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  1. #136
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Wonder Woman
    Etta Candy
    Steve Trevor
    Donna Troy
    Artemis
    Heroic Perez Hercules
    Peng Deilan
    Sargon the Sorcerer*
    I Ching
    Zephyr the Wonder Bird

    Recurring Allies:
    Mala
    The Queen
    Mister Genie
    Jumpa the Kanga

    My first list didn't include Peng.

    *At this point, I give up on Olympians and Wonder Men, who typically wind up being villanized by writers or attacked by fans. Diana's brother-figure can be a previously created, moderately known, male superhero - Sargon - with a very defined power-set, that's NOTHING like Diana's. Sargon the Sorcerer, a Sensations Comics hero, will play Guardian to Diana's Superman...the Question to her Batman. Being a sorcerer, he poses no threat of out-wondering Wonder Woman ..and might be cautiously, reluctantly embraced by fans.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 08-23-2020 at 09:08 AM. Reason: clarity, sp

  2. #137
    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    Wonder Woman
    Etta Candy
    Steve Trevor
    Donna Troy
    Artemis
    Heroic Perez Hercules
    Peng Delian
    Sargon the Sorcerer*
    I Ching
    Zephyr the Wonder Bird

    Recurring Allies:
    Mala
    The Queen
    Mister Genie
    Jumpa the Kanga

    My first list didn't include Peng.

    *At this point, I give up on Olympians and Wonder Men, who typically wind up being villanized by writers or attacked by fans. Diana's brother-figure can be a previously created, moderately known, male superhero - Sargon - with a very defined power-set, that's NOTHING like Diana's. Sargon the Sorcerer, a Sensations Comics hero, will play Guardian to Diana's Superman...the Question to her Batman. Being a sorcerer, he poses no threat of out-wondering Wonder Woman ..and might be cautiously, reluctantly embraced by fans.
    The only wonder-man that is criticized is Jason. You shouldn't give up on that idea just because you put all your money on one bad investment. Warkiller is Bi and very masculine, fans like him, problem is DC hasn't touched him since Simone left. Perseus is my favorite demigod who is masculine, the idealized embodiment of men, monogamous and wife loving, with powers similar to Diana, and he showed up once and got killed by Grail. That annoyed me. There is Ferdinand, who is a minotaur that happens to be a five star chef.

    I don't think Hercules should ever be a hero/ally. I didn't know about the Sorcerer, but maybe we could connect Diana to the greater DC magic universe by using Dr. Fate more often.
    Zaldrīzes Buzdari Iksos Daor

  3. #138
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Wonder Woman
    All-Star comics
    Sensation Comics
    Those are the books
    I'm placing Donna as the main character in All-Star (get it? Coz her costume is all... stars...)
    Cassie in Sensation
    The supporting Cass are Steve in Wonder Woman and the other two... Idk... I don't know them as much. You guys tell me.

  4. #139
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    The only wonder-man that is criticized is Jason. You shouldn't give up on that idea just because you put all your money on one bad investment. Warkiller is Bi and very masculine, fans like him, problem is DC hasn't touched him since Simone left. Perseus is my favorite demigod who is masculine, the idealized embodiment of men, monogamous and wife loving, with powers similar to Diana, and he showed up once and got killed by Grail. That annoyed me. There is Ferdinand, who is a minotaur that happens to be a five star chef.

    I don't think Hercules should ever be a hero/ally. I didn't know about the Sorcerer, but maybe we could connect Diana to the greater DC magic universe by using Dr. Fate more often.
    "... shouldn't give up on that idea just because you put all your money on one bad investment..." Very presumptuous...wrong, too.

    First of all, ..I think you've got things, backwards; Achilles (the Olympian) is the only Wonder-man, our community hasn't attacked. We've trashed Hercules (ignoring his redemption and helping the Amazons, in WOGs), trashed him again, as Champion...trashed Lennox, Orion - then, attacked pre-gay Jason. So, you're wrong; I'm giving up on the Wonder-man idea, because our community doesn't want one, ..including 'Warkiller'.

    And where is Achilles Warkiller, now? Hope you didn't put any money on him. Maybe, he's the bad investment.

    Some of us worry about a male Wonder out-wondering the Wonder Women. The solution is plugging in a guy, whose powers can't be easily compared to Diana's, ..like Sargon the Sorcerer or Boy Bigfoot...something like that. Sargon's sorcery distinguishes him enough from Diana and the girls, that fans shouldn't worry. Like TV's Andros, he will be the perfect brother-figure ally.

    I think the Wonder Woman Family needs weird heroes, more than it needs wonder-clones ..or Perseus [Perseus?!]. The Gateway City hero, Mister Terrific should be joined by Lady Danger, the swashbuckling swordsman and literal Gay Ghost, aviator hero Hop Harrigan, the Whip and Ferdinand the Kithotaur?
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 08-23-2020 at 09:25 AM.

  5. #140
    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    "... shouldn't give up on that idea just because you put all your money on one bad investment..." Very presumptuous...wrong, too.

    First of all, ..I think you've got things, backwards; Achilles (the Olympian) is the only Wonder-man, our community hasn't attacked. We've trashed Hercules (ignoring his redemption and helping the Amazons, in WOGs), trashed him again, as Champion...trashed Lennox, Orion - then, attacked pre-gay Jason. So, you're wrong; I'm giving up on the Wonder-man idea, because our community doesn't want one, ..including 'Warkiller'.

    And where is Achilles Warkiller, now? Hope you didn't put any money on him. Maybe, he's the bad investment.

    Some of us worry about a male Wonder out-wondering the Wonder Women. The solution is plugging in a guy, whose powers can't be easily compared to Diana's, ..like Sargon the Sorcerer or Boy Bigfoot...something like that. Sargon's sorcery distinguishes him enough from Diana and the girls, that fans shouldn't worry. Like TV's Andros, he will be the perfect brother-figure ally.

    I think the Wonder Woman Family needs weird heroes, more than it needs wonder-clones ..or Perseus [Perseus?!]. The Gateway City hero, Mister Terrific should be joined by Lady Danger, the swashbuckling swordsman and literal Gay Ghost, aviator hero Hop Harrigan, the Whip and Ferdinand the Kithotaur?
    I don't think its a question of the fans wanting it, I think its a question of if the character needs it.

    Lennox was forgettable, I have a particular distain for Nu52 characters so I'm glad he's gone. Orion treated Diana poorly and often made sexist remarks. They had one good moment about perfection, but that gets lost with all the other jerk things that he did. Not to mention that his sole reason for initially being in Azzerelo's head for that story was to pair them up as a couple. I already made my thoughts on Jason known on his thread. He was a terrible concept and even worse in execution. Hercules is an special type of character because, I don't believe a person can be redeemed after enslaving an entire civilization and being a known serial rapist, which isn't that far off from the in myth Herakles. He works great as a villain with very toxic ideas about what a man is.

    Olympian had similar powers to Diana, easily being in her league, yet he never felt shoved in. Robinson made several points about how much better Jason was and how he had more power than Diana. Its a fair point to worry that he would "out wonder her" he in fact was. He got huge chunks of the book to himself at times and even got his own issue. Robinson seemed to, rather blatantly, enjoy writing Jason over the main character of the book. All on top of the long lost brother soap opera trope and the chosen one trope. Olympian felt like an actual character that Diana could ally with from time to time, Jason's creation side lined the main hero to be a reactive participant in his journey.
    Zaldrīzes Buzdari Iksos Daor

  6. #141
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    I don't think its a question of the fans wanting it, I think its a question of if the character needs it.

    Lennox was forgettable, I have a particular distain for Nu52 characters so I'm glad he's gone. Orion treated Diana poorly and often made sexist remarks. They had one good moment about perfection, but that gets lost with all the other jerk things that he did. Not to mention that his sole reason for initially being in Azzerelo's head for that story was to pair them up as a couple. I already made my thoughts on Jason known on his thread. He was a terrible concept and even worse in execution. Hercules is an special type of character because, I don't believe a person can be redeemed after enslaving an entire civilization and being a known serial rapist, which isn't that far off from the in myth Herakles. He works great as a villain with very toxic ideas about what a man is.

    Olympian had similar powers to Diana, easily being in her league, yet he never felt shoved in. Robinson made several points about how much better Jason was and how he had more power than Diana. Its a fair point to worry that he would "out wonder her" he in fact was. He got huge chunks of the book to himself at times and even got his own issue. Robinson seemed to, rather blatantly, enjoy writing Jason over the main character of the book. All on top of the long lost brother soap opera trope and the chosen one trope. Olympian felt like an actual character that Diana could ally with from time to time, Jason's creation side lined the main hero to be a reactive participant in his journey.
    We didn't attack him, the way we attacked almost every other male superhuman companion of Diana's, ..but, there's no rallying cry for getting Achilles (Warkiller/Olympian) back in the comic. There just isn't, ..because he's boring - he's got a skinny, boring boyfriend and a stupid mansion - and we don't want him. Furthermore, his similar powers position him too easily to steal panel-time from Diana - to out-wonder Wonder Woman. So, while some of us, not wanting to attack an LGBTQA hero, might choose silence on Olympian's presence in the comic, ..we're not exactly throwing him a ticker-tape parade, either.

    WW comic fans do NOT want a Wonder-man, ..full-grown, infant, teenaged, god, mortal, gay, straight...whatever. Call it misandry, over-protectiveness for Diana, narrative minimalism. Who knows why? We don't want a Wonder-man, who might be compared to Power Girl or Huntress, in the other comics.

    I agree with you on the solidity of Simone's Achilles, as a character - he really is something (except for that skinny realtor boyfriend). Gail built him, very well - solid origin, backstory, supporting characters, use in a story, etc - positioning him for a long life, as a comic superhero. To be fair, I think there are Achilles supporters, who are as excited about the social diversity he brings to the comic, as about what his gender diversity brings to a female-led superhero family. I think they also remain silent, understanding that their fellow fans do not want a Mr. Wonder, ..in any form, for whatever reason.

    I think what presently passes for a Wonder Woman family needs more wonder - weird, magical, awesomely powerful!

    To be fair, George Perez made Hercules (Herakles, in Gr.) an even stronger and more solid character, than Simone's Achilles, showing his journey from thuggery in the ancient world, punishment in the Underworld, redemption and forgiveness by the Amazons ..to standing beside them, as the world fell apart, in WOGs - honoring his oath that his power would be theirs to call upon, whenever they needed it, ..which we give him no credit for. I think we should ignore John Byrne's 'Champion' story arc and bring Hercules (a LGBTQA hero, since classical times) back in a big, imaginative way, with an important role to play in the comic, ..as one of Diana's most trusted companions. Why not bring Heroic Perez Hercules back, in a living marble body? Black marble, grayish blue or green marble, maybe? Sure he's the same mythical, magic superman, as before, ..but, with a twist that gives him a strange appearance and peculiar conditions or limitations on his powers.

    If writers choose to pair him, with a man - remember Hercules is polysexual - why not bring back Hylas, his companion from the Argo venture? Maybe, he meets somebody new in that Oregon town, Lexinor, ..somebody, who isn't a skinny realtor, with a pimp mansion. Maybe, they go on pulpy adventures, together, in the weird, exotic sorts of places that Wonder Woman used to go, in the 1940s.

    What if one of the Amazons, Magda from the TV show or whoever, was born, a purple Rottweiler, and served as one of Queen Hippolyta's elite guard, ..in a little green cape? What if the same Amazon was exposed to meteor radiation that changed her into a dog? Maybe, she was turned into a dog, saving the Queen from attack, by Circe! Maybe, she had all the cognitive and physical skills and training of her Amazon sisters, ..but, in a dog body! This is species diversity for the Wonder Woman family - why not?!

    I'm a fan...a reader, and I can see all of the innovative things you can do with the Wonderverse. Why isn't someone writing or editing the WW comic doing, what we are doing in this thread?

    We've got a serious deficit of imagination, where the development of the Wonderverse is concerned. It's probably pessimistic, but, I don't think it will ever have the sort of editorial/creative guidance and care that a Stan Lee, Bill Finger or Mort Weisinger invested in their respective comics, ..and that is a shame. It seems so unfair, even. Considering the phantasmagorical thrust of her creator, Dr. William Marston - even the weirdness of Robert Kanigher, who gave us Nubia, Mister Genie and Wonder Tot - there should be a continuation of the same, in the present day. Love them or not, Marston and Kanigher set a creative standard that modern WW creative teams have dropped, soiled and trampled upon.

    Male Wonders or no male Wonders, I think the WW comic needs a superhero family, with the most imaginative roster of superheroes, in comics.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 08-23-2020 at 04:38 PM. Reason: clarity

  7. #142
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    We didn't attack him, the way we attacked almost every other male superhuman companion of Diana's, ..but, there's no rallying cry for getting Achilles (Warkiller/Olympian) back in the comic. There just isn't, ..because he's boring - he's got a skinny, boring boyfriend and a stupid mansion - and we don't want him. Furthermore, his similar powers position him too easily to steal panel-time from Diana - to out-wonder Wonder Woman. So, while some of us, not wanting to attack an LGBTQA hero, might choose silence on Olympian's presence in the comic, ..we're not exactly throwing him a ticker-tape parade, either.

    WW comic fans do NOT want a Wonder-man, ..full-grown, infant, teenaged, god, mortal, gay, straight...whatever. Call it misandry, over-protectiveness for Diana, narrative minimalism. Who knows why? We don't want a Wonder-man, who might be compared to Power Girl or Huntress, in the other comics.

    I agree with you on the solidity of Simone's Achilles, as a character - he really is something (except for that skinny realtor boyfriend). Gail built him, very well - solid origin, backstory, supporting characters, use in a story, etc - positioning him for a long life, as a comic superhero. To be fair, I think there are Achilles supporters, who are as excited about the social diversity he brings to the comic, as about what his gender diversity brings to a female-led superhero family. I think they also remain silent, understanding that their fellow fans do not want a Mr. Wonder, ..in any form, for whatever reason
    This is incredibly untrue. There have been many fans calling for a widening of the Wonder family and who would like a Wonderman/Wonderboy character.

    What I (and some others) don't want is for this male character to outshine Wonder Woman like Jason did (the writer even agreed that he made Jason more powerful than Wonder Woman).

    It's the same thing that happened when a writer tried to make Supergirl more powerful than Superman; a lot of fans went nuts.

    WW fans are no different than fans of other 'original' heroes - sure, they want a solid Wonder family, but they don't want any of them to be greater than the original. This does go double for a male character due to the very nature of Wonder Woman, a character who is based on the idea of female empowerment.

    But to say that all fans don't want a man in the family is disingenuous at best.

  8. #143
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    To be fair, George Perez made Hercules (Herakles, in Gr.) an even stronger and more solid character, than Simone's Achilles, showing his journey from thuggery in the ancient world, punishment in the Underworld, redemption and forgiveness by the Amazons ..to standing beside them, as the world fell apart, in WOGs - honoring his oath that his power would be theirs to call upon, whenever they needed it, ..which we give him no credit for. I think we should ignore John Byrne's 'Champion' story arc and bring Hercules (a LGBTQA hero, since classical times) back in a big, imaginative way, with an important role to play in the comic, ..as one of Diana's most trusted companions. Why not bring Heroic Perez Hercules back, in a living marble body? Black marble, grayish blue or green marble, maybe? Sure he's the same mythical, magic superman, as before, ..but, with a twist that gives him a strange appearance and peculiar conditions or limitations on his powers.

    If writers choose to pair him, with a man - remember Hercules is polysexual - why not bring back Hylas, his companion from the Argo venture? Maybe, he meets somebody new in that Oregon town, Lexinor, ..somebody, who isn't a skinny realtor, with a pimp mansion. Maybe, they go on pulpy adventures, together, in the weird, exotic sorts of places that Wonder Woman used to go, in the 1940s.
    Hercules role in WW's mythos is best suited as a background lore villain and given how Hercules is largely still seen in heroic roles in other pop culture depictions, it's far more appropriate for him to be a villain given one of the basics of the franchise is a perspective flip on one of his myths.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    We've got a serious deficit of imagination, where the development of the Wonderverse is concerned. It's probably pessimistic, but, I don't think it will ever have the sort of editorial/creative guidance and care that a Stan Lee, Bill Finger or Mort Weisinger invested in their respective comics, ..and that is a shame. It seems so unfair, even. Considering the phantasmagorical thrust of her creator, Dr. William Marston - even the weirdness of Robert Kanigher, who gave us Nubia, Mister Genie and Wonder Tot - there should be a continuation of the same, in the present day. Love them or not, Marston and Kanigher set a creative standard that modern WW creative teams have dropped, soiled and trampled upon.
    I mean could get maybe get this if it was just Marston but Kanigher, his first era at least, seems to be largely seen as the nadir of the franchise isn't it?

  9. #144
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Hera can eat a baby (but didnt), and Cheetah can straight-up mass murder a bunch of random people. Silver Swan killed a family. Paula Von Gunther is a mass-murdering Nazi BM - all cool beans, with us, though.

    Forgiven.

    I think Achilles killer some soldiers or sank a destroyer...something, like that. S'all good. He can retire to Beverly Hills, with his boring, skinny boyfriend.

    But, Zeus, king of the Greek gods, ..Hercules, even with George Perez's blessing, Orion and Jason - beyond all redemption and editorial repair! We'll never accept them. Spin it, anyway you like, that's a vicious double standard, and it shapes who can and who can't be in the Wonder Family. So, why not Sargon the Sorcerer or some guy, with powers dissimilar enough from Diana's NOT to threaten out-wondering her?

    Again, ..I think what the WW family needs is imaginative characters and stories.

  10. #145
    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    Hera can eat a baby (but didnt), and Cheetah can straight-up mass murder a bunch of random people. Silver Swan killed a family. Paula Von Gunther is a mass-murdering Nazi BM - all cool beans, with us, though.

    Forgiven.

    I think Achilles killer some soldiers or sank a destroyer...something, like that. S'all good. He can retire to Beverly Hills, with his boring, skinny boyfriend.

    But, Zeus, king of the Greek gods, ..Hercules, even with George Perez's blessing, Orion and Jason - beyond all redemption and editorial repair! We'll never accept them. Spin it, anyway you like, that's a vicious double standard, and it shapes who can and who can't be in the Wonder Family. So, why not Sargon the Sorcerer or some guy, with powers dissimilar enough from Diana's NOT to threaten out-wondering her?

    Again, ..I think what the WW family needs is imaginative characters and stories.
    Those are all villains you listed there, not fam members.

    Swan is mentally unstable and actually just needs a form of specialized counseling. Cheetah is cursed, she almost always doesn't have any agency in her origins, Diana tries freeing her from it and then takes her to get help. Hera is a goddess that vastly out classes Diana on every possible level, what is Diana going do? and (almost) eating a baby is small pickings in Greek myth. I feel like there was a better way Orlando could have handled Warmaster but, we got what we got, I'm not too mad considering Orlando has a solid grasp on who Diana is.

    Is skinny an insult? so Achilles likes twinks, what does it matter? I bet Patroclus wasn't bulging with muscle.
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  11. #146
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    Hera can eat a baby (but didnt), and Cheetah can straight-up mass murder a bunch of random people. Silver Swan killed a family. Paula Von Gunther is a mass-murdering Nazi BM - all cool beans, with us, though.

    Forgiven.

    I think Achilles killer some soldiers or sank a destroyer...something, like that. S'all good. He can retire to Beverly Hills, with his boring, skinny boyfriend.

    But, Zeus, king of the Greek gods, ..Hercules, even with George Perez's blessing, Orion and Jason - beyond all redemption and editorial repair! We'll never accept them. Spin it, anyway you like, that's a vicious double standard, and it shapes who can and who can't be in the Wonder Family. So, why not Sargon the Sorcerer or some guy, with powers dissimilar enough from Diana's NOT to threaten out-wondering her?

    Again, ..I think what the WW family needs is imaginative characters and stories.
    Most of the ones you mentioned are villains, which even Hercules is still fairly egregious compared to them. Personally I think Cheetah works better as a character who Diana will probably never be able to redeem. Paula meanwhile I don't think has much of a place in modern Wonder Woman since her role has been taken over by others who don't have the Nazi baggage.

  12. #147
    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Most of the ones you mentioned are villains, which even Hercules is still fairly egregious compared to them. Personally I think Cheetah works better as a character who Diana will probably never be able to redeem. Paula meanwhile I don't think has much of a place in modern Wonder Woman since her role has been taken over by others who don't have the Nazi baggage.
    That's a cool concept too.
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  13. #148
    Spectacular Member donnafan's Avatar
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    Gail Simone recently tweeted that she "is ready" to write a Donna Troy comic. *Ahem* is DC listening?! Other than a Donna Troy ongoing or mini, I would really like to see the extended WW family in their own comic including: Cassie, Hippolyta, Artemis, Antiope, Philippus, Nubia, Amazons in general, Etta and the Greek Gods including the Titans of Myth (as either adversaries or allies). I think DC should revive Sensation Comics and have a revolving cast of Wonder Woman supporting characters that I've mentioned above. I'd love to read a book that had stories including: Amazons past/present, Etta/military story, Greek Gods doing what they do best- mess with humanity or, a supporting team-up story with Cassie, Donna, Artemis and/or Hippolyta. How cool would that be to see these strong women shine in their own stories? Each month can be a different focus or, maybe no more than a 3 issue story arc then, focus on the next character(s)/storyline. Like stand-alone issues.

  14. #149
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    Hera can eat a baby (but didnt), and Cheetah can straight-up mass murder a bunch of random people. Silver Swan killed a family. Paula Von Gunther is a mass-murdering Nazi BM - all cool beans, with us, though.

    Forgiven.

    I think Achilles killer some soldiers or sank a destroyer...something, like that. S'all good. He can retire to Beverly Hills, with his boring, skinny boyfriend.

    But, Zeus, king of the Greek gods, ..Hercules, even with George Perez's blessing, Orion and Jason - beyond all redemption and editorial repair! We'll never accept them. Spin it, anyway you like, that's a vicious double standard, and it shapes who can and who can't be in the Wonder Family. So, why not Sargon the Sorcerer or some guy, with powers dissimilar enough from Diana's NOT to threaten out-wondering her?

    Again, ..I think what the WW family needs is imaginative characters and stories.
    What many fans want is a well-written male family member and not some male-fantasy version of a Wonder-boy/man who is greater than Wonder Woman.

    Superman>Supergirl, Superboy, Kon
    Batman>Nightwing, Robin, Red Hood, Red Robin, Batgirl
    Flash>Kid Flash
    Green Arrow>Speedy
    Aquaman>Aqualad
    Wonder Woman>Donna, Wonder Girl

    In each of these cases, the elder mentored the younger family members.

    Achilles was a grown man and Jason was a Gary Stu of ridiculous proportions. Neither was mentored because, imo, it's something that male writers don't want to write; a male character who is trained by a female character. So instead we get mythic heroes who are older and more experienced than Diana (Achilles, Hercules), New Gods who don't belong in her book (Orion), a god who tried to rape her in Perez's run (Zeus) and a twin with more powers than she has and who gets the armor that gives him the power of any god who then vanishes and returns with full mastery of his abilities (Jason)

    Give me a male family member who is the equivalent in stature of any of the above junior family members and I'll be more open minded. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any case where a male character was junior to and mentored by a female character (I could be wrong, but I can't think of any)

    But stop trying to force massively powerful gods/demi-gods on us who already know their powers inside and out and/or who are more powerful than Diana.

  15. #150
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donnafan View Post
    Gail Simone recently tweeted that she "is ready" to write a Donna Troy comic. *Ahem* is DC listening?! Other than a Donna Troy ongoing or mini, I would really like to see the extended WW family in their own comic including: Cassie, Hippolyta, Artemis, Antiope, Philippus, Nubia, Amazons in general, Etta and the Greek Gods including the Titans of Myth (as either adversaries or allies). I think DC should revive Sensation Comics and have a revolving cast of Wonder Woman supporting characters that I've mentioned above. I'd love to read a book that had stories including: Amazons past/present, Etta/military story, Greek Gods doing what they do best- mess with humanity or, a supporting team-up story with Cassie, Donna, Artemis and/or Hippolyta. How cool would that be to see these strong women shine in their own stories? Each month can be a different focus or, maybe no more than a 3 issue story arc then, focus on the next character(s)/storyline. Like stand-alone issues.
    Any postor, who has been here for longer, than five seconds, can tell you I've been rallying for a Bidenesque two-comic solution for WW, forever. I'm on-board for all of the above ..except Cassie, who is ruined for me, now. The regular Wonder Woman comic for superheroics, and Sensation Comics, for myth-inspired adventures with the Amazons and gods, ..should cover all of the above.

    I hate what writers have done, with Cassie, since forcing her into Young Justice, a comic that I loved, before she and Secret ruined it for me.

    I really want a Wonder-animal, in the family, somewhere. I grew up, watching Krypto and Tusky, on the locally rerun Superman and Aquaman TV cartoons, ..and Wonder Dog, on Super Friends. It bugged me, a little, that WD had no connection to the Wonders; so, I'd like some genius to fix that, with a mountain of female, purple wonder-Rottweilers, in little green capes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Most of the ones you mentioned are villains, which even Hercules is still fairly egregious compared to them. Personally I think Cheetah works better as a character who Diana will probably never be able to redeem. Paula meanwhile I don't think has much of a place in modern Wonder Woman since her role has been taken over by others who don't have the Nazi baggage.
    Heroes or villains, we're ready to forgive the women in WW for everything. They get all kinds of excuses - crazy, cursed by the gods, gas, etc - while Hercules can't get one point for fighting beside the Amazons, in WOGs, ..written by WW comic godfather, George Perez.

    Something wrong, with that horse, Kemosabe.

    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    Those are all villains you listed there, not fam members.

    Swan is mentally unstable and actually just needs a form of specialized counseling. Cheetah is cursed, she almost always doesn't have any agency in her origins, Diana tries freeing her from it and then takes her to get help. Hera is a goddess that vastly out classes Diana on every possible level, what is Diana going do? and (almost) eating a baby is small pickings in Greek myth. I feel like there was a better way Orlando could have handled Warmaster but, we got what we got, I'm not too mad considering Orlando has a solid grasp on who Diana is.

    Is skinny an insult? so Achilles likes twinks, what does it matter? I bet Patroclus wasn't bulging with muscle.
    Okay...Silver Swan, the family-murderer, needs "special counselling", but, Orion should just go away, never to be forgiven or given a second chance. I don't think Orion is exactly the right fit for pop-ups in the WW comic, steering it to far into sci-fi ..and away from whatever a WW story is, ..but, I don't think he should be eternally damned or banished from the comic, forever, either.

    This is what I'm talking about, ..a double standard.

    As for Achilles's boyfriend? Well, ..Wonder Woman gets Steve; Batman gets Catwoman; Diana gets Colonel Steve! Hercules gets an Argonaut, Hylas, ..and Achilles gets a skinny, boring realtor and a pimp castle? Sorry...just seems uneven to me?

    Donna Troy used to be skinny. Nothing against skinny folk, over here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    What many fans want is a well-written male family member and not some male-fantasy version of a Wonder-boy/man who is greater than Wonder Woman.

    Superman>Supergirl, Superboy, Kon
    Batman>Nightwing, Robin, Red Hood, Red Robin, Batgirl
    Flash>Kid Flash
    Green Arrow>Speedy
    Aquaman>Aqualad
    Wonder Woman>Donna, Wonder Girl

    In each of these cases, the elder mentored the younger family members.

    Achilles was a grown man and Jason was a Gary Stu of ridiculous proportions. Neither was mentored because, imo, it's something that male writers don't want to write; a male character who is trained by a female character. So instead we get mythic heroes who are older and more experienced than Diana (Achilles, Hercules), New Gods who don't belong in her book (Orion), a god who tried to rape her in Perez's run (Zeus) and a twin with more powers than she has and who gets the armor that gives him the power of any god who then vanishes and returns with full mastery of his abilities (Jason)

    Give me a male family member who is the equivalent in stature of any of the above junior family members and I'll be more open minded. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any case where a male character was junior to and mentored by a female character (I could be wrong, but I can't think of any)

    But stop trying to force massively powerful gods/demi-gods on us who already know their powers inside and out and/or who are more powerful than Diana.
    "...stop trying to force...gods on us...?" Are you forgetting who made a Wonder Boy teaser-movie?

    I hear you, GF. Really, I do, ..but, I'm sick of trying to figure out who isn't Kryptonian or Donna-troy enough to be the fan-accepted dude in the Wonder Family. Drop a talking dog, a T-Rex or Wonder Spice-worm into the comic, ..and no one will care there aren't any guys, in the Wonder Family. I would welcome importing a wizard or some guy, with telekinetic powers, like Andros, for sporadic, infrequent team-ups, in high-stakes stories!

    So, who's in the family, at this count?

    Wonder Woman
    Etta Candy
    Steve Trevor
    Donna Troy
    Artemis
    Nubia
    The Queen
    Jumpa the Kanga


    Are the Wonders too much alike, to be interesting? Isnt Ninja just a black woman, in a Wonder-costume? That's lame, but, I think you can do interesting things, with them! You can make Nubia, a half-tornado - Jumpa, an ancient philosopher cenkanga. Some writer should be able to spike them up, a little.I

    The Wonder Family just needs some imagination.

    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 08-25-2020 at 07:37 PM.

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