“And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
I get that, but I defined it in that very narrow way in the context of why this 'win' did not feel 'earned'. That this comic book series did not tell that 'story' properly if at all. I also keep putting 'story' in quotes because I know I am referring to the conventional structure and not because I am trying to exclude other methods.
Still, the point really is that even if I did all that, that is my choice. If you disagree, then explain why you think Hickman managed to make this feel like a win, and how those elements of story are present but he has woven them throughout in different methods.
There is no such thing as a mutant as defined in the X-Books. They are a conceit designed to allow any reader to identify with their plight through analogy and metaphor. There is no single metaphor within the pages of the corpus of X-Books. Every one of us as individuals has a certain amount of privilege and corresponding lack of it, and as such we are all capable of both empathising with this kind of fiction as well as seeing the issues from more than one side or perspective. I am not making this as a dogmatic claim about race, creed, sexuality or any minority. In the case of your point about a blanket statement holding true I don’t see any logic to it that holds up to this perspective on X-Books.
“And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
Yes I acknowledge your quotes, but you were one of many making this point and it is a point that is inherently limited. This thread has seen people pull out their English Language credentials as a badge, to somehow discount Hickman’s chosen style of storytelling. That is a perspective that I believe needs challenging. The conventions of storytelling are far from universal and rigid.
Even by this question you are placing limits on the way one can critique the story. From my perspective this isn’t a story about a ‘win’ this is a story about how a very specific nation has been forged and the forces that came together to form it. It is a story about things that happened not a story about how people felt or how those feelings came into conflict. Those things will inevitably be covered in different stories.Still, the point really is that even if I did all that, that is my choice. If you disagree, then explain why you think Hickman managed to make this feel like a win, and how those elements of story are present but he has woven them throughout in different methods.
To critique a plot driven story as if it was a character driven story is to use the wrong method to analyse it.
“And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
This 'win' was the topic, and what my criticism was about. That is it. Maybe you can go back and see the thread of the discussion to understand that my narrow look at the story was because I was talking about a narrow element of it that someone else claimed was significant. I was not addressing any other elements, themes, interpretations of the story. Just the 'win'.
What? How in world does closing off your borders from people hate you already make things worse? Krakoa isn't a promise land it is a refuge camp.
What kinda aholes thinks they deserve access to very thing they caused to happen by being aholes? The argument reeks of privilege of having everything and being deny of one thing and not having access is problem.It is mindblowing.
I am not sure if I am or not to be honest. That isn’t how I would express it though. It certainly feels like a metaphor for the less privileged. Quite how a picked-on skateboarder fits that is up for debate, but skateboarding is partly an outsider culture. That may be a route into the stories, but that isn’t why they exist.
Many of us are drawn to mutants because they represent those parts of us that are not accepted by others. Then, through the wider metaphor we are encouraged to see that in the broad context of relative privilege. Different X-Books play to different aspects of this, and examine them from different angles. They challenge us all. The best of the stories make us question these issues on a much more fundamental level than our own personal privileges or lack there of. And the best are not designed to play to a specific group.
“And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
Last edited by Ororo101; 10-04-2019 at 07:27 AM.
I was going through the tread point by point, so I have a perspective on where it came from, but I grant you I may have misunderstood your specific point if you are not personally attached to the idea of this book being about a ‘win’.
Perhaps to clarify, do you personally think this story is supposed to be about a win? Or were you suggesting it wasn’t?
From my perspective it certainly isn’t.
“And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.