HOUSE OF x [06] : I AM NOT ASHAMED [SPOILERS]

[numberthirty]

No, he saw ten outcomes out of an infinite number of them. That's not every possible outcome, this isn't true.

There is not an "Infinite" number of them.

The idea that there is an "Infinite" amount of ways that could have been done makes almost no sense.

[Ultimate Rogue]

I’m sad we didn’t get to see Gambit, Rogue and Betsy in thia. Wish they had an official role in Krakoa. Maybe Excalibur will explore that somehow.

True

It's all too divisive and polarizing to feel like a genuine high point, a celebration, a win for mutants.

Rogue, Betsy, Gambit, Beast, Colossus, Kitty, New Mutants, Rachel, Northstar, Sunfire, Madrox, Cable have all fought for years, yet not even a cameo at the party, yet we get a GORGON scene, wft!!!

But I do think it's deliberate, we're not all meant to be getting hyper off the kool aid. Which I think is shitty, frankly. It all would of had a bigger impact if more characters we're included.

I'd love a mini series of the party.

[WeaponX]

There is not an "Infinite" number of them.

The idea that there is an "Infinite" amount of ways that could have been done makes almost no sense.

Unless you stop to think about it. Just think how many separate realities could spin out of a major life choice you make, multiply that by every person on the planet. And heck Moria really explores two solutions announce mutantdom and try to coexist or announce mutantdom and try to dominate humanity. Hardly exploring all options there finite or not.

[numberthirty]

True

It's all too divisive and polarizing to feel like a genuine high point, a celebration, a win for mutants.

Rogue, Betsy, Gambit, Beast, Colossus, Kitty, New Mutants, Rachel, Northstar, Sunfire, Madrox, Cable have all fought for years, yet not even a cameo at the party, yet we get a GORGON scene, wft!!!

But I do think it's deliberate, we're not all meant to be getting hyper off the kool aid. Which I think is shitty, frankly. It all would of had a bigger impact if more characters we're included.

I'd love a mini series of the party.

Hickman has been writing Gorgon for quite a while now. Never mind that it is more of a "Wolverine Trying To Get The Ball Rolling On Mending Fences With Gorgon..." as opposed to a "Gorgon" scene.

[numberthirty]

Unless you actually stop to think about it. Just think how many separate realities could spin out of a major life choice you multiply that by every person on the planet. And heck Moria really explores two solutions announce mutantdom and try to coexist or announce mutantdom and try to dominate humanity. Hardly exploring all options there finite or not.

The problem is that trying to build details that could change into anything that gets you anywhere near "Prior Evolutionary Step" will not try to fight winding up being "Prior" is not going to happen in an infinite number of ways.

It won't even happen in a particularly large number in the "Finite" range.

[Killerbee911]

A parent can't even visit his or her child on Krakoa if s/he doesn't have the right genetic.

Okay. And.One place on planet they can't freely go and you know why. Besides Humans can go to habitats which are in between.And the Habitats look fair big almost like if Human and Mutants could live there. There is no reason for Humans to be Krakoa at this time. The plan can't be stay on Krakoa forever as much you guys need that be your point. The goal is to bring back the millions of dead mutants and have lots of children and Oh yeah these people can't die. What does that tell you about the population.

But that's the thing: Locking him under the earth but leaving him awake and aware, that's a prison. It's semantics to say otherwise. It's in fact the very worst kind of imprisonment, solitary confinement. Charles is a professor of psychology, he knows exactly how damaging this form of torture is to an individual's mind.The fact that he's doing it anyway, is monstrous.

The real hypocrisy comes to light when you realize that Wolverine did the same thing on the Sentinel mission. He killed at least five people on panel. So did Penance. If we're retroactively applying a five minute old law to justify burying Creed, then why isn't that law applied fairly to all? This stinks of dirty politics. Either the law is the same for everyone, or it's just a tool for removing the inconvenient.

The correct answer is that since the law didn't exist at the time, Creed should have been set free with a warning. Even if he is odious, what they did to him wasn't real justice.

Actually no remember what everyone was complaining about, They took Creed out of the custody of humans who were going to deliver their version of justice. They aren't retroactively applying law. Creed commited a crime that had to be punished and current government punish him with law now in place.They were bunch of people saying the X-men were lawless because the allowed Creed to go punished.Turns out they were wrong they were taking him into custody to be punished.

Also Wolverine and Penance didn't do the same thing. Not all killing is the same despite what comic fans think. Killing in authorized combat and killing on mission where lethal force isn't necessary are two different things.

Well, to use your metaphor, Charles has said since the founding of the X-Men that it is the job of Kid B and his toys to forgive and work with Kid A to try and change Kid A's behavior.

But now Kid B is across the street, tossing a few gifts to Kid A but also saying "you cannot cross the street, and if you do I'll beat you up."

Charles through the various lives of Moria learned that he was wrong. I will repeat that again Charles learned that he was wrong. He learned that his approach to getting peaceful existence was wrong. He is trying a new approach .One that will ultimately fail because the comic requires it to fail for drama. But according story Chuck knows old path failed, World domination failed, He knows they are bunch of futures were mutants are wiped out. They are trying to navigate a path that doesn't lead to mutants being wiped out. Simple put they have to do things differently. Complaining that Chuck is following the same old path when he has seen in his present and future that his path doesn't work seem weird.

So yeah Kid B learned that he might not be able change Kid A. If Kid A never changes Kid B might never let him play with his toys again. Since he does want his toys broken ever that is only safe solution. Over time Kid B will probably test Kid A to see if he has changed. But why would let Kid B play let Kid A with his toys without some real proof of change?

[drupgyu]

This is a blanket ban of sapiens, not a "you are banned until there's proof you are different." It doesn't matter what their background was, or the relationships they held.
They are not allowed on Krakoa PERIOD.
Kraked are entitled to hold such a policy sure, I'm not discussing the reasons why they would choose to do so in the first place, you are the one deciding to do that - but let's not pretend this is coexistence-friendly. It is not.



No one talked about sharing the land, you are the one going there on your own.
Right now, no sapien can set foot on the island. A parent can't even visit his or her child on Krakoa if s/he doesn't have the right genetic. Which is silly because, try as you might with your earlier "example", sapiens are not this dull, monolithic block of people united in their hatred of mutants, the same way mutants are not this dull, monolithic block of people united in their conviction of racial superiority.
You can pretend they are though, it eases the narrative you are sporting I suppose.



Are you secretely a real mutant living out there in our world? Because I doubt you are.

I think this is a fascinating dialogue that folks are having about these comics!

One of the great tensions marginalized people have the world over throughout history has been assimilation versus separation/isolationism. Being in a marginalized group, you are often asked to assimilate to the values, behaviors, mores and morality of the dominant ruling group. This means: accepting their modes of expression, their views on beauty, their modes of dress, their religion, etc, while denigrating your own group.

The marginalized group always a has characteristics that AUTOMATICALLY put them outside of the dominant group’s aesthetic; there is never COMPLETE belonging as the characteristics that make the marginalized group marginalized already puts them out of step and subject to persecution- microagressions and larger aggressions.

Sometimes, the dominant group itself doesn’t want to deal with the marginalized/minority group and creates apartheid, segregation or even genocide. This comes from any number of reasons: fear, envy, jealousy, revulsion, prejudice, etc . Some within the dominant group may even have no problems with the marginalized group, perhaps even seeing that the creations the marginalized group participates in for its self-expression to be alluring and different from the dominate group.

Still, there is a nagging sense of OTHERNESS that the marginalized group may feel, combined with routine flare-ups that may be violent or exclusive in nature. A charismatic leader may even target you as the reason for all the ills in the world while simultaneously blaming you for the the treatment you experience.

So, then it becomes crystal clear that, while you are accepted, TO A POINT, you’re not REALLY accepted- merely tolerated or occasionally indulged. Sure, sentinels, the enforcement force of control isn’t ALWAYS after you, right? Not everyone is a Senator Kelly, right?

The choice becomes, assimilate, which includes giving your resources, energy and creativity to an established order that may hate you, may tolerate you, may fetishize you, may express violence towards you while doing so.

Or... leave. Go back to where you come from although typically, where you come from is just as hostile and the process of marginalization means you have no home anyway. So, you create one.

It’s a pretty old tale with clearly real-world analogues. I happen to be a comic fan of 35+ years and African-American. Every possible thing that can happen to a marginalized group is literally in my dna and I can point to relatives both close and somewhat distant, with names, who have experienced such.

Now, not to be a Debbie Downer, I really haven’t answered the question myself. My wife is of Italian and Irish descent and I clearly love many things that have nothing to do with my explicit ethnic line(like we all do in America) but I definitely see why there is such disagreement with what the X-men are doing (execution of it by Hickman, aside).

The only problem I have with this run of X-stories is the slightly eugenics side of it; aren’t these are mutations within a species as opposed to a new species? Thus, Corsair gave a crap ton of these mutations to his sons(3? 4??). A dog can’t give birth to a cat. But then Homo sapiens themselves have a clear ancestor too. The superiority thing kinda rubs me a little because that has been used as a tool of marginalization itself.

Although, at some point, Homo Sapiens appeared from, what Homo Heidelbergensis or something, so perhaps it is not a mutation? I feel a better grip of genetics might be in order. Some of these mutations, clearly born from the whimsy of a particular writer, seem to have no evolutionary benefit, but then who saw Goldballs coming?

Anyway, thanks for reading my take. I have to admit though, this is the most excited I’ve been for stories in Marvel for a good long time. The company seems to be writing for the movies and the places it isn’t, Immortal Hulk, FF and these, are good.

People hesitate to put real-world analogues in place of the X-men stories, but art comes from a particular time and place with typical experiences that the writers and readers have. If no-one was an abused, slightly nerdy person, Spider-man would have no resonance. If we in America had no experience with segregation, slavery, genocide and legal marginalization of various groups based on gender, race or orientation, these stories wouldn’t have a place to land.

Perhaps, this is why the X-men can be so riveting when in capable hands. If you just wanted a ton of capes and costumes flying around without dealing with some of these issues of belonging, assimilation and the price to find self-worth, go read Legion of Superheroes ( a fine comic on occasion, but not THIS).

[jwatson]

Whats the most fascinating to me of all this thread is watching those who were liberal minded posters in the past when their faves were presented great or rather how they expect them to be were all excited and saying it's decent story are now coming after Hickman/Marvel and the story from an and every angle possible to make it take off as legitimate. Wow. I am there are some gripes to be had for sure but yeesh.

[jwatson]

This is a blanket ban of sapiens, not a "you are banned until there's proof you are different." It doesn't matter what their background was, or the relationships they held.
They are not allowed on Krakoa PERIOD.
Kraked are entitled to hold such a policy sure, I'm not discussing the reasons why they would choose to do so in the first place, you are the one deciding to do that - but let's not pretend this is coexistence-friendly. It is not.



No one talked about sharing the land, you are the one going there on your own.
Right now, no sapien can set foot on the island. A parent can't even visit his or her child on Krakoa if s/he doesn't have the right genetic. Which is silly because, try as you might with your earlier "example", sapiens are not this dull, monolithic block of people united in their hatred of mutants, the same way mutants are not this dull, monolithic block of people united in their conviction of racial superiority.
You can pretend they are though, it eases the narrative you are sporting I suppose.



Are you secretely a real mutant living out there in our world? Because I doubt you are.

This is a flat out lie. Not all humans are banned because Shogo is a human and we have seen him on Krakoa. Its really that simple. So it's 100% fact not all humans are banned.

[Killerbee911]

This is a flat out lie. Not all humans are banned because Shogo is a human and we have seen him on Krakoa. Its really that simple. So it's 100% fact not all humans are banned.

Just like the stuff with Creed this will get cleared up at some point. 12 issues can't answer all the things needed. Remember the goal is extended the population and two mutants together increases the change of a mutant baby BUT what happens when it doesn't I don't think they are going to kick the baby off the island with their parents. I think they at some point are going to cover mutant prejudice against humans in this society which is actually going to be interesting to read.

[jebsib]

I feel like we need a centralized grid or chart keeping track of which mutant has died / resurrected or not. For example, Wolverine and Skin have died and been resurrected. Has Broo? Has Dani? It is starting to get VERY confusing, and may prove to be an important thing to track.

[ermac]

The only problem I have with this run of X-stories is the slightly eugenics side of it; aren’t these are mutations within a species as opposed to a new species? Thus, Corsair gave a crap ton of these mutations to his sons(3? 4??). A dog can’t give birth to a cat. But then Homo sapiens themselves have a clear ancestor too. The superiority thing kinda rubs me a little because that has been used as a tool of marginalization itself.

Perhaps, this is why the X-men can be so riveting when in capable hands. If you just wanted a ton of capes and costumes flying around without dealing with some of these issues of belonging, assimilation and the price to find self-worth, go read Legion of Superheroes ( a fine comic on occasion, but not THIS).

I think you're probably right on that. The Homo superior used to be something Magneto and Xavier discussed theoretically but since then has been considered "truth" in-story. Morrison doubled down on that when he established the humans would be assimilated by mutants in four generations.

I guess the concept doesn't make sense biologically in real life (actually if there's a specialist here it would be nice to hear from). Probably another case of pseudoscience in comics.

[Devaishwarya]

Why, though?
For the sake of the story going forward it's not necessary. Especially when characters have died multiple times throughout X-History.
And the resurrection of dead mutants isn't the cetralised plot of the story. It's an important plot point yes, but it's not THE driving plot.
At this point you just have to suspend disbelief and imagine that those mutants who we knew and loved, if they died, they are now back...like Skin and Sync.
Also...we only new less than point one percent of the mutants who died on Genosha...it's safe to assume that as of HoX 06, that familiar/known 0.01 % have already been resurrected.

[sunofdarkchild]

Mutants would seem to be either a sub-species or an intermediary step between homo sapiens and whatever homo sapiens will truly evolve into.

[Punch Dimension.]

What's been most fascinating about this run is the language used by Xavier, and how said language has made some posters feel uncomfortable. Given that using broad strokes you could look at Xavier's new language like the changing perspective of many minorities compared to say 20 years ago. We don't want to assmilate. We want our own space with our own people where we feel safe. No, we're not going to try and hold hands with bigots anymore, we're going to punch them back.

That's why i think those of us who are minorities have always felt a deep connection to the metaphor, and that's why we feel such joy seeing what Hickman has done with the mutants. It's similar to Wakanda's wish fulfilment.

"Make More Mutants"

"Murder No Human"

"Respect This Sacred Land"

The Three Laws. Couldn't help but think of Asimov while reading this.
I AM relieved.
Mutants DO have laws. They DO value lives other than their own. They DO deserve the trust that, at the very least, they WILL exert justice on rogue mutants and renegades.
This was a great concern but the fact that laws will be enforced and leniency not accorded is a relief. It could ease tensions between their nation and the rest of the world.

That being said.

Xavier turning his back on his own belief, repudiating his faith in his vision in such a blatant, spectacular fashion under the loving gaze of Magneto was unbearable to witness. Shocking.
This is a betrayal of himself,of everything he ever stood for, of everyone who ever decided to support his goals. This is the dream of every supremacist around the world coming true: the idea that people cannot live together because of their differences. The idea that there are people that are inferior and people that are superior. This is it. They've won. All the Grayson Creed and Magneto of the world, they won. Xavier himself acknowledging to the entire world that he was wrong and they were right, from day one.

A racial war is inevitable between sapiens and mutants. It's a matter of time now.

Such an excellent, yet shell-shocking read. Hickman is delivering a frighteningly good story. Bless him.

Xavier's dream was nothing more than an irresponsible fairy tale that has no place in modern society. Glad to see it gone.

The claims are 100% true, you're just ignoring them.

Just because the X-Men stopped to pose before frying the Sentinels doesn't suddenly make them all friends. You don't build up decades worth of character interactions and then have it all end with "and then they were friends again". I'm an English major, I wouldn't accept that from a FIRST GRADER let alone the new head of a multi million dollar comic. All it says to the fans is "sorry you bought everything we put out for the last two decades".

Second year english major thinks she knows more about comics writing and crafting that multi critically acclaimed comic book writer. High cringe.

You just don't accept that because you want it to be hashed out over and over, apparently. It's the ultimate injustice to you and you want Marvel to just stay in that story place with those characters so you can stay angry about it. Well, it's over. Sorry.

Tea spilled absolutely everywhere.