HOUSE OF x [06] : I AM NOT ASHAMED [SPOILERS]

[People Of The Earth]

Agreed. We can disagree on stories without being petty. I think one poster was banned just last night for noting that fans of a character meant they were disgusting irl. Lets not start going there with huge accusations. Again Fiction =/= Reality, nor does it speak on how people are irl.

So far it's a nice debate. Heated, but good.

Heh. Some people are calling posters disagreeing with general consensus "supremacists" or are implying they are somewhat racist as a result...
I think you missed a few beats to believe this debate is an all-nicer, it's really not.

[Silver Fang]

honestly, how much worse can creed become....

He's always getting worse by the writer. In his earlier days Creed was a villain who wasn't above truce, reason, and cooperation even for a bit. But he seems to have moved from more cunning, intelligent, and practical to more animal-like. So if he's down there long enough he may go totally feral, losing the ability to speak or even understand. He'd be like a full blown wild animal by the next time we see him.

[Desmark]

I can't imagine any true x-fan not being familiar with this iconic story! Right up there with Dark Phoenix and Days of Future Past!

They even set up a hotline asking fans to decide the fate of Butter Rum. Butter Rum is going to be brutally murdered by Emma but you can save him by a phone call.

[spirit2011]

Dude, that statement is bullshit. I'm biracial. I don't need to go live on an Island of biracials in order to be happy and safe. Neither do queer folk or women. Society is gradually changing for the better as it has for centuries. The only reason Xavier's dream hasn't worked out is because failure is a narrative device for generating tension to help with sales. This is a marvel product, you already know you'll never get a definitive ending because of that, don't let frustration lead you to saying irresponsible things.

ABout Xavier dream, first there was Genosha. but ok there was still a lot of mutants,s, then quesada thought it was too much and left only 198. So it was more of a decade with extinction plots for many reasons.

civil rights doesn't come without fights and some blood sor sure. But also people shouldn't isolate theirselves so they can live in peace. That is a bad message and I talked about this earlier on this thread

[cranger]

Every villain on that council is getting a pass and written by Hickman as some kind of upstanding citizens while Creed is made worse.

This is where I am giving Hickman some room to show how he is using these villains. Where they matter in Xavier's plans. We know this is more than just the island and the country. Magneto has made a few comments suggesting that. Moira is still a secret.

That said, I do not get the impression that any of these villains are being portrayed as anything but villains. Where I have differed with some is that some think this shows a virtuous sign of the nation, I see it purely as Xavier sending a message to the villains. Council or not, no one's place on this island is granted but by Krakoa and Xavier.

[spirit2011]

He's always getting worse by the writer. In his earlier days Creed was a villain who wasn't above truce, reason, and cooperation even for a bit. But he seems to have moved from more cunning, intelligent, and practical to more animal-like. So if he's down there long enough he may go totally feral, losing the ability to speak or even understand. He'd be like a full blown wild animal by the next time we see him.

Creed will become a total fur ball of rage

[hawkeyefan]

Agreed. Creed is a piece of crap. Nobody would deny that. BUT some of the people judging him are not any better.

• Shaw eventually became a psycho who abused Emma, and murdered prostitutes for fun.
• Mystique kills whenever she feels like it & screws people over for kicks, in addition to being a rapist, as her closed thread established.
• Sinister is Marvel's Orochimaru. Who are we kidding with that?
• Apocalypse kills anyone he sees as weak by his own standard of Darwinism. And being older than anyone in that room, you know his kill count puts Creed's to shame. lol But he gets to join the X-Men teams.

Every villain on that council is getting a pass and written by Hickman as some kind of upstanding citizens while Creed is made worse. Again back during his earlier days, he wasn't beyond reasoning & putting things aside for truces. So a better written one would've done well enough on Krakoa for a while. I say the others on that council are long overdo for similar punishment. lol

I agree with you that some of them are worse than Creed.

But I don't think by any stretch of the imagination that they are being written as upstanding citizens. We are absolutely meant to be unsettled by their inclusion.

[Ororo101]

This was there very first meeting. The very first order of business. No discussion of punishment is indicated. It would seem the since Xavier has been calling the shots so far that no one is objecting to his still taking charge.

I mean this entire thing wouldn’t be possible without him so I’m not to surprised in his taking the helm of matters in regards to council issues. I do think everyone is there to have a vote on those issues though, with none taking precedence over another.

[Silver Fang]

I agree with you that some of them are worse than Creed.

But I don't think by any stretch of the imagination that they are being written as upstanding citizens. We are absolutely meant to be unsettled by their inclusion.

• Well Mystique does noting but get passes to be everywhere.
• Sinister is one of Hickman's favs.
• Apocalypse is around as a good guy for a while apparently given his status on Excalibur, protecting Rictor, and having a romance with Moira.
• Exodus playing with children. Though I am not as familiar with him. So I can't say much there.

For now, Shaw seems like he'll be the main villain on Marauders contrast to Emma's plans. It depends on how these Waves are set up and if all these books in Wave 1 are 20+ issue on-goings. Or if some are meant as maxis. If some of them are shorter, we may see some of the villains on the teams join Creed in stasis.

[chief12d]

Afreed. Creed is a piece of crap. Nobody would deny that. BUT some of the people judging him are not any better.

• Shaw eventually became a psycho who abused Emma, and murdered prostitutes for fun.
• Mystique kills whenever she feels like it & screws people over for kicks, in addition to being a rapist, as her closed thread established.
• Sinister is Marvel's Orochimaru. Who are we kidding with that?
• Apocalypse kills anyone he sees as weak by his own standard of Darwinism. And being older than anyone in that room, you know his kill count puts Creed's to shame. lol But he gets to join the X-Men teams.

Every villain on that council is getting a pass and written by Hickman as some kind of upstanding citizens while Creed is made worse. Again back during his earlier days, he wasn't beyond reasoning & putting things aside for truces. So a better written one would've done well enough on Krakoa for a while. I say the others on that council are long overdo for similar punishment. lol And I hope we see that soon.

I think that’s part of what Hickman is trying to depict alongside the retroactive way Sabretooth was tried. You got a deeply troubled group of people who have monopolized control over this great new country. It’s meant to be exciting but unnerving because there’s no way it can last forever.

[hawkeyefan]

• Well Mystique does noting but get passes to be everywhere.
• Sinister is one of Hickman's favs.
• Apocalypse is around as a good guy for a while apparently given his status on Excalibur, protecting Rictor, and having a romance with Moira.
• Exodus playing with children. Though I am not as familiar with him. So I can't say much there.

For now, Shaw seems like he'll be the main villain on Marauders contrast to Emma's plans. It depends on how these Waves are set up and if all these books in Wave 1 are 20+ issue on-goings. Or if some are meant as maxis. If some of them are shorter, we may see some of the villains on the teams join Creed in stasis.

But what does any of that have to do with them being upstanding citizens? Hickman likes Sinister, therefore he's an upstanding citizen? I don't get it.

They're all bad in one way or another. Will they remain so or can the founding of Krakoa help change them? That's likely one of the big questions going forward.

[Ororo101]

Exactly this. I don't like Sabretooth, but inflicting the most nightmarish form of punishment on him for breaking a law they just then created screams totalitarianism. The Hickman kool-aid drinkers refuse to see that though, since mutants are getting a "win". It doesn't matter that the X-Men are basically the Inhumans now, are now about as sympathetic and likeable as a piranha in an SS uniform.

I’ve addressed the number of offenses Creed was judged for with FULL knowledge that he was disregarding orders and jeopardizing the mission after he was already given a blank slate which he ignored in favor of quenching his savage urges and endangering all mutant life but if you’re determined to “reufuse to see” that and continue to have a miserable outlook on the story instead, than by all means be my guest lol

[Silver Fang]

But what does any of that have to do with them being upstanding citizens? Hickman likes Sinister, therefore he's an upstanding citizen? I don't get it.

Well for now, we see Hickman's got them on the council. So apparently all of them are behaving like little lambs right now. And the ONLY one who stood out and got hammered into the dirt was Creed., the writers' usual scapegoat. He's is the only villain in Marvel who seems to routinely lose effortlessly yet is still see as the worst of the worst when writers want a scapegoat to throw under the bus. And Hell Sinister was the one that caused Krakoa's downfall before, not Creed. lol But they got that man on the council. And all are well-behaved angels enough to be there a while and stick around going into Wave titles.

[JKtheMac]

True. But we also know not everyone has given up on that dream and as such Storm is pretty much the inheitor of his dream most likely along with Jean. At least that's what i felt when he introduced them as family during the council meeting . so his dream may have changed but i don't think the dream is dead.

To add to the isolationist thing though, i wonder, does it change opinions if it's stated Krakoa himself, as a sentient being doesn't want humans on it? And thats why permission must be asked so he doesn't automatically swallow up a human. Krakoa is a mutant that has seen his friends die as well.

Well ‘changing opinion’ wouldn’t be the tight words for me. I am open to either being the case but strongly suspect that some humans will be allowed. It is entirely possible Krakoa has a strong view.

Indeed, now that I think about it ‘respect this sacred land’ could elevate Krakoa to a god.

[Ororo101]

Can maybe you understand a joke, or did it go over your head? No one is calling the X-Men actual Nazis. But my point remains that the X-Men are clearly not people to cheer for in any way shape, or form. Their government is pure totalitarianism, all in the name of taking the central idea of the X-Men since their inception are taking a crap all over it.

Yeahh no, the thing is most decent people know better than to casually make comparisons to Nazis as the butt of a joke in regards to a fictional storyline. Whatever it takes to ignore the fact that mutants have a right to protect themselves, I guess.