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  1. #31
    The One Above All 616MarvelYear is LeapYear's Avatar
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    Uncanny X-Men #126 Oct 1979
    "How Sharper than a Serpent's Tooth...!"
    The X-Men’s private Blackbird jet blazes across Scotland’s moors in haste to reach Muir Isle.
    Responding to Lorna Dane’s distress over the phone, the X-Men left in
    such a rush that they could not even wait for the Beast to rejoin them.
    Upon arriving at Muir, they split into small groups to search the facility. Colossus finds Alex, who has suited up as Havok.
    Banshee and Cyclops find Lorna and the ravaged body of Angus MacWhirter. Storm finds Moira.

    Cyclops finds Phoenix still dazed after a fight with Mutant X.
    In a haze, she initially thinks Cyclops is Jason Wyngarde; Scott is disturbed when she calls out the name Jason.

    The entire group convenes in Moira’s home. Jamie recounts the events that happened after Lorna’s call was cut short:
    Mutant X first attacked Phoenix, but she drove him off. Afterwards, Jamie created a small army of duplicates to search the grounds.
    When Mutant X then attacked Lorna, she also successfully repelled him but one of Jamie’s
    duplicates came on the scene and the villain took him over, knocking Jamie for a loop.

    Cyclops demands to know who Mutant X is and Moira reveals that he is her son.

    Meanwhile, using the form of Madrox's doubles body, Mutant X has escaped to the nearby city
    of Stornoway where he attempts to find a new body Jamie’s duplicate is almost spent.
    He crosses paths with an unaware Jason Wyngarde, but is foiled by the latter man’s psychic defense mechanism.
    Alas, the hapless Ferdie Duncan fares less well.

    The next morning the X-Men including Phoenix, Havok, Polaris and Moira head to the mainland
    while Jamie remains behind. They reason that their target will be headed towards a major town or city. As they split up,

    Moira explains to Cyclops that she’s been attempting for years to rein in her son’s killer instinct with no success.
    She further explains that he will be driven to seek more host bodies as he burns
    through his victims and that his one weakness is any form of metal, which is toxic to him.

    From a distance, Jason Wyngarde observes the team’s dispersal
    and causes Jean to suddenly experience another vision of an 18th century life.
    She's a Scottish noblewoman riding horseback on a hunt alongside her “betrothed” -- Jason.
    Suddenly, the dogs bring their quarry down and when Jason clears them off, he offers Jean the knife in order to put down their quarry.
    She initially accepts his offer but blanches when she realizes they’ve been
    hunting a man playing the part of the stag - and Jason claims it was her own idea!
    The shock reverts her back to reality and she finds a mummified corpse of one of Mutant X’s victims.

    Wolverine has picked up Mutant X's scent. Ignoring the radio call concerning Jean’s find, he follows his nose to a policeman.
    Impressed at how fast Wolverine saw through his new facade, Mutant X tries to
    possess him only to recoil when he realizes his opponent’s his body is laced with metal.

    Nightcrawler drives up just as Wolverine threatens to gut their enemy.
    Mutant X, who now declares that he has renamed himself Proteus,
    demonstrates his ability to warp and twist reality itself.
    Wolverine's heightened senses make him especially susceptible to this form of attack.
    He and Nightcrawler are nearly overwhelmed when Storm arrives to aid them.
    Her attack distracts Proteus but he quickly turns gravity upside down on her, causing her crash her into the ground.
    Injured and in danger of becoming Proteus's next host, she desperately tries to repel him with a massive gust of wind.
    Yet he inexorably closes in on her.

    Story by Chris Claremont and John Byrne. Art by John Byrne and Terry Austin.
    Imperius Rex!
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  2. #32
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Do you peeps think Moira is a villain?
    "So many killers... so much screaming... so many dying. I didn't know where to turn, who to help - which sentinel to stop first. And with the accusations of human judgement screaming in my ears... all I could think was that he was right. MAGNETO HAD BEEN RIGHT ALL ALONG!"

  3. #33
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    Do you peeps think Moira is a villain?
    She's the pragmatic idealist's pragmatic pragmatist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    That's what I have over Beelzebub now, Honoka-chan. He thinks he's a third-year school idol. I know what I am. And in this fight-- that makes me INVINCIBLE!

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    She's the pragmatic idealist's pragmatic pragmatist.
    Well said.
    "So many killers... so much screaming... so many dying. I didn't know where to turn, who to help - which sentinel to stop first. And with the accusations of human judgement screaming in my ears... all I could think was that he was right. MAGNETO HAD BEEN RIGHT ALL ALONG!"

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnormallyNormal View Post
    Do you peeps think Moira is a villain?
    Mutants cant be villains.

  6. #36
    Fantastic Member ARkadelphia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    Mutants cant be villains.
    State your case
    “Tell me, are you an Avenger now? The brand is not what it once was” - Mr. Sinister, Uncanny X-Men (2019) #19

  7. #37
    Mighty Member sungila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    She's the pragmatic idealist's pragmatic pragmatist.
    Yes!

    She's also Xavier's ex, X...have we talked about this?

    Is this something to talk about?

    There's a way of reading her scene with Xavier as her confronting the problem - that being Xavier (not once have you changed...thank you...that's not a compliment).

    Are Xavier, Magneto and Apocalypse the most difficult obstacles in Moria's quest to save human and mutant kind?

    The cannon that Mags (new gods), Xav (gated white privilege idealism, appropriated righteous entitlement), Apocalypse (utility belt and cargo pants, the end on horses and calvary Alamo'chosism) collectively represent a closed patriarchal system. It self propels and self defines, it talks across its own aisles, it makes a club of things, it creates a council and secret handshake...it holds doors or holds the patents for the invention of automatic ones.

    What would Moira do?

    What has she been up to all along?

    Why didn't we notice before Hickman told us to pay attention?

    Remember that Moria and Gabrielle Haller didn't want to tell Xavier about Legion and that Xavier didn't know about him, and that time Mags was in the Bermuda triangle feeling things about himself with "human woman" Lee Forester being there...so much of this stuff, this cannon...this Onslaught of what not...it's possible to actually use the momentum of Sisyphus' stone to smash the glass protected past into a wreck of useful salvage.

    Most of my life men have told me what they think about comic books.

    I just got off the phone with a woman at the comic shop who asked me if I read Marauders #1 and then when I said 'yea' just started laughing and said "so good, right?" and I forgot all about my critical opinion and smiled and simply admitted (to myself too)

    'yes'

    It's always been way too long Moira X!

    The fair isn't. And never was...fair.
    Last edited by sungila; 11-04-2019 at 12:22 PM.
    “The reason of the unreasonableness which against my reason is wrought, doth so weaken my reason, as with all reason I do justly complain on your beauty.”
    ― Miguel de Cervantes Don Quixote

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARkadelphia View Post
    State your case
    X-Men have never operated under the silly and childish hero/villain dichotomy.
    Do these look superheroic:



    They took every code of the superhero identity and flipped them on their heads. They were hated by the normal populace, they fought other "heroes" and each other, sometimes to the death. They also killed and allied themselves with nefarious individuals. Not in an attempt to be edgy but because they were humane. And as an extension of that, they're enemies weren't villains, only had different views on how to achieve the same goals. Ironically, when Marvel tried to steal the formula and apply it to the Avengers they came off as irredeemably villainous.

  9. #39
    Spectacular Member Lapsus's Avatar
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    Most of their villains arent even grey, they are simply outright monsters.

    Selene, Apocalypse, Sinister, the human villains which they are always the same villain.

    The only ones which can be regarded as grey are Magneto and maybe Bolivar Trask in the begining, motivated more for fear than hate.

    And still, they can be perfectly considered villains.

  10. #40
    Incredible Member Mr Cochese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    X-Men have never operated under the silly and childish hero/villain dichotomy.
    Do these look superheroic:



    They took every code of the superhero identity and flipped them on their heads. They were hated by the normal populace, they fought other "heroes" and each other, sometimes to the death. They also killed and allied themselves with nefarious individuals. Not in an attempt to be edgy but because they were humane. And as an extension of that, they're enemies weren't villains, only had different views on how to achieve the same goals. Ironically, when Marvel tried to steal the formula and apply it to the Avengers they came off as irredeemably villainous.
    Love that that cover is just before Mutant Massacre, and literally half of that team gets hospitalised.

  11. #41
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    X-Men have never operated under the silly and childish hero/villain dichotomy.
    Do these look superheroic:



    They took every code of the superhero identity and flipped them on their heads. They were hated by the normal populace, they fought other "heroes" and each other, sometimes to the death. They also killed and allied themselves with nefarious individuals. Not in an attempt to be edgy but because they were humane. And as an extension of that, they're enemies weren't villains, only had different views on how to achieve the same goals. Ironically, when Marvel tried to steal the formula and apply it to the Avengers they came off as irredeemably villainous.
    Thats just not true. You are making wide generalizations that may apply to some characters but its a blanket statement that doesnt work. Lapsus brought up good examples of characters that were flat out villianous, who's goals did not allign with the X-men at all.

    As for superheroes, there have been several times when they have been. X-Factor was the best example when the O5 were actually celebrated as such. The government sponsored team that followed shared many similarities with the govenment sponsored Avengers. Cyclops reformed his team of X-men in Astonishing so they could operate and be viewed more like traditional superheroes as thats something he acknowledged had been lacking. And at least until Utopia, they were celebrated as such in San Francisco

  12. #42

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    XTerminators were passing as mutant hunters which is why they were celebrated. How r they a good example?

  13. #43
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    XTerminators were passing as mutant hunters which is why they were celebrated. How r they a good example?
    I said X-Factor, not X-terminators. They were not celebrated as mutant hunters but rather mutant heroes







    Parades were thrown for them, they were giving their own press conferences and had a growing fanbase that was interested in theri fashions and wanted to make them movie stars. X-Factor is the best example of them as mutant superheroes. They truly embodied that

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuck frump View Post
    X-Men have never operated under the silly and childish hero/villain dichotomy.
    Do these look superheroic:



    They took every code of the superhero identity and flipped them on their heads. They were hated by the normal populace, they fought other "heroes" and each other, sometimes to the death. They also killed and allied themselves with nefarious individuals. Not in an attempt to be edgy but because they were humane. And as an extension of that, they're enemies weren't villains, only had different views on how to achieve the same goals. Ironically, when Marvel tried to steal the formula and apply it to the Avengers they came off as irredeemably villainous.
    I think you're stating this very strongly and many will disagree, also I suspect you are trolling some, but I actually like a lot of what you wrote there ! Pretty much how I feel about them too, or how I'd like to feel about them.

    Other people are pointing things out but remember Claremont is the innovator with regards to XMen and their rebellious "breaking the genre conventions" these other authors like in the case of XFactor didn't have his same vision or wish to subvert.

    I still think with XFactor the human public's "good will" was founded off the perception of XFactor as "the good mutants" who had been betraying their own kind and siding with humanity first. Again, there are grey areas here and lots of room for different interpretations and views.

    Regarding whether or not mutant villains are truly evil, it depends on the author and time period. Characters change, and get reinterpreted, background expanded upon, evolution or deterioration in society can make them seem better or worse.

    I generally prefer to think of the characters as "characters" and not shove them into an exclusive Hero or Villain "box" as much. It frees your mind and lets you consider more aspects and allow for changes. You can view a lot of the heroes as dodgy and a lot of the villains as justified if you just don't assume so much and let yourself consider stuff holistically
    "So many killers... so much screaming... so many dying. I didn't know where to turn, who to help - which sentinel to stop first. And with the accusations of human judgement screaming in my ears... all I could think was that he was right. MAGNETO HAD BEEN RIGHT ALL ALONG!"

  15. #45
    Mighty Member gambitxremy's Avatar
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    I love that Moira is the true leader of the x-men and mutantkind

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