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  1. #76
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    Here's a thought :

    The book flipps back and fro between two marvel universes (of wich none need to be the 616 one) telling the same story. In the end these two universes merge, creating a new marvel universe having a Warlock from one reality in it and a Thanos from the other reality in it. This seems to be very much related to the incursions the marvel multiverse is currently suffering from only, in stead of being destroyed, both merge. Since this story is in the past ; might it be possible that this is the event that created the incursion problem in the first place ?

  2. #77
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    doubtful..though...Hickman would likely have his own explanation..egos are big in comics these days!

  3. #78
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    My Copy finally came in,

    Really was quite happy with this work. The art and story are quite well done. I can see how some may not like the work…it’s a throwback to older Starlin themes and it seems a very personal and maybe even bitter work ? It was well done. Personally, I didn’t feel the story was a rehash of all the older motifs. Sure you had Thanos and Warlock questing for some mythical infinite power spring, but the story had its own unique and viable tone. It was not as “trippy” as some people say, though with such a long break from Starlin, maybe I just enjoyed the trip.

    Maybe this kind of story doesn’t fly in the new instant gratification marvel where continuity doesnt seem to matter and writers don’t even resolve their own plot points, but I found it a refreshing infusion of the Grand Master of cosmic…

  4. #79
    Junior Member agrich's Avatar
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    I've mellowed some since my initial dismissal of this. I liked parts of it, and in general am glad to have read it.

    I kind of enjoy someone's take that this is Starlin putting away his favorite versions of the characters. It makes sense and fits with stuff he has done before (Thanos clones,,for example).

    I really hated both Annihilators series. I guess they come off bad here but they didn't come off great in their own ill-conceived books. Child Magus, enough said.

    I thought Starlin did some good stuff with Warlock in the 90s. The Soul World issues of Silver Surfer were fantastic. Gauntlet was great and War was really good. The first 15 issues of Infinity Watch, then most of the Blood and Thunder storyline (skipping over the horrible Crusade). I even liked Abyss and parts of his Thanos series.

    Anyway, my basic problem with this was I would like to see him write an Honest to goodness new Warlock-Thanos story. This just felt like a road he has traveled before, making me feel he doesn't really have anything new to say with these characters. I hope one day, when he and Marvel mend fences on use of Warlock again or whatever, seeing as they always do, he proves me wrong.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by agrich View Post
    I've mellowed some since my initial dismissal of this. I liked parts of it, and in general am glad to have read it.

    I kind of enjoy someone's take that this is Starlin putting away his favorite versions of the characters. It makes sense and fits with stuff he has done before (Thanos clones,,for example).

    I really hated both Annihilators series. I guess they come off bad here but they didn't come off great in their own ill-conceived books. Child Magus, enough said.

    I thought Starlin did some good stuff with Warlock in the 90s. The Soul World issues of Silver Surfer were fantastic. Gauntlet was great and War was really good. The first 15 issues of Infinity Watch, then most of the Blood and Thunder storyline (skipping over the horrible Crusade). I even liked Abyss and parts of his Thanos series.

    Anyway, my basic problem with this was I would like to see him write an Honest to goodness new Warlock-Thanos story. This just felt like a road he has traveled before, making me feel he doesn't really have anything new to say with these characters. I hope one day, when he and Marvel mend fences on use of Warlock again or whatever, seeing as they always do, he proves me wrong.
    You have some really good and fair criticisms of the book...i do think this will have an appeal to mostly Starlin enthusiasts...The work set about to do something very specific and it was not necessarily to tell a new Warlock-Thanos story...and it clearly did have a very personal mission for Starlin and his characters...maybe even something of a final protection of Starlin's own legacy like has been said "putting his versions away"..which personally is very ego centric and completely unnecessary..but maybe understandable?

    However like I said, I still liked the trip...

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by THANOSRULES View Post
    You have some really good and fair criticisms of the book...i do think this will have an appeal to mostly Starlin enthusiasts...The work set about to do something very specific and it was not necessarily to tell a new Warlock-Thanos story...and it clearly did have a very personal mission for Starlin and his characters...maybe even something of a final protection of Starlin's own legacy like has been said "putting his versions away"..which personally is very ego centric and completely unnecessary..but maybe understandable?
    Whether one could make an argument for egocentricism here (that wouldn't be altogether unfair), I kind of do think it was necessary.

    Marvel editorial and other writers have proven time and again that they will ignore Starlin's writings of Thanos -- Starlin being the guy who not only created him, but has written with him far more than anyone else -- when they need a cosmic menace, playing off the awe he instilled in "The Infinity Gauntlet" while glossing over the more than ten years of growing heroism that followed.

    So, what we had with Thanos over the past few years is infuriating out-of-character plot inconsistencies. That Starlin made the effort to craft a story that would give other authors a free pass to mess with Thanos and it not shit all over continuity is a lot clasier than how he could have gone about it.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by TresDias View Post
    Whether one could make an argument for egocentricism here (that wouldn't be altogether unfair), I kind of do think it was necessary.

    Marvel editorial and other writers have proven time and again that they will ignore Starlin's writings of Thanos -- Starlin being the guy who not only created him, but has written with him far more than anyone else -- when they need a cosmic menace, playing off the awe he instilled in "The Infinity Gauntlet" while glossing over the more than ten years of growing heroism that followed.

    So, what we had with Thanos over the past few years is infuriating out-of-character plot inconsistencies. That Starlin made the effort to craft a story that would give other authors a free pass to mess with Thanos and it not shit all over continuity is a lot clasier than how he could have gone about it.
    As a huge Starlin fan i thought he basically undid what he needed t with the late 90s stuff..the Annhilation stuff , starting with Thanos ongoing when Giffen took over and ending with Thanos Imperative does not at all need to be undone. If Starlin has a problem with that work...I would have an issue.

    But I dont know about Rising..this book didnt seem to address it.

    I never found the Infinity and "affinity with Earth" stuff (in regards to hickman written stuff) all that offensive...we still dont know the core motivations behind it...or what took place in the cancerverse. Assembled was a supremely concerning work (id imagine from Starlin's view as well as mine) though. I wouldnt have been surprised if that put Starlin in a panic mode as to what the heck Marvel was going to do with his character. Its crazy to think that Bendis writing doesnt even bother to respect Starlin. If bendis looks back, I just hopes he feels a bit ashamed about that piece...what I thought had a chance of being one of his opportunities for a good arc ended up being one of the biggest flops of his career. I do know Rising went in some directions Starlin did not seem found of.

    Based on what Starlin said and how they didnt tell him much about Infinity and the Cancerverse..its just a tough piece to place in actual relevance..and this must drive Starlin nuts and he doesn't really deserve that. Just should have never happened.

    It probably was something he needed as an end piece...and it did just that in some ways. But I really wonder where this next work will go? (if it sees print)
    Last edited by THANOSRULES; 09-08-2014 at 10:39 AM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakeon View Post
    I see Thanos orgasmic memes in our future.

    I know what you mean. The classic art style. The multiple use of the word myriad. Characters actually saying phrases like "Over yonder" and "he was a dandy" lol.

    Speaking of Adams choice of clothes, I didnt paticularly think NuAdams wardrobe was any better than the other cotumes hes worn.
    What myriad wonders occur over yonder?

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakeon View Post
    Which is why I enjoyed the mystic incarnation. He was hatched premature during conquest making him younger and as DnA said hr was akin to merlin to Peter Quills king arthur. It was a shame they wasted little time going the Magus route. I would have loved to see much more of him.
    I feel the same. I really like Warlock written as a young uncertain god with no pantheon trying to understand the reason for his existence and keep the universe safe. I love that he's both science and divinity together rather than the spiritual and science being in conflict with each other. I adore adoptive dad High Evolutionary and, if Marvel were smart, they'd have the Church vs High Evolutionary over Adam (a reborn artificial god created by science) on a semi-regular basis. Especially given High Evolutionary's role as Marvel's Dr. Moreau. Lots of smart, deep, amazing stuff to write about there.

    I love the Church being around and the commentary on the relationship between gods and worshipers.

  10. #85
    Amazing Member G Morrow's Avatar
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    I got this today -- thought it was better looking than a lot of Starlin's other recent work and I dug the explanation for the "inconsistencies" in Adam's appearance throughout the book -- but it seems to me the people who really like it read the 70s Warlock books and 90s Infinity stuff, and the people who really hate it read neither. Which is fair. Because 100 pages later I don't have any clear idea as to what Thanos and Adam's characters are. I've read other books with them and have a good idea already, but story and all that, Thanos is all over the place, and Adam is bland as vanilla. Story trumps character, I suppose. But I can see why some people would hate this because you have to want to care about what's going on (i.e. having read the earlier material), and if you don't there isn't much else to it.

    Still enjoyed it. Not sure if I'd try to get a friend who only knows the characters from the movies to bother with it though.

    Have a good day.
    John Cage

  11. #86
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    Yeah this was a very weird book.

  12. #87
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    I was only born in 1973 so I was not around for Starlin's seventies cosmic stuff and was only introduced to Thanos in Silver Surfer 34 and then the Thanos Quest (which is my favourite Thanos story). Tried reading some back issues but found it hokey and dated. Further Thanos was a one dimensional villain. Boring.

    I really enjoyed Infinity Gauntlet, ho-hum about War and Crusade (which felt a bit rushed and predictable).

    Enjoyed Starling's Infinity Abyss, Epiphany, Thanos:The End. Some great ideas which were executed well. Thanos, during these books, became a hero. Less about nihilism. He had a James Bond questing type quality in Thanos Quest and that continued in these books. The fun for me was seeing how this cunning, charismatic fellow would solve his quest against immeasurable odds. I should also include Ron Marz's Cosmic Powers story which pitted Thanos against Tyrant (on par with Galactus)

    That quality followed with the next 6 issues written by Giffen which I also enjoyed. Seeing Thanos confront and survive against the Beyonder was cool. The Fallen was a little underwhelming though. Importantly, Thanos was handled consistently.

    Annihilation's handling of Thanos was ok but I was puzzled as to why Thanos was assisting Annihulus. It was obvious that this Thanos was not written by Starlin and could not help think at the time what would Starlin make of this.

    Then there was Thanos Imperative and Infinity which to me was meh. Thanos back to one dimensional evil. I respect Thanos: Rising which suggested he was possessed to kill for Lady Death (similar motive and story in From Dusk till Dawn tv series).

    I was overjoyed when I learned about Starlin doing the Annual and this book. I really enjoyed the Annual as a blast from the past and for providing a fine set up for Revelation.

    This book is a weird one. After first reading I was underwhelmed with the conclusion.

    Pros:

    1. Starlin (as he has done before) has his beloved creation rationalise his mishandling by other writers (explanations re:Annihilation etc). No reference to Infinity though.
    2. Art is awesome though I prefer Ron Lim.
    3. Starts off epic with a conference between the cosmic powerhouses and the journey by Thanos throughout to solve the mystery is engaging enough until the end.


    Cons:

    1. Much ado about nothing and more of another set up story
    2. There is no third party higher menace (like Hunger, Tyrant, Egyptian dude, Magus, or Omega level threat) pulling some strings
    3. Thanos is not the underdog against insurmountable odds.
    4. The story takes a surreal late turn into the minds of Warlock and Thanos which left me feeling detached from the characters
    5. Starlin's agenda takes away story immersion. The story is only a vehicle to have a crack at previous writers and editors.
    6. I never liked Warlock who to me has been a boring do-gooder type but at least during Infinity Watch he was dignified. This Warlock has a different personality.
    7. Thanos at times seems very different and says some lines which are uncharacteristic. The orgasm line when he smashes Ronin for instance. I prefer Thanos when he fought Champion in Thanos Quest than the one fighting the Annihilators in this book.

    Conclusion:

    Interesting but not essential at this time though this story may get better with future stories. Nothing really happens which feels that important. There is some interesting explanation of how Thanos was treated previously by other writers. It left me more interested in what lies ahead.

    The more I think about it and read comments on this board the more the book seems to me less about Thanos and the Marvel Universe and more an agenda by Starling to have a crack at the editors and previous writers who he feels has mishandled his creation. Starlin cherishes his Thanos and has an axe to grind with how Thanos has been becoming more one-dimensional again.

    I recall that in the Marvel Universe the power above Living Tribunal is the One Above All (Stan Lee). In this story the powers above Living Tribunal must represent the other writers and editors who in Starlin's view (and in some cases my view too!) that have mishandled his beloved creation.

    So this 100 page book is a reboot of Thanos. I'd rather Starlin have spent maybe the first 5 pages doing the reboot and the next 95 telling an epic new story ...
    Last edited by Kunstpark_Ost; 09-07-2014 at 09:10 PM.

  13. #88
    Junior Member Ciriaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kunstpark_Ost View Post
    ...
    It was scary reading your post because your words could almost exactly have been mine, from your previous Thanos experiences down to this review (the exception being that I've always liked Adam).

    This book felt like a prequel, a set up for things to come. Which could've been fine for a $3 single issue but feels a bit wasted on a $21 Graphic Novel. I still enjoyed it, with trippyness, meta story and all, but for me it lacked impact.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kunstpark_Ost View Post
    I was only born in 1973 so I was not around for Starlin's seventies cosmic stuff and was only introduced to Thanos in Silver Surfer 34 and then the Thanos Quest (which is my favourite Thanos story). Tried reading some back issues but found it hokey and dated. Further Thanos was a one dimensional villain. Boring.

    I really enjoyed Infinity Gauntlet, ho-hum about War and Crusade (which felt a bit rushed and predictable).

    Enjoyed Starling's Infinity Abyss, Epiphany, Thanos:The End. Some great ideas which were executed well. Thanos, during these books, became a hero. Less about nihilism. He had a James Bond questing type quality in Thanos Quest and that continued in these books. The fun for me was seeing how this cunning, charismatic fellow would solve his quest against immeasurable odds. I should also include Ron Marz's Cosmic Powers story which pitted Thanos against Tyrant (on par with Galactus)

    That quality followed with the next 6 issues written by Giffen which I also enjoyed. Seeing Thanos confront and survive against the Beyonder was cool. The Fallen was a little underwhelming though. Importantly, Thanos was handled consistently.

    Annihilation's handling of Thanos was ok but I was puzzled as to why Thanos was assisting Annihulus. It was obvious that this Thanos was not written by Starlin and could not help think at the time what would Starlin make of this.

    Then there was Thanos Imperative and Infinity which to me was meh. Thanos back to one dimensional evil. I respect Thanos: Rising which suggested he was possessed to kill for Lady Death (similar motive and story in From Dusk till Dawn tv series).

    I was overjoyed when I learned about Starlin doing the Annual and this book. I really enjoyed the Annual as a blast from the past and for providing a fine set up for Revelation.

    This book is a weird one. After first reading I was underwhelmed with the conclusion.

    Pros:

    1. Starlin (as he has done before) has his beloved creation rationalise his mishandling by other writers (explanations re:Annihilation etc). No reference to Infinity though.
    2. Art is awesome though I prefer Ron Lim.
    3. Starts off epic with a conference between the cosmic powerhouses and the journey by Thanos throughout to solve the mystery is engaging enough until the end.


    Cons:

    1. Much ado about nothing and more of another set up story
    2. There is no third party higher menace (like Hunger, Tyrant, Egyptian dude, Magus, or Omega level threat) pulling some strings
    3. Thanos is not the underdog against insurmountable odds.
    4. The story takes a surreal late turn into the minds of Warlock and Thanos which left me feeling detached from the characters
    5. Starlin's agenda takes away story immersion. The story is only a vehicle to have a crack at previous writers and editors.
    6. I never liked Warlock who to me has been a boring do-gooder type but at least during Infinity Watch he was dignified. This Warlock has a different personality.
    7. Thanos at times seems very different and says some lines which are uncharacteristic. The orgasm line when he smashes Ronin for instance. I prefer Thanos when he fought Champion in Thanos Quest than the one fighting the Annihilators in this book.

    Conclusion:

    Interesting but not essential at this time though this story may get better with future stories. Nothing really happens which feels that important. There is some interesting explanation of how Thanos was treated previously by other writers. It left me more interested in what lies ahead.

    The more I think about it and read comments on this board the more the book seems to me less about Thanos and the Marvel Universe and more an agenda by Starling to have a crack at the editors and previous writers who he feels has mishandled his creation. Starlin cherishes his Thanos and has an axe to grind with how Thanos has been becoming more one-dimensional again.

    I recall that in the Marvel Universe the power above Living Tribunal is the One Above All (Stan Lee). In this story the powers above Living Tribunal must represent the other writers and editors who in Starlin's view (and in some cases my view too!) that have mishandled his beloved creation.

    So this 100 page book is a reboot of Thanos. I'd rather Starlin have spent maybe the first 5 pages doing the reboot and the next 95 telling an epic new story ...
    Nice review, we pretty much agree. Book is mainly for Starlin completists...its such a good point you make about how the book could have been better. Starlin could have just done the reboot quicker and told a more solid story with the rest of the work..

    I can certainly see how the ego of the message of this book could cool some..I find it funny though.

  15. #90
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    I thought the OGN was interesting. And it left you with thoughts to ponder

    Pros
    Starlin is back
    Thanos is confronted by the Annihilators
    It’s COSMIC!

    Cons
    Starlin may be constrained by Marvel as he made strong efforts to adapt to present continuity
    The read can be confusing as scenes switch between Thanos and his alternate reality (AR) counterpart

    Thoughts
    Thanos achieves balance by merging with his AR counterpart. While Thanos exhibited better control over forcefields, and can now perceive death it’s unclear what other power/perceptions Thanos may have gained with the merger
    A more powerful AR Adam Warlock is in our universe--Especially when he can oneshot the Silver Surfer
    Thanos shows Gladiator respect (Removing the best leader\warrior on the Annihilators who is also "Superman" is always a good idea).
    Last edited by R-prime; 09-17-2014 at 12:48 AM. Reason: After rereading determined 616 Thanos is dominate

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