Superior Spider-Man #11

[Lukmendes]

I just wonder if people put so much emphasis on the redeeming qualities that they forget about the more monstrous aspects of those Ocks. Especially PS4 Ock.

At the very least, PS4 Otto gets some more leeway because they believe it's the the machine messing with his mind, and he's thrown in jail regardless if he was too influenced by it or not, he has redeeming qualities, but is still ultimately a criminal who has to be put in jail.

[Frontier]

At the very least, PS4 Otto gets some more leeway because they believe it's the the machine messing with his mind, and he's thrown in jail regardless if he was too influenced by it or not, he has redeeming qualities, but is still ultimately a criminal who has to be put in jail.

I think they throw in some ambiguity as to how much of it was Otto himself and how much of it was the tentacles messing with him, especially depending on the timeline on how long he was planning things, although by the end of the game there wasn't much difference and he was basically a monster.

Same with Li/Negative.

[Inversed]

I just wonder if people put so much emphasis on the redeeming qualities that they forget about the more monstrous aspects of those Ocks. Especially PS4 Ock.

I think its moreso a case of simply finding the villains who have more understandable motives and arcs as more engaging, despite their terrible actions, than ones who are just plain evil or seeking greed without too much depth.

Take the MCU for example, that's why Loki, Zemo, Vulture, Killmonger, Thanos, etc. are considered the best because they have those (not necessarily fully redeeming) qualities about them. I would probably put PS4 Ock right alongside them.

[Frontier]

I think its moreso a case of simply finding the villains who have more understandable motives and arcs as more engaging, despite their terrible actions, than ones who are just plain evil or seeking greed without too much depth.

Take the MCU for example, that's why Loki, Zemo, Vulture, Killmonger, Thanos, etc. are considered the best because they have those (not necessarily fully redeeming) qualities about them. I would probably put PS4 Ock right alongside them.

I think it all depends on the execution. Even a psychopathic monster can be charismatic or enjoyable depending on how you handle them, although sometimes it helps to have audiences that relate to them.

I think the examples you list worked, not only because they had those qualities, but that (other then I guess Zemo) the movies actually went in-depth with explaining their motivations, who they are, and why they feel that way in contrast to the protagonist. We really didn't get that with guys like Kaecilius, Malekith, or Yellowjacket (and I actually really liked Cross).

[Huntsman Spider]

I think it all depends on the execution. Even a psychopathic monster can be charismatic or enjoyable depending on how you handle them, although sometimes it helps to have audiences that relate to them.

I think the examples you list worked, not only because they had those qualities, but that (other then I guess Zemo) the movies actually went in-depth with explaining their motivations, who they are, and why they feel that way in contrast to the protagonist. We really didn't get that with guys like Kaecilius, Malekith, or Yellowjacket (and I actually really liked Cross).

At least with Cross/Yellowjacket, he had a clear motive --- showing up Hank Pym with Pym's own invention because Pym rejected him as a mentee, which felt to him like being rejected by his own father.

[boots]

i'm all for well rounded realistic villains, but monsters who are just monstrous are ok too.

[themasething]

"One More Reply"

Followed by 'Brand New Post'.

And then "One Message In Time"

I've got to say, this is the best series of replies in any thread.

[Scarlet Spider-Man]

Ah, Mephisto. Marvel's magic mulligan genie.

[themasething]

Ah, Mephisto. Marvel's magic mulligan genie.

Yep. Can't work out an ending? Just summon Mephisto and reset characters with magic.