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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    I'm curious how the franchise would've gone had Lucas not sold. I remember there were plans to 3D the entire series, the old EU to continue with Sword of the Jedi etc. and Clone Wars, and of course the 1313 game.

    I think both TPM 3D and Red Tails not doing so great kind of was the last straw. This was also pretty much the heyday of RedLettermedia and prequel backlash was pretty much at an all-time high even years later (and despite Clone Wars being OK).
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xero Kaiser View Post
    Basically. Ever since these news came out, you have all these YouTube videos coming out and crapping on Disney for moving away from GL's vision but none of them acknowledge why Disney might have wanted to distance themselves from his concepts.

    Or why GL wanted to wash his hands of the Star Wars franchise in the first place.
    I believe it comes from Sam Witwer when he was working on Clone Wars, but the reason George Lucas was so into it was because he hated working on Star Wars. He didn't want to work on it and did everything in his power to make it something he'd enjoy. George was kind of over it and fell in love with it again as a result.

    Funny how people don't bring that up.

    Also funny that he has been invited to sets, had a hand in The Mandolorian, and influenced Stormtrooper design. He may not be creative lead but he trained Filoni and people still address his suggestions enough the Tank Trooper happened. They seem to be more than happy to have him on a project.
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  3. #63
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    The people Lucas does not speak for are the people that so badly want rotten tomatoes to matter in a serious conversation about the quality of a movie or thinks box office success automatically means a movie qualifies as good art.

    Its obvious George Lucas speaks for the people that care about what's in the movie, the content and film making. people who did not grow up and are into the shallow culture of rotten tomatoes and box office dollars.
    So you say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Again look at what lucas said in a nutshell. the film making choices is poor.
    Funny that Lucas actually didn't say much about the technical aspects of the films, just that he wanted something new over something that rhymed with the old.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    ...which is what most of us have been saying about not just star wars but most disney movies that is subjected to this bizarre manufactured formula, Lucas is a film maker at heart. its no surprise he ended up disliking Disney.[B] Disney does not firstly make films, they make products and films later.
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  4. #64
    Mighty Member Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    So you say.

    Funny that Lucas actually didn't say much about the technical aspects of the films, just that he wanted something new over something that rhymed with the old.
    https://www.cnet.com/news/disney-ceo...quel-approach/
    ''In each of the films in the original trilogy, it was important to [Lucas] to present new worlds, new stories, new characters, and new technologies. In this one, he said, 'There weren't enough visual or technical leaps forward,'" Iger said.

    Lucas did say a lot about technically aspect. Really funnier that he did.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 10-01-2019 at 02:32 AM.

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Its more heartbreaking when you realize JJ Abrams had no creative choice. there is a big huge difference between force awakens and star trek 2009, I saw JJ the film maker in star trek 2009 regardless of if you like the movie or his style or not. in force awakens I saw a man hired to be a yes man to anything disney wanted and we knew nothing about his actual input in the movie.
    My understanding was that J J Abrams made the call to hold off on Luke in TFA until the very last moment, because he didn't want it to become Luke's film. But I'm just going off memory from interviews a few years back, so I could be wrong.

    There was apparently an early draft where Luke shows up mid-point in the film and he and Ray go underwater to recover some kind of artifact from the Death Star remains. It seems like maybe this idea has been repurposed for ROS....

    At any rate, I know that Mark Hamill was really bummed out that he never got to share one last moment onscreen with the original crew all together. That was the thing he had been most excited about.

  6. #66
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    My understanding was that J J Abrams made the call to hold off on Luke in TFA until the very last moment, because he didn't want it to become Luke's film. But I'm just going off memory from interviews a few years back, so I could be wrong.

    There was apparently an early draft where Luke shows up mid-point in the film and he and Ray go underwater to recover some kind of artifact from the Death Star remains. It seems like maybe this idea has been repurposed for ROS....

    At any rate, I know that Mark Hamill was really bummed out that he never got to share one last moment onscreen with the original crew all together. That was the thing he had been most excited about.
    I think a lot of that had to do with Michael Arndt's first draft screen play before JJ and Lawrence Kasdan were added. From my understanding it was Arnedt's idea to push the interaction and training of Rey out of TFA mainly to keep him form being an Obi-Wan clone. Every on pushes it all on Abrams but TFA has three screen writer credits with Kasden having a long history with Lucas Films.

    From every thing that I've read Lucas was only displeased with the "safe" direction that the TFA took to make a fan driven movie instead of taking a chance to make something completely different. Gareth Edwards had a private screening of Rogue One with Lucas in which Edward said that he can die happy now after the apparent approval of Lucas. Ron Howard talks about how Lucas shows up to the set of SOLO and actually helps direct on of the scenes



    This does not seem like Lucas is completely mad at every thing Disney has done. The only thing he has said about TLJ (according to Connie Wethington, a rep for Lucas) is that it was "beautifully made" and “was complimentary,” when speaking with director Rian Johnson after seeing the picture.
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  7. #67
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    And in George's own words fans would have hated him for his plans on the Star Wars sequels. The idea that Saint George never did any thing wrong is funny. Because midichlorians and Jar Jar Binks went over so well the fans or the "I hate sand" with it's more than lack luster writing and direction was far from cinematic gold. People seem to be forgetting how much hate Lucas got during the prequels that he "ruined" people childhood and destroyed Star Wars with a big Vader "Noooooooooooo". And that is not even going into Indian Jones and the Crystal Skull.
    This is 2019 though and opinions aren't set in stone. Yeah, people were originally excited for a fresh perspective, but we now know that Disney Star Wars is a disaster. Not to mention that people have had a long time to reflect on the PT and recognize the fantastic world building, characters and themes.

    You can make fun of certain elements of the PT sure, like the dialogue, but is there a single memorable line from ST? No, but there are memorable lines from the PT, like "This is how democracy dies...", "I have the high ground!" Are there memorable settings from the ST? No, but there sure are in the PT.

    You can say, "Well maybe in time people will appreciate it more!" And maybe people will, but in the present, they don't.
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  8. #68
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    This is 2019 though and opinions aren't set in stone. Yeah, people were originally excited for a fresh perspective, but we now know that Disney Star Wars is a disaster. Not to mention that people have had a long time to reflect on the PT and recognize the fantastic world building, characters and themes.

    You can make fun of certain elements of the PT sure, like the dialogue, but is there a single memorable line from ST? No, but there are memorable lines from the PT, like "This is how democracy dies...", "I have the high ground!" Are there memorable settings from the ST? No, but there sure are in the PT.

    You can say, "Well maybe in time people will appreciate it more!" And maybe people will, but in the present, they don't.
    So we should now make movies so that fit well into memes? Sponge Bob has got to be the greatest achievement to entertainment of all time! I don't think it is the one liners that make the PT so loved- The "I hate sand" is not said with love in our hearts. It is more likely that over time we have all come to accept it is as it is. That there is nothing we can do about it. With that said George pretty much said that his focus (if he were the one to carry on the story) would have been focused on midichlorians or rather the Whills. He also said that it would something that most fans would have hated. If you read Bob's book you would see they looked at George's Idea and thought it over and decided that it was too risky to come out with right out of the box for Disney. He made a joke that the first movie was a 4 billion dollar movie. Basically they had to play it safe and put something out there that the fan liked (and that is how George described The Force Awakens) first and George's ides didn't fit so they decided to part ways.

    Now to be clear I hated Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi. Thought it was horrible story telling, forced character development, and leaned way too much on plot devices to the point the plot was really unclear. And I do not like how untrained Rey and Kilo Ren are super force users with power that is equal to that of Starkiller in the Force Unlashed video games. I think the most interesting new character is Finn and the lest is Poe. But, I think that I'll let the trilogy complete before I completely make up my mind. As with the PT the Revenge of the Sith (though we all knew some what how it would end) gave us more to reflect on and made the entire trilogy (even Attack of the Clones...sand...shudder) more palatable I'm optimistic that Rise of Skywalker will close one door but open up many others.
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  9. #69
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    So we should now make movies so that fit well into memes? Sponge Bob has got to be the greatest achievement to entertainment of all time!
    Spongebob is considered to be one of the greatest cartoon series of all time, at least the first few seasons are, and I think, much like the Simpson, because people continue to replicate memes from that show 20 years later it demonstrate its cultural impact. When people replicate elements of a piece of media its a form of engagement and therefore evidence of a strong fan base.

    However, it really does help if the base book/film/comic book is good. The reason why Ghost Busters is still a beloved today is because the dialogue is so fantastic. Time tends to weed out mediocrity and if the PT were devoid of value they would have been swept away despite its franchise ties. I get the idea that the ST had to play it safe, but the PT weren't radically different from the OT either, they're still fantasy adventure stories, yet they still feel distinct from the OT even when they share the same setting (Tatooine). Where as the ST feels like OT even when none of the locations are repeated.
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  10. #70
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    This is 2019 though and opinions aren't set in stone. Yeah, people were originally excited for a fresh perspective, but we now know that Disney Star Wars is a disaster. Not to mention that people have had a long time to reflect on the PT and recognize the fantastic world building, characters and themes.

    You can make fun of certain elements of the PT sure, like the dialogue, but is there a single memorable line from ST? No, but there are memorable lines from the PT, like "This is how democracy dies...", "I have the high ground!" Are there memorable settings from the ST? No, but there sure are in the PT.

    You can say, "Well maybe in time people will appreciate it more!" And maybe people will, but in the present, they don't.
    Except there are a crap ton of people who don't think the sequels are disastrous...I mean I loath them and I'm thinking you do too but there are much more that don't.

  11. #71
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    I like Howard the Duck and Cannon Films but I won't argue they're good just I find them entertaining. The Prequels are bad not only as Star Wars filns but as films they're just bad.

    Also George gave us the Special Editions which IMO was the single worst sin ever committed to Star Wars. I respect George as a innovator and filmmaker but he got bad at making movies once he surrounded himself with Yes men and women.

    I HATE TLJ consider it the worst SW film ever but I will take TFA, Rogue One, and even Solo with it's flaws over any Prequel.

    George deserves respect but he also deserves his retirement from Star Wars.

  12. #72
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    https://www.cnet.com/news/disney-ceo...quel-approach/
    ''In each of the films in the original trilogy, it was important to [Lucas] to present new worlds, new stories, new characters, and new technologies. In this one, he said, 'There weren't enough visual or technical leaps forward,'" Iger said.

    Lucas did say a lot about technically aspect. Really funnier that he did.
    Wonder if we are talking about different things. I was thinking craftsmanship of the movies in general, not so much on advancing filmmaking tech. I am also very unsure if a movie not being made with groundbreaking technology makes it bad by default (the Lion King remake was a technological marvel, but arguably the worst of the Disney remakes to date, while the original Star Trek show was made on the cheaper side of things, but is still remembered today unlike other razzle-dazzle shows of the time because of the stories and characters).

    We've known that Lucas wasn't a fan of of TFA for years (as is his right) and had his own reasons. However, all of them are of a subjective nature; e.g. he wanted a different kind of movie. There could be ways to argue that TFA was a "bad" movie or against it, but citing Lucas is not one of them.
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  13. #73
    Take Me Higher The Negative Zone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    This is 2019 though and opinions aren't set in stone. Yeah, people were originally excited for a fresh perspective, but we now know that Disney Star Wars is a disaster. Not to mention that people have had a long time to reflect on the PT and recognize the fantastic world building, characters and themes.

    You can make fun of certain elements of the PT sure, like the dialogue, but is there a single memorable line from ST? No, but there are memorable lines from the PT, like "This is how democracy dies...", "I have the high ground!" Are there memorable settings from the ST? No, but there sure are in the PT.

    You can say, "Well maybe in time people will appreciate it more!" And maybe people will, but in the present, they don't.
    The prequel era has become popular due to the fans growing up with it. It took a long time. All thanks to games, books, and a tv series all helping out. Give some time for the kids to grow up with the Disney Star Wars movies.

  14. #74
    Wrath of a God Xero Kaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Negative Zone View Post
    All thanks to games, books, and a tv series all helping out
    Yeah, those did a lot to boost the status of the prequel era as a whole

    Will the sequel trilogy get the same treatment? It's being handled so haphazardly, I don't know... A few years into the prequels and we had already started seeing things fleshed out with the first Clone Wars series, Republic Commando, OG Battlefront 2 and various comics. The sequel trilogy doesn't seem to be getting the same kind of treatment.
    Last edited by Xero Kaiser; 10-02-2019 at 06:40 AM.

  15. #75
    iMan 42s
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xero Kaiser View Post
    Yeah, those did a lot to boost the status of the prequel era as a whole

    Will the sequel trilogy get the same treatment? It's being handled so haphazardly, I don't know... A few years into the prequels and we had already started seeing things fleshed out with the first Clone Wars series, Republic Commando, OG Battlefront 2 and various comics. The sequel trilogy doesn't seem to be getting the same kind of treatment.
    There's a lot to unpack here but to put it lightly, the Prequels came out of a different environment.

    The Prequels had a lot of contradictions in the content that was put out and the content that was put out was easier to produce. Games of the early 2000's are significantly easier to produce than games are today. The production values are just that different. Things like Republic Commando also came out during an era when there was a specific mandate to get Prequel content going. George Lucas was late on putting the Prequels together and had to get stuff out the door, so we just had a gluttony of content in that period. The Clone Wars multi-media project was this with a ton of Prequel content meant to flesh out the world and make some money, especially make money since Lucas was behind on production.

    Going into the Sequel trilogy we had to come off The Clone Wars and we don't know exactly where the Sequels are going yet. That's how we get Rebels since Rogue One was the next big thing and we know the ins and outs of the OT. Disney also had to dump the old EU meaning everything has to be new or risk contradicting the new films or another project unless stated otherwise. And while George Lucas had to only focus on two eras at the time, Disney has to handle three and have it all make sense since they don't use the tier system the old crew did. So we can't simply shove out content since it's all canon. This was all coming out within a significantly shorter time-frame. TFA was released in 2015 and ROS is 2019 so while it is planned out better, the Sequels are coming out faster and so there isn't a big enough period to let the EU content simmer like the Prequels. And outside of the films since George worked on the Filoni Clone Wars, it was even longer worked on.

    It's just two very different situations.
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