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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebezial View Post
    i friggin loved reading this whole thread!

    sometimes as a creator i need to sense that the audience is invested and my god this thread just energized me because you are all paying attention!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH, EVERYONE!

    you are all in for some very intense treats with issue 2 and 3


    Stjepan


    Attachment 87564
    I think ma favored panel was when you scared Harley by laughin in the subway
    Last edited by Korath; 09-27-2019 at 01:35 AM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebezial View Post
    i friggin loved reading this whole thread!

    sometimes as a creator i need to sense that the audience is invested and my god this thread just energized me because you are all paying attention!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH, EVERYONE!

    you are all in for some very intense treats with issue 2 and 3


    Stjepan


    Attachment 87564

    It's the story we've been waiting to read.. Thank you for telling it, and dc for letting you.

  3. #63
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoldoaad View Post
    Im guessing that it wont deviate to much from "Maroni threw acid on him"
    the thing Im most curious about is that he is in the public with the bandages
    on both The Long Halloween, The Dark Knight and on B:TAS he kinda disappears from the hospital as already Two-Face
    here it looks like it will have some kind of transition period.
    Right? Definitely interested to see how that plays out or if it does. I really like the idea of a transition period, of Harvey kind of slowly sliding into the madness of Two Face after the burn instead of going full on madman right out of the hospital. Definitely something I'd love to see more writers try and take on.
    Kind of like how the DCAU kind of showed he already had inner demons/turmoils before becoming Two Face with that "Bad Harvey" in therapy scene.

    Quote Originally Posted by nebezial View Post
    i friggin loved reading this whole thread!

    sometimes as a creator i need to sense that the audience is invested and my god this thread just energized me because you are all paying attention!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH, EVERYONE!

    you are all in for some very intense treats with issue 2 and 3


    Stjepan


    Attachment 87564
    Hey cool, the writer/artist read this thread!

    I haven't read the first issue yet - my community doesn't have a local comic book shop, so I always order through Amazon. Usually I just trade wait because of that (single issues through Amazon + shipping and handling makes it hard to justify not waiting), but this title is so interesting I couldn't resist but at least order the first issue. So I'll be looking forward to that soon (not a Prime member, so I got a wait a few days for it to arrive).

    Personally this and that other Harley story (Criminal Sanity) look to be the most interesting things to come out of Black Label so far, besides the sequel to The White Knight.

  4. #64
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoldoaad View Post
    Im guessing that it wont deviate to much from "Maroni threw acid on him"
    the thing Im most curious about is that he is in the public with the bandages
    on both The Long Halloween, The Dark Knight and on B:TAS he kinda disappears from the hospital as already Two-Face
    here it looks like it will have some kind of transition period.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Right? Definitely interested to see how that plays out or if it does. I really like the idea of a transition period, of Harvey kind of slowly sliding into the madness of Two Face after the burn instead of going full on madman right out of the hospital. Definitely something I'd love to see more writers try and take on.
    Kind of like how the DCAU kind of showed he already had inner demons/turmoils before becoming Two Face with that "Bad Harvey" in therapy scene..
    It reminds me of how in the Telltale games he had a facemask to hide the scarred part of his face before he went full-on Two-Face.
    Quote Originally Posted by nebezial View Post
    i friggin loved reading this whole thread!

    sometimes as a creator i need to sense that the audience is invested and my god this thread just energized me because you are all paying attention!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH, EVERYONE!

    you are all in for some very intense treats with issue 2 and 3


    Stjepan


    Attachment 87564
    Thank you for the stellar work Mr. Sejic .

  5. #65
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    I bought it on Comixology, and I started reading it last night. I figured I would get a start on it and come back to it today. Instead, I read until early morning, to make it to the end. I stopped only to stare at the art - such as Harley's arriving at Arkham - and wonder at just what a tremendous labor this project must have been! I agree with the previous posters that this is not the Harley of Mad Love. That Harley slept with her professor because she was dumb (or just lazy), immoral, and devious. This Harley sleeps with him because she is insecure, lonely, and rather fragile. She is plagued by nightmares and is desperate to find a cure. That is the sort of person who could turn to a Svengali like Joker. She makes her own decisions, and she admits that they were bad ones. It is important to remember that, unlike Mad Love, this is Harley's story as told by Harley herself. Is she, like Joker, not necessarily a reliable narrator? So far, I tend to believe that what she says is the truth, and she regrets it.
    Last edited by seismic-2; 09-28-2019 at 09:41 AM.

  6. #66
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seismic-2 View Post
    I bought it on Comixology, and I started reading it last night. I figured I would get a start on it and come back to it today. Instead, I read until early morning, to make it to the end. I stopped only to stare at the art - such as Harley's arriving at Arkham - and wonder at just what a tremendous labor this project must have been! I agree with the previous posters that this is not the Harley of Mad Love. That Harley slept with her professor because she was dumb (or just lazy), immoral, and devious. This Harley sleeps with him because she is insecure, lonely, and rather fragile. She is plagued by nightmares and is desperate to find a cure. That is the sort of person who could turn to a Svengali like Joker. She makes her own decisions, and she admits that they were bad ones. It is important to remember that, unlike Mad Love, this is Harley's story as told by Harley herself. Is she, like Joker, not necessarily a reliable narrator? So far, I tend to believe that what she says is the truth, and she regrets it.
    So was Mad Love. She literally narrates the entire middle section.

    I definitely wouldn't consider Dini's Harley dumb by any stretch. Lazy and devious yes, a bit immoral even before her transition (though not nearly deserving of what happened to her, and I don't think the book asks us to think that at all), but not dumb. Even Batman himself notes that Harley came closer to killing him than the Joker, she does it all on her own.

    Still loving this book though. Nothing can ever fully replace Mad Love IMO, but this is still thus far a fantastic alternative. Pretty much the only one.

  7. #67
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    So was Mad Love. She literally narrates the entire middle section.
    It's true that Harley narrates parts of Mad Love, the framing of the narration is very different. She is introduced from Batman's point of view, and his interpretation of her character is not contradicted by Harley's later narration. And the Harley we get in Mad Love is literally centered around the Joker—everything about her is about him. Her own narration starts with the arrival at Arkham and meeting the Joker.

    Harleen, on the other hand, starts with Harleen Quinzel the doctor, and everything is told from her point of view. Even more important, we are both shown and told what she wants to accomplish, and the Harleen here is a much more well-rounded character than the Harleen of Mad Love: she has a life, goals, and relations (few as they are) of her own. Perhaps most importantly, the Harley of Mad Love has, I think, very little in common with the Harley as she has developed by some of the latter writers and her relation with Poison Ivy.

    Perhaps the best way to phrase this: the Harley Quinn of Mad Love will cry over the Joker; the Harley Quinn of Harleen cries for herself.

    ETA: Or on second thought, the Harley Quin of Mad Love cries over what the Joker does to her; the Harley Quinn of Harleen cries over what she has become.
    Last edited by kjn; 09-28-2019 at 01:32 PM.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    It's true that Harley narrates parts of Mad Love, the framing of the narration is very different. She is introduced from Batman's point of view, and his interpretation of her character is not contradicted by Harley's later narration. And the Harley we get in Mad Love is literally centered around the Joker—everything about her is about him. Her own narration starts with the arrival at Arkham and meeting the Joker.

    Harleen, on the other hand, starts with Harleen Quinzel the doctor, and everything is told from her point of view. Even more important, we are both shown and told what she wants to accomplish, and the Harleen here is a much more well-rounded character than the Harleen of Mad Love: she has a life, goals, and relations (few as they are) of her own. Perhaps most importantly, the Harley of Mad Love has, I think, very little in common with the Harley as she has developed by some of the latter writers and her relation with Poison Ivy.

    Perhaps the best way to phrase this: the Harley Quinn of Mad Love will cry over the Joker; the Harley Quinn of Harleen cries for herself.
    The thing is, I don't regard her point of view meshing with Batman's as a bad thing. Harley's was never a saint, but I also don't view that as a reason she shouldn't be pitied for what the Joker has done to her. Batman still pities her. And it lasts like four pages if that before going to Harley.

    Mad Love Harley having little in common with later iterations of herself, including her relationship with Ivy, is hardly a bad thing to me as most of those aren't very interesting compared to the original version. Very few authors have gotten the dynamic "right" for me, she's seldom worked as well in the mainstream DCU as she has in the DCAU and its tie in materials because she (unlike most Bat-characters) had a very distinct voice and arc and interacted with one coherent take on the Joker and Ivy. They, and most characters in DC, are hardly consistent with themselves in the mainstream books. it was the first to do anything with her, the first to define her. Later takes can offer new things that people like, but them not meshing with the older comic is not a failing on Mad Love's part at all. Especially as it is a coherent graphic novel with a vision where the writing and art is firing on all cylinders, something not all comics are capable of. Mad Love and the DCAU didn't delve into her backstory in too much depth, but they didn't really have to to paint a well rounded distinct character. They show us who she is in her interactions with Joker, Ivy and even Batman when the other two aren't around.

    Mad Love not crying for herself when she should is the entire point of the comic. She is devoting herself entirely to this man who has little regard for her. Joan Leland points this out in the end. Just as she is about to come around, the Joker has to display the bare minimum of affection to regain his control over her. It's a tragedy in the guise of a dark, zany cartoon befitting the title character and her abuser (they are Monster Clowns after all). I'm loving what I've seen of Harleen so far, but I don't think it needs to replace Mad Love at all. Or it doing things Mad Love didn't doesn't make the latter outdated or inferior.

  9. #69
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    i pay my homage to the briliance of paul dini's creation. to me it is for harley as exploding krypton is for superman and pearls and bodies in an alley are for batman. it is her origin, i don't want to disrespect that in any way. however, you'll find out very soon that this series walks its own road. and all of it ramps up with issue 2.

    generally harleen has always been conceived a full 3 storyarc series. 9 issues in total. first arc is arkham, second, harley quinn as a villain and third her friendship with ivy and attempt to at least free herself from her obsession as redemption is beyond her reach.

    having said that of course each storyarc is structured in a way that feels like a conclusive end. if it stopped there, you would feel that you got a complete story.

    i did this intentionally as in my line of work I've learned to hope for the best but prepare for the worst and if the sales are there, it will go on, if not, at least it will feel complete

    having said that i'm very much gonna try to get the full 9 issues approved XD



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    Last edited by nebezial; 09-28-2019 at 04:42 PM.

  10. #70
    Mind Controller Arnoldoaad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebezial View Post
    i pay my homage to the briliance of paul dini's creation. to me it is for harley as exploding krypton is for superman and pearls and bodies in an alley are for batman. it is her origin, i don't want to disrespect that in any way. however, you'll find out very soon that this series walks its own road. and all of it ramps up with issue 2.
    I hate asking this question but what do you mean It exactly?
    It as in the entirety of Mad Love or a particular specific element exactly

    If it is just Mad Love on its entirety I wouldnt say that there is any disrespect on it
    I do believe that pretty much everyone in this threat admires Mad Love and just like you sees it as the definitive origin
    but that doesnt mean it cannot be improved
    I love Hush by Loeb but House of Hush/Heart of Hush by Dini is a better origin for the character even though is less popular

    equally I do stand what I said before If you are aiming to create a new definitive version, go for it, Geoff Johns did that with GL you can do it here too, you are on the right track

    Quote Originally Posted by nebezial View Post
    generally harleen has always been conceived a full 3 storyarc series. 9 issues in total. first arc is arkham, second, harley quinn as a villain and third her friendship with ivy and attempt to at least free herself from her obsession as redemption is beyond her reach.

    having said that of course each storyarc is structured in a way that feels like a conclusive end. if it stopped there, you would feel that you got a complete story.

    i did this intentionally as in my line of work I've learned to hope for the best but prepare for the worst and if the sales are there, it will go on, if not, at least it will feel complete

    having said that i'm very much gonna try to get the full 9 issues approved XD
    ah spoilers
    This sounds like a pretty damn good idea

    hope it will go for the gold
    Last edited by Arnoldoaad; 09-28-2019 at 11:54 PM.

  11. #71
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    The thing is, I don't regard her point of view meshing with Batman's as a bad thing. Harley's was never a saint, but I also don't view that as a reason she shouldn't be pitied for what the Joker has done to her. Batman still pities her. And it lasts like four pages if that before going to Harley.
    I don't think seismic-2 is saying that Mad Love is a bad story, or that it necessarily needed to be improved upon. But it is told from the PoV of Harley in the mid-90's, and a lot has changed with both the character and the way she is viewed since then. And like many good retellings, what Sejic does here is not merely retelling the previous story, but reframing it from the point of view of Harley Quinn as many view the character today.

    Quote Originally Posted by nebezial View Post
    i pay my homage to the briliance of paul dini's creation. to me it is for harley as exploding krypton is for superman and pearls and bodies in an alley are for batman. it is her origin, i don't want to disrespect that in any way. however, you'll find out very soon that this series walks its own road. and all of it ramps up with issue 2.
    Yeah, and from what I can tell you've succeeded: it has revisited the story beats of Mad Love, but with a Harley Quinn of today rather than the DCAU Harley Quinn. A good story can stand being retold and embellished upon, that's one of its characteristics. Just like the pearls for Batman's mother, which I think is a rather recent invention.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoldoaad View Post
    I hate asking this question but what do you mean It exactly?
    It as in the entirety of Mad Love or a particular specific element exactly

    If it is just Mad Love on its entirety I wouldnt say that there is any disrespect on it
    I do believe that pretty much everyone in this threat admires Mad Love and just like you sees it as the definitive origin
    but that doesnt mean it cannot be improved
    I love Hush by Loeb but House of Hush/Heart of Hush by Dini is a better origin for the character even though is less popular

    equally I do stand what I said before If you are aiming to create a new definitive version, go for it, Geoff Johns did that with GL you can do it here too, you are on the right track



    ah spoilers
    This sounds like a pretty damn good idea

    hope it will go for the gold
    what i mean is, mad love in it's basic outlines is the origin story of harley. in broad beats i intend to pay my respects to it, these beats being, harley being joker's doctor, and falling in love with him and ending up on his side.


    however, as you will see with issue 2 things will take a very unique approach in how we get there. suffice to say, my intention is to leave the audience with chills down their spine by the end of two, and completely wrecked by the end of 3 when all my setup works it's way to the big one. the scene to end all the scenes in this storyarc. i really do hope i stick this landing cause this is gonna be intense! XD

  13. #73
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    A great critical review of Harleen #1: HARLEEN #1 Shines a Dark Light On Harley Quinn’s Traumatic Creation

    Harley being a prisoner within herself shows up all over HARLEEN #1’s artwork. The standard cover shows a familiar Harley Quinn in full garb with a psychotic grin. Behind a crack, though, dwells a glimpse of Harleen Quinzel, wide eyed and afraid with mascara tears running down her cheek to form a shattered diamond. She holds the mask up with her hand, afraid to let it slip off; because what would happen if it did?
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  14. #74
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebezial View Post
    however, as you will see with issue 2 things will take a very unique approach in how we get there. suffice to say, my intention is to leave the audience with chills down their spine by the end of two, and completely wrecked by the end of 3 when all my setup works it's way to the big one. the scene to end all the scenes in this storyarc. i really do hope i stick this landing cause this is gonna be intense! XD
    From what I've seen of your work, I am not at all concerned about you sticking the landing. Seriously man, you got mad skills and have been making me jealous of your talent since Witchblade. Soooo.....what're the odds of getting you on Nightwing sometime? Dick Grayson could use some of your magic, I think.

    I really hope the sales are there for this book, because this is a story that needs to be completed in full. My wife is a huge Harley fan and it's gonna break her heart if you don't get the chance to finish this.
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  15. #75
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Shameless Ascended!

    On the topic of the book, I truly have not been the slightest bit interested in Harley in like 8 years now, but from the get-go, the art and scenes from this series have really drawn me in. When I get the chance to pick it up, I'm really looking forward to giving this a shot!
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


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