Why is Spider-Man excluded from The Avengers, X-Men, and FF?

[pageturner]

This idea of being in the Avengers as some kind of progress is absurd.

Captain America was a World War 2 soldier, fought in the US Army alongside generals like Terry Allen, Patton, Eisenhower and Commander in Chief FDR. Are we going to pretend that Cap going from serving in the US Army to the Avengers is some kind of "progression". What about Thor, Prince of Asgard who led the Einerjar in battle numerous times in many wars across the Nine Realms. Is The Avengers a kind of progression for him? I suppose you could argue Avengers represents progression for Tony Stark certainly at least in a moral sense. Being in the Avengers arguably ruined Hank Pym on the other hand and led him to his degradation.

So the way I see it, there's nothing inherent to all of this

It has elevated several characters, Spiderman does not need elevation and in fact elevates the team. He has been called "the best of us" the Supes community multiple times by different characters.

The founders set the levels and spiderman has long ago met them.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

not if he is just reset back to a college students who cant seem to handle any aspect of his life.

That's separate and irrelevant from the question, though.

It's not like Peter stops being in grad school if he's an Avenger.

[pageturner]

That's separate and irrelevant from the question, though.

It's not like Peter stops being in grad school if he's an Avenger.

no it is not it is all part of the question. He cant be an avenger if he has to reset back to what he was in 1975. If he reverts to his loner loser status

[davew128]

That's separate and irrelevant from the question, though.

It's not like Peter stops being in grad school if he's an Avenger.

No, but he should have been done with his Doctorate a long time ago. I know in universe Otto earned it for him, and in the interest of "status quo" it was taken away, but they've all but forgotten him trying to complete it again. I mean good lord, it was nearly 4 decades ago real time when he first dropped out of grad school. When are they EVER going to address the issue of what Peter Parker will ever be outside the costume and actually finishes his PhD again? Seriously. Is he just going to go to the Baxter Building and work with Reed? We've already seen that building and keeping a business is not for him. Teaching isn't compatible with being an Avenger either.

[pageturner]

No, but he should have been done with his Doctorate a long time ago. I know in universe Otto earned it for him, and in the interest of "status quo" it was taken away, but they've all but forgotten him trying to complete it again. I mean good lord, it was nearly 4 decades ago real time when he first dropped out of grad school. When are they EVER going to address the issue of what Peter Parker will ever be outside the costume and actually finishes his PhD again? Seriously. Is he just going to go to the Baxter Building and work with Reed? We've already seen that building and keeping a business is not for him. Teaching isn't compatible with being an Avenger either.

it did not work out for black panther long term when he was a teacher. At 16 he could invent webbing and spider tracers but he cant hold down a job in his 20"s and does not get any chance to be the big brain who outwitted scientist with years on him. It get pathetic after a while.

[Huntsman Spider]

No, but he should have been done with his Doctorate a long time ago. I know in universe Otto earned it for him, and in the interest of "status quo" it was taken away, but they've all but forgotten him trying to complete it again. I mean good lord, it was nearly 4 decades ago real time when he first dropped out of grad school. When are they EVER going to address the issue of what Peter Parker will ever be outside the costume and actually finishes his PhD again? Seriously. Is he just going to go to the Baxter Building and work with Reed? We've already seen that building and keeping a business is not for him. Teaching isn't compatible with being an Avenger either.

They could just restart Avengers Academy and he could be a great teacher there. Lots of life experience and hard-earned wisdom to pass on to younger heroes.

it did not work out for black panther long term when he was a teacher. At 16 he could invent webbing and spider tracers but he cant hold down a job in his 20"s and does not get any chance to be the big brain who outwitted scientist with years on him. It get pathetic after a while.

A lot of his villains are scientists gone bad with years of experience and knowledge on him, and he still beats them on what's become a routine basis. That said, I do see your point, even if Spider-Man as a character and an ongoing mythos is an institution on par with the Avengers and the Fantastic Four and the X-Men all on his lonesome.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

no it is not it is all part of the question. He cant be an avenger if he has to reset back to what he was in 1975. If he reverts to his loner loser status

Spider-Man could have been an Avenger way back in the '70s.

He was offered a spot on The Avengers in a Spider-Man Annual and his hazing ritual involved him capturing or neutralizing the Hulk. Spider-Man went ahead but rejected it when he saw Hulk was a poor troubled soul and he felt the Avengers were a bunch of insensitive jerks he was too good for, as he should because he's too good for the Avengers.

Teaching isn't compatible with being an Avenger either.

So basically the only way to be an Avenger is if you're a billionaire, a government Agent, a literal god, a King of an African Nation, and so on and so forth?

Good to have that confirmed. The Avengers -- poor people need not apply. Come back when you move up the social class ladder.

it did not work out for black panther long term when he was a teacher. At 16 he could invent webbing and spider tracers but he cant hold down a job in his 20"s and does not get any chance to be the big brain who outwitted scientist with years on him. It get pathetic after a while.

Making fun of the peasantry never gets old, seemslike.

Now we have people wielding Avengers-status as some high school clique mocking the main subject matter of Spider-Man stories because they'd rather do stories about rich wealthy types in a mansion with a butler with all the tech at their fingers.

[Frontier]

So basically the only way to be an Avenger is if you're a billionaire, a government Agent, a literal god, a King of an African Nation, and so on and so forth?

Good to have that confirmed. The Avengers -- poor people need not apply. Come back when you move up the social class ladder.

Clint Barton was a carny.

[davew128]

Spider-Man could have been an Avenger way back in the '70s.

He was offered a spot on The Avengers in a Spider-Man Annual and his hazing ritual involved him capturing or neutralizing the Hulk. Spider-Man went ahead but rejected it when he saw Hulk was a poor troubled soul and he felt the Avengers were a bunch of insensitive jerks he was too good for, as he should because he's too good for the Avengers.

He was also offered a spot in Stern's run but Sikorski put a stop to it because he was too controversial and the government (ie anything other than SHIELD) knew nothing about him.

So basically the only way to be an Avenger is if you're a billionaire, a government Agent, a literal god, a King of an African Nation, and so on and so forth?

Good to have that confirmed. The Avengers -- poor people need not apply. Come back when you move up the social class ladder.

Don't be dense. Spider-Man has a secret identity which at this point in time, most of the team still doesn't even know. Was even a plot point recently. Bottom line, its difficult at best to be an Avenger with a secret identity and try to have a civilian life outside of being a hero. Realistically, if his ID was outed again, what non-hero learning institution would EVER have Peter Parker? Your faculty and student population are all at risk for a revenge plot.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Clint Barton was a carny.

So they have a court jester. Typical.

Don't be dense. Spider-Man has a secret identity which at this point in time, most of the team still doesn't even know. Was even a plot point recently. Bottom line, its difficult at best to be an Avenger with a secret identity and try to have a civilian life outside of being a hero.

So that means that only characters without interesting civilian identities or supporting casts and work-a-day status-quos, i.e. characters who mostly can't hold their own titles, can be Avengers.

Glad to have that confirmed.

[Agent Z]

So they have a court jester. Typical.

Well if this ain't the pot calling the kettle black.

[Agent Z]

So basically the only way to be an Avenger is if you're a billionaire, a government Agent, a literal god, a King of an African Nation, and so on and so forth?

The Avengers have included two ex-cons (Hawkeye and Luke Cage), a social worker (Falcon), a WW2 veteran (Captain America), two Romani people (the Maximoffs) and an African-American woman who for a time served as the leader of the team.

This narrative of yours that the Avengers are a club of classist snobs is as false as it is played out.

Making fun of the peasantry never gets old, seemslike.

Hint, when chewing people out for mocking the working class, you might want to avoid using the word "peasantry" without irony.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I think people have serious misconceptions about what a genius is. The media talks about geniuses like these people that are inherently better than you and that just sit around coming up with great ideas. In reality, "genius" has more to do with intense interest combined with an intense amount of work hours in said interest. Even then, the interest is likely to be something very specific and not something anywhere near as broad as "physics" or "chemistry".

What this means is that Peter inventing webbing at 15 is no guarantee he would be able to hold down a job in his 20's. Honestly, there is no guarantee that Peter can even come up with anything else than what he already came up with in comics. We can't just assume Peter could have cured cancer by now if he just put his mind to it simply because he invented webbing. That's not how intelligence works. It's the norm for real-life scientists to have one or two groundbreaking inventions and that's it.

[Frontier]

So they have a court jester. Typical.

I mean, the X-Men have Iceman...

[davew128]

So that means that only characters without interesting civilian identities or supporting casts and work-a-day status-quos, i.e. characters who mostly can't hold their own titles, can be Avengers.

Glad to have that confirmed.

Yup, dense it is. Clearly the concept of a full time superhero being incompatible with having a secret identity and civilian life went right over your head. Why do you think that back in the day the Maria Stark Foundation provided a $1,000/week stipend to regular roster members? Iron Man and Wasp would have been the only members who didn't need it to survive if living outside the mansion.