Why Isn't Ares More Prominent?

[Agent Z]

When we get the news that Area is loose and headed for Ocean City, what should we be afraid he will do, beside looking like a Spartacus Vader? I have been reading this comic on and off for a long time, and I can't easily answer that question.

I think that is a HUGE part of his problem.

Ares, as Marston conceived him, used to preside over futuristic armed camps, rocket sleds and deadly energy weapons. He had the power to slip astral beings into the bodies of human beings. He was a cosmic threat as sure as Mongul, Darkseid or any other.

Now, he seems pigeon-holed...stuck in magic-oriented stories, and that's also part of his growth problem, because most of the DCU isn't magical. Editors asking comic writers to stop everything they're doing with Batman and Green Lantern and write a magic story, so they can use Ares...don't see that hapening. For that reason, alone...

I think Ares needs to be a cosmic supervillain, again. He needs to fit as easily into a sci-fi story, as a WW story.

That's an issue with editors not taking the magical side of the DCU seriously rather an issue with Ares himself.

As for why we should fear him, see the vision Diana showed in Perez's run where she finally defeated Ares. Or just look at how much chaos a god of war can wreak across the world in that run.

To the OP, the issue with Ares is DC doesn't take WW characters seriously outside of her book and that includes her villains. Personally, I'd make Ares a neutral character and replace him with Zeus, Heracles or Theseus as her main villain.

[Dr. Poison]

You'd think that, with a literal god of war as one of Diana's major adversaries, DC would try to position him to be their Loki. So, I'm just wondering why he hasn't been utilized more. Like, why hasn't he had his own series or been the big bad in a major event?

Perhaps DC doesn't want such a direct comparison to Loki. Circe is kind of filling the Loki roll currently in Justice League Dark. She also instigated War of the Gods and the all female hero/villain war in Phil Jimenez's run on Wonder Woman. I think it's rather safe to say that Circe is Diana's "Loki".

[kjn]

Lots of reasons.

Marston used him mainly as an instigator, and he and Diana seldom interacted directly. Instead it was his various lieutenants and underlings that dealt directly with Diana, and had the more memorable personalities. And as person running things behind the scene, Paula von Gunther was far more interesting.

Note that this was a problem that the ancient Greeks already had. Ares usually plays a rather minor role in most myths where he appears.

Later on we got the tradition that Ares was Diana's initial and first enemy when she got into Man's World, and that's not really a role suited for a long-term enemy. And the few attempts to rework him (like Pérez, or the way Jimenez used him in Gods of Gotham) didn't really make him more interesting. Azzarello's version didn't feel like Ares at all.

In some ways, I think Wilson had the most interesting take on Ares, since it not only built directly on Rucka's Rebirth run, but positioned him as a person stuck in his own prejudices and function, even when he wanted to appear more modern or "woke". But I think it'd be little more than an interesting experiment that won't be followed through now.

[AmiMizuno]

Hmmm. How can we get the Greek gods more in DC? I mean we have Shazam’s power.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Perhaps DC doesn't want such a direct comparison to Loki. Circe is kind of filling the Loki roll currently in Justice League Dark. She also instigated War of the Gods and the all female hero/villain war in Phil Jimenez's run on Wonder Woman. I think it's rather safe to say that Circe is Diana's "Loki".

Yeah, but even Circe is another example of a villain that should be more prominent, but isn't.

Though honestly, with Wonder Woman poised to become a hugely successful movie franchise because of the 2017 film and the upcoming sequel for next year and any future sequels set in the DCEU, now is the time for Wonder Woman's villains to start taking on a more prominent role in the DCU at large.

[Dr. Poison]

Yeah, but even Circe is another example of a villain that should be more prominent, but isn't.

Well, at least some writers have tried(or are trying in Tynion's case) to make her more prominent. Even though I'm not a big fan of public domain villains, I don't think this is just about Ares or Circe. None of Diana's villains get the same respect that Superman, Batman, or Green Lantern's do. The closest one to get that amount of respect is the Cheetah and even her portrayal has strayed quite a bit from writer to writer. Perez, Jimenez, Ross, and Johns all have made Cheetah out to be an alpha-level threat and then there are stories where she gets taken out by Catwoman or Green Arrow. I think it all boils down to Cheetah, Ares, and Circe being villains of a female superhero(Wonder Woman). If you think about it, there aren't any other female heroes(at least at DC) that have well-respected rogues galleries and that includes Supergirl and Batirl's villains that didn't get handed down from their male counterparts.

Thinking about other Wonder-rogues that haven't gotten the respect they deserve:


Queen Clean - An Atlantean monarch just like Aquaman and Mera with similar strength, an army at her command, and she often wields a trident from a god. She also led Villainy Inc.

Osira - Took down the Justice Society single-handedly.

Giganta - She was shown to be strong enough to immobilize Power Girl in Infinite Crisis.

Baron Blitzkreigh - Went up agains the Freedom Fighters and All-Star Squadron solo.

Aegeus - In addition to giving Wonder Woman a run for her money more than once, he's taken on Superman and the JLA(Orlando's run).

Dark Angel - Has fought both the Titans and the Justice Society.

Nuclear - Fought the All-Star Squadron solo.


Even though all of these Wonder-rogues have these significant accomplishments under their belts, they're not highly regarded by most writers or non-WW readers.

[Mel Dyer]

That's an issue with editors not taking the magical side of the DCU seriously rather an issue with Ares himself.

As for why we should fear him, see the vision Diana showed in Perez's run where she finally defeated Ares. Or just look at how much chaos a god of war can wreak across the world in that run.

To the OP, the issue with Ares is DC doesn't take WW characters seriously outside of her book and that includes her villains. Personally, I'd make Ares a neutral character and replace him with Zeus, Heracles or Theseus as her main villain.

I think the threat of Ares, like that of bad weather, is too broad to give readers the kind of thrill that supervillainy typically does ..or should. That he is also a magical being makes the threat of him doubly broad to define in a story. I'm not sure requiring GL or Superman editors to use him, as is, would solve that problem.

Quite literally, what is his treat? Will be cover the world with his alien armies? Rain bloodied corpses from the sky? When I think of Ares coming to my town, I, as a reader and WW fan, want to envision something specific, ..and thats going to take a REALLY good writer.

And yeah...I'm kinda stuck on his uninspiring appearance, which reminds me of that diminutive Martian from the Bugs Bunny cartoons. I think Ares' physical appearance needs a WTF factor. For me that's making him more inhuman, in appearance, like a giant, talking boat-thing (not a satyr)...literally, a giant, shaggy, demonic, goat monster, the size of bus. I can also imagine him, as a disembodied head, living in some fortress and surrounded by demon armies, on the planet Mars! That's my two cents, but, I'm sure there are other Imaginative ways to interpret him.

Ares needs some really imaginative writers. He's a monster, and I think that should be conveyed on every front. He needs to wow us, I think.

[Agent Z]

I think the threat of Ares, like that of bad weather, is too broad to give readers the kind of thrill that supervillainy typically does ..or should. That he is also a magical being makes the threat of him doubly broad to define in a story. I'm not sure requiring GL or Superman editors to use him, as is, would solve that problem.

Quite literally, what is his treat? Will be cover the world with his alien armies? Rain bloodied corpses from the sky? When I think of Ares coming to my town, I, as a reader and WW fan, want to envision something specific, ..and thats going to take a REALLY good writer.

And yeah...I'm kinda stuck on his uninspiring appearance, which reminds me of that diminutive Martian from the Bugs Bunny cartoons. I think Ares' physical appearance needs a WTF factor. For me that's making him more inhuman, in appearance, like a giant, talking boat-thing (not a satyr)...literally, a giant, shaggy, demonic, goat monster, the size of bus. I can also imagine him, as a disembodied head, living in some fortress and surrounded by demon armies, on the planet Mars! That's my two cents, but, I'm sure there are other Imaginative ways to interpret him.

Ares needs some really imaginative writers. He's a monster, and I think that should be conveyed on every front. He needs to wow us, I think.

He will literally cause the extinction of the human race if he gets his way. We saw that in the vision Perez showed and that was his goal in the WW movie. His threat level isn't difficult to understand, let alone because he's a magical being.

[Natamaxxx]

Well, at least some writers have tried(or are trying in Tynion's case) to make her more prominent. Even though I'm not a big fan of public domain villains, I don't think this is just about Ares or Circe. None of Diana's villains get the same respect that Superman, Batman, or Green Lantern's do. The closest one to get that amount of respect is the Cheetah and even her portrayal has strayed quite a bit from writer to writer. Perez, Jimenez, Ross, and Johns all have made Cheetah out to be an alpha-level threat and then there are stories where she gets taken out by Catwoman or Green Arrow. I think it all boils down to Cheetah, Ares, and Circe being villains of a female superhero(Wonder Woman). If you think about it, there aren't any other female heroes(at least at DC) that have well-respected rogues galleries and that includes Supergirl and Batirl's villains that didn't get handed down from their male counterparts.

Thinking about other Wonder-rogues that haven't gotten the respect they deserve:


Queen Clean - An Atlantean monarch just like Aquaman and Mera with similar strength, an army at her command, and she often wields a trident from a god. She also led Villainy Inc.

Osira - Took down the Justice Society single-handedly.

Giganta - She was shown to be strong enough to immobilize Power Girl in Infinite Crisis.

Baron Blitzkreigh - Went up agains the Freedom Fighters and All-Star Squadron solo.

Aegeus - In addition to giving Wonder Woman a run for her money more than once, he's taken on Superman and the JLA(Orlando's run).

Dark Angel - Has fought both the Titans and the Justice Society.

Nuclear - Fought the All-Star Squadron solo.


Even though all of these Wonder-rogues have these significant accomplishments under their belts, they're not highly regarded by most writers or non-WW readers.

Sadly, what Meredith Finch did to Aegeus will probably set him back another decade or two. Osira, however is pretty much a blank slate at this point, so her potential is limitless. It seems as though anytime Giganta shows up, she's already been beaten by Diana, though I did like the frenemy vibe depicted in her last appearance. I think an occasional run in as either friend or foe (hey, she just can't help herself!) would be a good use of her.

With the Alt-Righters and Nazis suddenly and terrifyingly re-emerging in the real world, I think it would definitely be relevant for The Baroness to make her modern day return. Wonder Woman is in sore need of a nazi or two to punch around in her book!

[Dr. Poison]

Sadly, what Meredith Finch did to Aegeus will probably set him back another decade or two. Osira, however is pretty much a blank slate at this point, so her potential is limitless. It seems as though anytime Giganta shows up, she's already been beaten by Diana, though I did like the frenemy vibe depicted in her last appearance. I think an occasional run in as either friend or foe (hey, she just can't help herself!) would be a good use of her.

With the Alt-Righters and Nazis suddenly and terrifyingly re-emerging in the real world, I think it would definitely be relevant for The Baroness to make her modern day return. Wonder Woman is in sore need of a nazi or two to punch around in her book!

Orlando's redeeming portrayal of Aegeus in Justice League was after the disastrous Finch remix so I think Aegeus is safe.

I would love to see Diana's Nazi villains make a comeback and have Diana given them the beatdown. Barorness Paula Von Gunther, Baron Blitzkreig, Red Panzer, Armegeddon, Gundra, and Zyklon all have cool designs and a good amount of potential for modern Neo-Nazi stories.

[AmiMizuno]

I feel that maybe Ares can get the JL together. I mean we have several different times the JL come together due to one of their enemies come together.

[Mel Dyer]

He will literally cause the extinction of the human race if he gets his way. We saw that in the vision Perez showed and that was his goal in the WW movie. His threat level isn't difficult to understand, let alone because he's a magical being.

Most of what you're saying is obvious, I think it doesn't change the fact that its a nebulous threat, without much specific to give it definition. I think it must ne very challenging to make such a broad, ill-defined threay interesting in a story, ..in a way that us human resders can find immediately riveting or terrifying.

It's like Ares announcing that he's coming to your town, right away, ..to do BAD, magic things.

That's alot of work for a writer to take on.

[Agent Z]

Most of what you're saying is obvious, I think it doesn't change the fact that its a nebulous threat, without much specific to give it definition. I think it must ne very challenging to make such a broad, ill-defined threay interesting in a story, ..in a way that us human resders can find immediately riveting or terrifying.

It's like Ares announcing that he's coming to your town, right away, ..to do BAD, magic things.

That's alot of work for a writer to take on.

It's no more ill-defined than the various "take over the world" schemes that various villains use. The way he goes about it will vary (like any other villain) but there is nothing nebulous about it.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I think the threat of Ares, like that of bad weather, is too broad to give readers the kind of thrill that supervillainy typically does ..or should. That he is also a magical being makes the threat of him doubly broad to define in a story. I'm not sure requiring GL or Superman editors to use him, as is, would solve that problem.

Quite literally, what is his treat? Will be cover the world with his alien armies? Rain bloodied corpses from the sky? When I think of Ares coming to my town, I, as a reader and WW fan, want to envision something specific, ..and thats going to take a REALLY good writer.

And yeah...I'm kinda stuck on his uninspiring appearance, which reminds me of that diminutive Martian from the Bugs Bunny cartoons. I think Ares' physical appearance needs a WTF factor. For me that's making him more inhuman, in appearance, like a giant, talking boat-thing (not a satyr)...literally, a giant, shaggy, demonic, goat monster, the size of bus. I can also imagine him, as a disembodied head, living in some fortress and surrounded by demon armies, on the planet Mars! That's my two cents, but, I'm sure there are other Imaginative ways to interpret him.

Ares needs some really imaginative writers. He's a monster, and I think that should be conveyed on every front. He needs to wow us, I think.

I think you make some really good points here. I will say again though that I don't think his appearance should be changed. Mostly because I like the Perez design, but also because I think the boat has probably sailed on a meaningful overhaul of his design. Anything new would be seen as a deviation on a norm that has become more or less iconic. I think the blue and black Greek armor has become as iconic to Ares as the green and gold look is to Loki.

But I really agree with your point about Ares needing to reclaim the mantle of a cosmic villain (as well as a magical one). In that regard, I think he would benefit from an Infinity Gauntlet-type story. People forget how that story was really what took Thanos from being just a Darkseid clone to one of the most important cosmic villains in the Marvel universe. So, yeah, I think doing something along those lines for Ares, where he quests after some vast cosmic or even magical power and eventually gets it and in the process brings together many of DC's heavy-hitting heroes to fight him, would be exactly what's needed to make him one of DC's premier villains. Its sort of what has been happening for Lex in Snyder's JL run.

[AmiMizuno]

Let's think of a storyline. What would Ares want? What if the world had something Ares wants? Using the animated movie. What if Ares needs the bracelets off? Also what if not world takes over but to take the souls of the best warriors. Just to see them fight?