Lois Lane #4 Preview/Spoiler Discussion

[Superlad93]

But like, I don't get it. Where is this "may not see you again" coming from? Where is that said or even implied? Rucka and Bendis, in both the comics and interviews, have done nothing but make clear that an appropriate comparison for Jon's relationship to the Legion would be to compare it to going off to college/university. And I mean.....isn't it a thing to say goodbye to your parents before you go to college? And because it's "college" one can assume there will be "between semester breaks", holidays, and just the occasional random weekend visit because your homesick, wanna wash your clothes, and get some home cooking in your belly. I mean, Bendis even says that they will be going back and forth between the present and the future. Also it's confirmed that Damian will be visiting. So, I don't get how this is "nice knowing you"?

Anyways, great issue as usual. The Lois and Jon stuff navigated their voices really well, and the pride and love both have for one another was great. That Checkmate stuff has me super interested, and the Question stuff had more more interested than I thought it would. Also big shout out to the art. Good lord. Jon's speed feat on the first page was beautifully rendered. Moved so fast that he left the water that was on him behind in a perfect afterimage drying himself. And 4 am pizza and "you're my hero" made me smile.

[K. Jones]

I knew Vic Sage is a reporter so there was that connection but it didn't quite click with me until I saw it in motion what his relationship to Lois might be like personally. Man though, they are just perfect allies.

Oh, what else? Lois's talk to Montoya was funny because it was really good and relevant but also was definitely like Rucka directly telling us the level of decompression this story is going to have when it comes to parceling out answers for us. Pretty meta. But I thought it was funny, too, in that way. Montoya is like us, she really wants answers like ... NOW ... about how this is what it is.

Is Lois's implication that she and Charlie are the only TWO people in the universe that know how Charlie is back? I believe so. But then again he's so freaking vague that it's possible he doesn't know how he's back, either. But he could also know full well and just be using his vagueness to get Montoya to ask the right questions. That's also his style. So all that's good - the story has a tacit and an implicit promise on answering those mysteries while also cleverly incorporating Lois and the reporter plots and the stuff she's working on.

Bigger question for me this issue is "What the hell was going on with that Checkmate? spy and the magic seal with OMEGA LEVIATHAN written on it"?

Putting the word OMEGA next to the word LEVIATHAN and having stuff strewn about that resembled CRIME BIBLE stuff ... with a person who may or may not have been implying a Checkmate connect ... kind of makes the mind race and race hard. Leviathan already had a tacit connection to Omega in the form of Darkseid's influence (Final Crisis, R.I.P. via Doctor Hurt, the Omega Adapter, and the Barbatos connection - really esoteric cosmic shenanigans and retconspiracies, basically) and Talia's acting out-of-character during INCORPORATED because she was basically "a woman possessed" but you know ... literally. She was Barbatos-infected. It was never spelled out purely but come on ... in the final duel to the death in the Bat-Cave she was wearing a Red Queen version of Doctor Hurt's black bat masquerade costume. Or the very same costume. Whichever. She wasn't that deep in the Crime Bible hijinx but a lot of it was running parallel to her in a big way and was still factoring into the story while all that was going on. Revelations during Final Crisis, Montoya running with the Incorporated crew later, and all of the Batwoman stuff, Intergang and Mannheim, and implicit connections to certain characters that popped up in Morrison's run (Old King Coal being a Crime Biblist).

Anyway avoiding overcomplicating the subject here ...

[manwhohaseverything]

But like, I don't get it. Where is this "may not see you again" coming from? Where is that said or even implied? Rucka and Bendis, in both the comics and interviews, have done nothing but make clear that an appropriate comparison for Jon's relationship to the Legion would be to compare it to going off to college/university. And I mean.....isn't it a thing to say goodbye to your parents before you go to college? And because it's "college" one can assume there will be "between semester breaks", holidays, and just the occasional random weekend visit because your homesick, wanna wash your clothes, and get some home cooking in your belly. I mean, Bendis even says that they will be going back and forth between the present and the future. Also it's confirmed that Damian will be visiting. So, I don't get how this is "nice knowing you"?

Anyways, great issue as usual. The Lois and Jon stuff navigated their voices really well, and the pride and love both have for one another was great. That Checkmate stuff has me super interested, and the Question stuff had more more interested than I thought it would. Also big shout out to the art. Good lord. Jon's speed feat on the first page was beautifully rendered. Moved so fast that he left the water that was on him behind in a perfect afterimage drying himself. And 4 am pizza and "you're my hero" made me smile.

It felt hollow for me. I don't know And the whole pa thing didn't help either. It is just blah! I felt like was reading two characters for the first time. A strange mother talking to his college year old kid who i equally didn't know. I have no connection to either of them to feel anything. It was boring schlock.

I mean, what you said would work if this was normal send of son by mother. But it isn't. for lois this was her 10 year old kid that went to school last week. Now he is 17 year old that wants to leave. She has no problem taking all this information in. She takes this all in strides . She does it like nothing aaand she "understands" jon going to whatever again with no problems as well. I saw no hint of possessiveness or protectiveness from lois.this emphasised my feeling of reading unknown characters further.

This is basically equivalent to wonderwoman speech in rebirth regarding her "easy" relationship with new52 superman. A Pointless explanation/exposition for a "all new all different" status quo,which nobody is asking for. We know there is a new direction happening . Just get move on. Wasting a limited series like lois lane for this is absolutely stupid.

Look, i don't know what they're planning. From what i read it felt like a goodbye till the next crisis which will erase the parent - child relationship. Regardless, i don't care. It is besides the point if jon sticks around or not. All i am saying is that this should be tackled somewhere else. This isn’t connected to the plot of this book.

[Rakzo]

This was good. I like how Rucka plays with what happened during the original 52 maxiseries as a mystery and he's not afraid to touch some convoluted aspects like the death of Vic and how Renee doesn't remember much of her past because retcons.

Although there's some pretentious stuff at the end with Lois exploring the theme of truth that doesn't offer anything insightful in the slightlest and mostly seems like padding.

Good art. Solid aside from some issues.

[Blue22]

I never really got the impression that Jon doesn't think he'll ever see his parents again. If that was the case, I'd hope he'd turn the Legion offer down. It's not even like they Lois and Clark should miss him this time. Given that this is time travel, he could very well be gone for another seven years and then just go back in time to the very moment he left.

That said, while I did really love the Lois/Jon moment in this issue, it is kinda disappointing that Lois was just immediately on board with this after the last time she let Jon leave to parts unknown, with someone she doesn't know. A little hesitation would have been nice. Even if she knew she, ultimately, couldn't stop him. Anything would have been better than "*sigh* this must be what it's like when a kid goes to college." No Lois! Your kid was a literal kid, like a month ago! Show some concern!

[Superlad93]

I mean, what you said would work if this was normal send of son by mother. But it isn't. for lois this was her 10 year old kid that went to school last week. Now he is 17 year old that wants to leave. She has no problem taking all this information in. She takes this all in strides . She does it like nothing aaand she "understands" jon going to whatever again with no problems as well. I saw no hint of possessiveness or protectiveness from lois.this emphasised my feeling of reading unknown characters further.

But it's not normal, and that's the point. That's why the comparison is a comparison, and not specifically what is going down. It's still clearly a lot to take in for her, and Jon knows this (thus why he had such obvious trepidation when broaching the subject), but for her and her family it comes down to doing the most good that you can, and they have an well of faith in what their all capable of, and what their family can weather. It's gonna be weird and sometimes not comfortable, but their family operates on a higher frequency than any other that would have folded under these conditions.

I mean, this is in the same book where Lois is being shot at, employing super heroes, and weathering the verbal slings and arrows directed towards her for "cheating" on her husband. Any other family folds under these conditions. The Kents do what needs to be done, and they have faith that their strange little family can handle it.

All i am saying is that this should be tackled somewhere else. This isn’t connected to the plot of this book.

This makes no sense to me, especially when I recall you past events. Not too long ago weren't you just complaining about how due to the fact Adventures of Super Sons didn't feature the boys family it was a bust and felt disconnected? That was a 12 issue mini too, dude. It's a book about Lois Lane, and Lois Lane is married with a kid that's going through a lot right now. She has a solo book and the opportunity to get some one-on-one time with her kid, and I'm glad it was taken. I like this way more than relegating it to one of the Superman books where Clark and Jon will likely take priority.

[Blue22]

I actually love discussions like this because that is a good way to look at it. Different perspectives are nice. Especially since I feel the exact opposite. From a storytelling perspective...I wanna see them fold...and recover, obviously, but I wanna see that breaking point that honestly should have been reached a while ago.

It's nice that Lois and Clark have been taking all of these awful things happening to them in stride but... that's kinda boring. Especially in regards to their kid (who they just got back and who they've missed out on raising through what's usually the most important and difficult period of a child's life) now leaving them again. Bendis said what happened to Jon would be some huge source of drama and anguish for his parents (and it should be. It was 100% their fault. You could even argue Lois is even more to blame) but...we haven't really seen that. Unless most of it is internal (in which case, we may never see it) they've just sorta been shrugging off something that shouldn't be shrugged off.

Like...no Bendis. You made this mess. Now do something with it. Give me a reason to think everything happening to Jon and his family right now couldn't have still happened if he was still a kid.

[Superlad93]

I recall Bendis saying that this stuff with Jon will always be something Clark and Lois have to keep reminding themselves that it's proof of him being a good kid and them doing right by him. So, I'm down for that being harder on some days than others, and we've seen Lois put on a brave face about all of this while freely admitting that this is extremely hard, and Clark has kind of worn his emotions regarding all of this in plain view.

That said, I'd rather they ultimately stay strong as a family even if their shape isn't so traditional. The sentiment of a husband trusting a wife so completely, and of parents respecting their kid as a budding adult with their own ideas and feelings is a great message to have. For me, that last part is encapsulated in the forming of the United Planets. Jon's voice was heard and amplified by his father's when he could've bushed off his simple suggestion as the ideas of a know-nothing teenager. He wasn't humoring the boy. He looked at it as a genuine idea, and in today's day and age seeing powerful things like young Greta Thunberg's speech, it is totally in step.

And in Lois' case, I love how this is such a contrast to what she had with her father. She had to lie, sneak around, and ultimately cut herself off from her father because of his condescending and oppressive nature. In Action Comics 1007 (I think) she specifically says that she wants to do everything in her power to make sure that she doesn't cultivate the same sort of relationship with her son. Lois and Clark can try to put him in a box that they understand, but that's a disservice to him as a person. He lived those years, and they have to take that into account because it's not their life, it's his, and he's still got a lot more living to do.

[manwhohaseverything]

But it's not normal, and that's the point. That's why the comparison is a comparison, and not specifically what is going down. It's still clearly a lot to take in for her, and Jon knows this (thus why he had such obvious trepidation when broaching the subject), but for her and her family it comes down to doing the most good that you can, and they have an well of faith in what their all capable of, and what their family can weather. It's gonna be weird and sometimes not comfortable, but their family operates on a higher frequency than any other that would have folded under these conditions.

I mean, this is in the same book where Lois is being shot at, employing super heroes, and weathering the verbal slings and arrows directed towards her for "cheating" on her husband. Any other family folds under these conditions. The Kents do what needs to be done, and they have faith that their strange little family can handle it.

Look, i can't relate to lois as a mother or jon as anything anymore. None of this makes any emotional sense to me. It is humanly impossible for anyone to take this in like lois does in the books without any outbursts.mothers are possessive. especially, if the kid is 10 year old that became 17 year old in days. "Doing good" thing just doesn't cut it.Nobody will let go of their son to wherever after what jon went through. These reactions are just idiotic explanations for getting the characters where they want. Instead of having the stories naturally getting the characters to a point.

So, i would have appreciated them sparing me the unneeded and unasked for exposition/explanation just move characters like check pieces to their new positions. This is the second time i have been reading this kind of nonsense. As if superwonder relation was easy or jon-lois relation is this easy going. I mean, this is lois "the protective" lane.

[manwhohaseverything]

This makes no sense to me, especially when I recall you past events. Not too long ago weren't you just complaining about how due to the fact Adventures of Super Sons didn't feature the boys family it was a bust and felt disconnected? That was a 12 issue mini too, dude. It's a book about Lois Lane, and Lois Lane is married with a kid that's going through a lot right now. She has a solo book and the opportunity to get some one-on-one time with her kid, and I'm glad it was taken. I like this way more than relegating it to one of the Superman books where Clark and Jon will likely take priority.

Yes, by having them as part of the plot like the talia arc where lois was being targeted.jon is entirely disconnected to whatever is going on. If they had jon be part of the plot i would have no problem.

[Superlad93]

Yes, by having them as part of the plot like the talia arc where lois was being targeted.jon is entirely disconnected to whatever is going on. If they had jon be part of the plot i would have no problem.

But you see my point, yes? Lois Lane is a 12 issue mini that has had appearances by Clark, Jon, and Perry because that acknowledges her world in her book.

[Konja7]

But you see my point, yes? Lois Lane is a 12 issue mini that has had appearances by Clark, Jon, and Perry because that acknowledges her world in her book.

The point is manwhohaseverything doesn't enjoy the current interactions between Lois and Jon, because he fell their interactions are forced and false.

Even if you like to see characters with theirs families, that does not mean that you would like to see them written in certain ways.

[manwhohaseverything]

The point is manwhohaseverything doesn't enjoy the current interactions between Lois and Jon, because he fell their interactions are forced and false.

Even if you like to see characters with theirs families, that does not mean that you would like to see them written in certain ways.

Precisely, jon hasn't been with his mother for years. And reverse is true for lois. It has only been a few weeks since he saw his 10 year old. Who now is 17 year old. This interaction should be complicated, not this damn easy.
On top of that they haven't defined this jon as a character nor his relationship to lois.Jon has no plot relevance other than a cameo. This would have worked better with jon leaving a letter to lois and lois crying/distraught after finding it. Instead of this nonsense.it would have added to the internal struggle lois was going through already with cheater accusations.

[Superlad93]

The point is manwhohaseverything doesn't enjoy the current interactions between Lois and Jon, because he fell their interactions are forced and false.

Even if you like to see characters with theirs families, that does not mean that you would like to see them written in certain ways.

I get that loud and clear, and MWHE is totally entitled to feel the way they feel on that. That's not what I brought up. That's not really an opinion that needs to be argued or defended. What I'm bringing up is the act of a solo, even a mini, acknowledging the world of that character. So I can comprehend that MWHE would see it as waste of time because their dissatisfaction with the direction, but it makes no sense when it's presented as the idea of wasting time because the character (in this case Jon) showed up at all. It is a topic and character that's deeply relevant to our main character, and ultimately our main character is the story given how character driven this book is.

Does that clear up my point?

[Konja7]

I get that loud and clear, and MWHE is totally entitled to feel the way they feel on that. That's not what I brought up. That's not really an opinion that needs to be argued or defended. What I'm bringing up is the act of a solo, even a mini, acknowledging the world of that character. So I can comprehend that MWHE would see it as waste of time because their dissatisfaction with the direction, but it makes no sense when it's presented as the idea of wasting time because the character (in this case Jon) showed up at all. It is a topic and character that's deeply relevant to our main character, and ultimately our main character is the story given how character driven this book is.

Does that clear up my point?

You mean that the appearance of a character not connected to the story of a mini, but connected to the life of the main character is not inherently a waste of time. I think you are right.


However, our reception of that scene will be affected by our feelings towards that relationship.

If you like these interactions, it would be a enjoyable moment.

If you do not like these interactions, you will only feel that it is a waste of time from a limited space.