Tim Drake...introduced too soon?

[CTTT]

I'm amazed how Tim Drake was able to become popular after he was introduced. I love him, he was the Robin that I read growing up, still think he's a great character. But I wonder why DC was in such a rush to introduce another character so soon after Jason Todd. Did they not trust that Batman would be on his own for a little while? Jason had just been brutally murdered by Joker, Bruce was in mourning. I'm not saying he shouldn't have had another partner but reading it again they should have waited a year probably two and then bring Tim in. Plus the way he was introduced, basically stalking Bruce and then pressuring Dick to be Robin again, and then begging Bruce after they fight Two-Face to take in is flimsy reasoning at best. He comes across as not bright and optimistic but rude and uncaring to Bruce's feelings and hesitation. Kind of like that bench player on the team who goes "COME ON COACH, PICK ME, PICK ME!"

[Swallowtail]

I'm amazed how Tim Drake was able to become popular after he was introduced. I love him, he was the Robin that I read growing up, still think he's a great character. But I wonder why DC was in such a rush to introduce another character so soon after Jason Todd. Did they not trust that Batman would be on his own for a little while? Jason had just been brutally murdered by Joker, Bruce was in mourning. I'm not saying he shouldn't have had another partner but reading it again they should have waited a year probably two and then bring Tim in. Plus the way he was introduced, basically stalking Bruce and then pressuring Dick to be Robin again, and then begging Bruce after they fight Two-Face to take in is flimsy reasoning at best. He comes across as not bright and optimistic but rude and uncaring to Bruce's feelings and hesitation. Kind of like that bench player on the team who goes "COME ON COACH, PICK ME, PICK ME!"

Because DC did not anticipate that killing Robin would get the kind of national exposure it did. Denny O’Neal describes it as his watershed moment for realizing how important comics were to people and also his frustrations at not getting people to understand they had not killed Dick Grayson, so ‘the real Robin’ was still alive. They got a call from their corporate overlords saying ‘we have millions of dollars of Robin lunch boxes and school bags. fix this, now.’ So they did.

Plus, you can’t replicate the anti-Jason sentiment that existed then today. He was genuinely considered a dud character by many people, and in the end there Starlin has worked hard to justify his death with his behavior. So, Tim was written specifically to be the anti-Jason, and appeal to the people who were reading comics, who in 1989 proportionally included a lot more thirteen year old fanboys. Plus, added bonus, they got Dick back in the batbooks.

Right now, ‘hey, let’s make the character more appealing by making him less of an underdog and more middleclass’ Would seem like a crazy plan, but back then it worked very well, because it was a different time and a different audience.

[Zaresh]

I'm amazed how Tim Drake was able to become popular after he was introduced. I love him, he was the Robin that I read growing up, still think he's a great character. But I wonder why DC was in such a rush to introduce another character so soon after Jason Todd. Did they not trust that Batman would be on his own for a little while? Jason had just been brutally murdered by Joker, Bruce was in mourning. I'm not saying he shouldn't have had another partner but reading it again they should have waited a year probably two and then bring Tim in. Plus the way he was introduced, basically stalking Bruce and then pressuring Dick to be Robin again, and then begging Bruce after they fight Two-Face to take in is flimsy reasoning at best. He comes across as not bright and optimistic but rude and uncaring to Bruce's feelings and hesitation. Kind of like that bench player on the team who goes "COME ON COACH, PICK ME, PICK ME!"

Merchandicing/derived products and producers probably wanted/needed to be sold/sell.

You have a trademark that sells, you use it.

Or at least that's my guess. I don't think the readers weighed a lot in the decision, weird as it may sound.

And then his book ended up being good. So it kept selling.

Edit: underdogs started to sell half way the 90's (edit: I think). Funny as it may sound, Jason lost his chance by dying. He would've made for a good kind of underdog-kid sidekick.

Tim was the enthusiastic normal kid who wasn't much of a sidekick most of the time as far as I've seen, more like a teen hero himself.

[Shadowcat]

Grant and Breyfogle planned on making Anarky the new Robin, but O’Neil and Wolfman has already started planning the creation of Tim.

[CTTT]

Wow, Anarky? That's....way out left field. He would have made Jason look like a sweet puppy dog by comparison.

[dietrich]

I'm amazed how Tim Drake was able to become popular after he was introduced. I love him, he was the Robin that I read growing up, still think he's a great character. But I wonder why DC was in such a rush to introduce another character so soon after Jason Todd. Did they not trust that Batman would be on his own for a little while? Jason had just been brutally murdered by Joker, Bruce was in mourning. I'm not saying he shouldn't have had another partner but reading it again they should have waited a year probably two and then bring Tim in. Plus the way he was introduced, basically stalking Bruce and then pressuring Dick to be Robin again, and then begging Bruce after they fight Two-Face to take in is flimsy reasoning at best. He comes across as not bright and optimistic but rude and uncaring to Bruce's feelings and hesitation. Kind of like that bench player on the team who goes "COME ON COACH, PICK ME, PICK ME!"

Money. The brief from Denny O'neil and Barbara Kesel to Marv Wolfman was to make a Robin who could be independent of Batman. A relatable solo star based on data collected over the years from the previous Robins. Incorporate what works and fix or discard what didn't.

It was nothing to do with Batman needing a sidekick or Batman needing Robin regardless of what was said in the comics.

I;'m not a fan of the way Tim was introduced or his origin. Batman had lost a son. He was grieving. Tim coming in uninvited, harassing these people and telling them what they need while canvassing for the role [on the low] was off putting.

It was arrogant, selfish and creepy.

How tactless, do you have to be to not let this family mourn sure [he wasn't aware that Jason was Bruce's kid but still]

Batman doesn't need Robin. Batman hasn't needed some random kid sidekick to keep him from the dark side. He has his values and his young sons. It's just a coincidence that Jason his son happened to to be Robin. Once Dick Grayson was introduced Batman had a reason to keep his darkness in check and a reason not to be careless/reckless. He was now a parent.

[batnbreakfast]

If Jason had lived after Death in the Family would he have retired? When the next Robin/Tim/Anarky was already being created?

[Zaresh]

If Jason had lived after Death in the Family would he have retired? When the next Robin/Tim/Anarky was already being created?

As far as I know, the plan was retiring him.

[Swallowtail]

Merchandicing/derived products and producers probably wanted/needed to be sold/sell.

You have a trademark that sells, you use it.


Edit: underdogs started to sell half way the 90's (edit: I think). Funny as it may sound, Jason lost his chance by dying. He would've made for a good kind of underdog-kid sidekick.

Tim was the enthusiastic normal kid who wasn't much of a sidekick most of the time as far as I've seen, more like a teen hero himself.

Underdogs have always been popular, and Tim himself is an underdog, just one more aligned with the sensibilities of the kids who were reading back then. Plus, they modelled him on Spiderman.

[Aahz]

If Jason had lived after Death in the Family would he have retired? When the next Robin/Tim/Anarky was already being created?

I think the original plan was to get rid of Robin completely.

I think Tim and Anaraky were not created untill after Jason death, because the higher ups wanted a Robin (because of the Lunch Boxes ...), I think if Jason had survived they would have had him back as Robin at some point for the same reason.

[Zaresh]

Underdogs have always been popular, and Tim himself is an underdog, just one more aligned with the sensibilities of the kids who were reading back then. Plus, they modelled him on Spiderman.

Hmmm, I keep seeing that Spiderman comparison, and I don't see it that much. It's like saying that every teenage hero with teenage problems is a Peter Parker. I don't know. Maybe things changed a lot since the 90's and the teen hero was way less common then, but I don't think there are so many similitudes between Tim and Peter, as a Peter Parker fan.

And Tim was an average guy, not an underdog. Similar, but not the same. Peter worked with the underdog trope more than Tim, as far as I've seem (Peter still does, funny enough, which is kind of ridiculous at this point).

[Swallowtail]

Hmmm, I keep seeing that Spiderman comparison, and I don't see it that much. It's like saying that every teenage hero with teenage problems is a Peter Parker. I don't know. Maybe things changed a lot since the 90's and the teen hero was way less common then, but I don't think there are so many similitudes between Tim and Peter, as a Peter Parker fan.

And Tim was an average guy, not an underdog. Similar, but not the same. Peter worked with the underdog trope more than Tim, as far as I've seem (Peter still does, funny enough, which is kind of ridiculous at this point).

It's not so much my opinion as it was Chuck's Dixon's well documented, stated intent when he set out to write Robin.

[Zaresh]

It's not so much my opinion as it was Chuck's Dixon's well documented, stated intent when he set out to write Robin.

I don't doubt it. I'm just saying it's not accurate as a comparison, and I mean it like an opinion (not a fact).

[scary harpy]

I think Tim's introduction so soon was an example of the folly of comic character death.

Every character is someone's favorite. Kill them off and, eventually, they return.

If Jason had been let to live, I think he would have eventually returned to being Robin. Tim Drake would have never been created. (Less complaints about too many Robins today.)

[Arsenal]

Had he lived, It’s possible they could’ve used Jason’s beating as an excuse to retool him into a more “fan friendly” version of Robin too.