be some sort of team player to an extent. Not working with other superheroes when you need to is arguably irresponsible of a fully-grown up Spider-Man.

But he works with them whenever he has the time to ask for help in a situation that looks overwhelming, at least often enough, how many times he went to ask Reed's help when he couldn't figure out something with science? Or Strange with magic? Not to mention the entirety of Marvel Team-Up lol.

The way he operates is that he's usually a loner, but if someone else arrives to help, he has no problem with it, if they don't screw it up that is, and if he feels like he should ask for help, he may do it if there's time, so he's hardly that bad about it.

I do like that when Peter *does* work well with others, it's more often than not other Spider-peeps with similarly superhuman agility, reaction times and danger senses, or the occasional 'loner' character like Wolverine or Deadpool, who already works just fine on their own and is also not always the strongest team player.

Instead of coordinating and tactics, it's all 'go do what you do best and I'll do my thing and we'll all be awesome together!'

Funnily enough, one of the first times him and Johnny teamed up and tried a "You do your thing, I do mine", backfired hilariously in ASM#19, with both getting in each other's way.

Not surprising though, two dumbass hotheads working together is a recipe for disaster lol.

I dunno about him working best with other Spider-People, since he usually does fine when there's another hero around, Daredevil is an example, whole teams with chain of command, with those he may struggle lol.

[Triniking1234]

The Avengers were cancelled?

No. The hiatus between stuff like Avengers #503 and New Avengers #1 don't count.

[Reed]

Again, see Spidey's relationship with the FF. He's taken more serious there.

[Vegeta]

No. The hiatus between stuff like Avengers #503 and New Avengers #1 don't count.

I think they were referring to the period between Onslaught and Heroes Reborn when no Avengers books were on shelves. Marvel was in bankruptcy during the 90's and most of the Avengers and FF titles were selling rather poorly. They wanted to "reboot" these titles and make them more modern (update the origins, etc.) and farmed them out to popular Image studios (Jim Lee's Wildstorm and Liefeld's Extreme).

[Darthfury78]

He doesn't have to be an Avenger, but I think Peter should learn to be some sort of team player to an extent. Not working with other superheroes when you need to is arguably irresponsible of a fully-grown up Spider-Man.

Parker should work with the Avengers in a non superhero role as part of the supporting cast whose could work with them as himself and not as Spider-Man.

[Huntsman Spider]

Personally, I think if Spider-Man were to have a role in the Avengers, it should be the same that Green Arrow and/or the Flash played for the Justice League in Justice League Unlimited, as they both served as the League's conscience. Green Arrow reminded the League of the regular people on the ground whose needs and concerns would otherwise be forgotten or ignored by a massive organization like the expanded Justice League, and the Flash reminded the founding members of the ideals that got them to come together as the Justice League, let alone even become heroes, in the first place. I could see Spider-Man doing the same thing for the Avengers, reminding them of the human factor that would otherwise be overlooked or even forgotten by a team of heroes used to operating at a much higher scope than street level --- or "people level," as Daredevil once called it to Iron Man --- as well as the core ideals of being a hero that would have initially driven them.

[PCN24454]

Personally, I think if Spider-Man were to have a role in the Avengers, it should be the same that Green Arrow and/or the Flash played for the Justice League in Justice League Unlimited, as they both served as the League's conscience. Green Arrow reminded the League of the regular people on the ground whose needs and concerns would otherwise be forgotten or ignored by a massive organization like the expanded Justice League, and the Flash reminded the founding members of the ideals that got them to come together as the Justice League, let alone even become heroes, in the first place. I could see Spider-Man doing the same thing for the Avengers, reminding them of the human factor that would otherwise be overlooked or even forgotten by a team of heroes used to operating at a much higher scope than street level --- or "people level," as Daredevil once called it to Iron Man --- as well as the core ideals of being a hero that would have initially driven them.

That honestly makes me glad that he was excluded.

Characters like that often get used to make everyone else look like douchebags, a problem that they often wouldn't have if they were alone.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Personally, I think if Spider-Man were to have a role in the Avengers, it should be the same that Green Arrow and/or the Flash played for the Justice League in Justice League Unlimited, as they both served as the League's conscience. Green Arrow reminded the League of the regular people on the ground whose needs and concerns would otherwise be forgotten or ignored by a massive organization like the expanded Justice League, and the Flash reminded the founding members of the ideals that got them to come together as the Justice League, let alone even become heroes, in the first place. I could see Spider-Man doing the same thing for the Avengers, reminding them of the human factor that would otherwise be overlooked or even forgotten by a team of heroes used to operating at a much higher scope than street level --- or "people level," as Daredevil once called it to Iron Man --- as well as the core ideals of being a hero that would have initially driven them.

Interestingly, I feel if Spider-Man was a DC character, he would work better in the Justice League than with the Avengers. The Justice League is big enough, diverse enough, and its members are spread apart enough (each living in their own city and not hanging out most of the time) that you can get away with a Spider-Man that is a Leaguer and hated by the press, or a Spider-Man who is an everyman but it being believable that Bruce Wayne doesn't bail him out.

Green Arrow and Flash are good examples of how DC is already doing Spider-Man on a team better, in a way. Green Arrow isn't a very popular guy in-universe but his membership in the Justice League doesn't feel off. Barry and Wally are both everymen like Peter but it feels believable that Bruce Wayne knows who they are and wouldn't have the chance to bail them out of financial problems.

It also helps that Spider-Man (IMO) would play off Superman and Batman better than he does off of Iron Man and Captain America.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Interestingly, I feel if Spider-Man was a DC character, he would work better in the Justice League than with the Avengers. The Justice League is big enough, diverse enough, and its members are spread apart enough (each living in their own city and not hanging out most of the time) that you can get away with a Spider-Man that's a Leaguer and hated by the press, or a Spider-Man who is an everyman but it being believable that Bruce Wayne doesn't bail him out.

Green Arrow and Flash are good examples of how DC is doing Spider-Man on the team better, in a way. Green Arrow isn't a very popular guy in-universe but it doesn't feel weird he would be in the Justice League. Flash usually deals with the same everyman issues Peter had but it's believable that Bruce Wayne knows who he is and wouldn't have the chance to bail him out of a financial problem.

Spider-Man always did have more in common with DC characters than Marvel...(which is probably why he caught on so big so fast in a time when DC was dominant). Namely the fact that his world pivots around civilian supporting characters. That's an exception in the Marvel Universe rather than a rule. But in DC it's the opposite. In DC every hero has a civilian supporting cast of some kind. And it's understood that each DC goes away in downtime to manage their own city, and own personal stuff.

One of the cool things I love about the original Superman V. The Amazing Spider-Man crossover is that Superman treats Spider-Man with some amount of personal respect. Now of course he does this because he's Superman and a genuinely nice person but it was still a great gesture in that time.

It also helps that Spider-Man (IMO) would play off Superman and Batman better than he does off of Iron Man and Captain America.

Batman of course would come up with some kind of contingency plans to take out Spider-Man when he first meets him while Superman will be his usual affable self.