Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 171
  1. #46
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    5,212

    Default

    Didn't really like it...it took Peter away from being the everyman he is. I do want him to be successful with a steady job/paycheck....but running a worldwide company was too way out there.

    Now him working on contract for Stark and working the bugs out of some new piece of tech for a big paycheck....that I would like.

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    3,425

    Default

    Honestly, reading Slott's Iron Man run currently, feels less to me that he really wanted to write Iron Man, and moreso he wants to write Iron Man 2020. The whole series has basically just been one big set-up for that. Worldwide obviously is his take on "What is Spider-Man had Iron Man's resources and influence", but I don't necessarily see it as "He wanted to write Iron Man so badly he wrote it as a Spider-Man book." Especially considering in comparison to his current Fantastic Four, which to me personally he feels like he's much more engaged in.

  3. #48
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,047

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    He did say that he wanted to explore how Spider-Man would be different if he shared the trappings of Iron Man. If you make Peter Parker Tont Stark, he won't act like Tony Stark.
    Or come off like a poor man's Tony Stark...
    There have been some hints of Peter going in this direction. One of the alternate futures of One More Day had Peter as a soulless CEO.
    Is that a hint against it, since it's from a bad future?
    We also did get a sense of how his ethics affected his role as CEO. There was his decision not to get paid more than a middle-manager at the company.
    That was pretty minor though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    Honestly, reading Slott's Iron Man run currently, feels less to me that he really wanted to write Iron Man, and moreso he wants to write Iron Man 2020. The whole series has basically just been one big set-up for that. Worldwide obviously is his take on "What is Spider-Man had Iron Man's resources and influence", but I don't necessarily see it as "He wanted to write Iron Man so badly he wrote it as a Spider-Man book." Especially considering in comparison to his current Fantastic Four, which to me personally he feels like he's much more engaged in.
    I've read the first two trades but the only thing that have felt like they're building up to Iron Man 2020 is the Arno stuff.

  4. #49
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    9,358

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexCampy89 View Post
    When Stan Lee created Peter Parker he wanted him to be down and out on the brink of poverty.
    If by Stan Lee, you mean the Lee/Romita era (where Lee really had more of a say on the character and story direction) then that would not be true at all. In the Lee-Romita era, Peter Parker moved from Queens to Manhattan, he shared a flat with Harry Osborn and lived la vida Friends, since Papa Norman was willing to let Harry and Peter freeload on a swanky loft in the middle of Manhattan for free. Peter also had a rich girlfriend like Gwen Stacy and was basically being groomed to marrying well into the Stacy family what with George taking a shine to him and all. Spider-Man in the Lee-Romita era was very much a story of Peter getting upward mobility in the class sense. In a character level, Peter having a good life was part of the reason he had so much angst then (evidenced in ASM #87) where he had a real sense of "impostor syndrome" i.e. that sense you get when you feel you don't belong in a social circle, or don't deserve the success you have.

    Stan Lee probably did intend that Lee-Romita era to be the lasting status-quo and one reason why that seemed like the good times is that audiences and readers got a sense that Peter's finally got friends, a nice girl and seemed to be heading somewhere. From puny Parker to stud Parker, from "professional wallflower" to becoming a prize for the two most beautiful women in comics in that time, from being harassed by Jonah to having people in his corner like George Stacy and Robbie Robertson. So it felt really sad when that ended...Peter's roommate became a junkie, his new Daddy George died in collateral damage but not before confirming that had he lived Peter's life would have been easier, then his girlfriend became a wingnut and broke off with him before coming back and driving his Aunt to exile where she ended up engaged to Doctor Octopus. And then Gwen died.

    When he stepped out of writing the character in ASM 100-101, he basically forced the poverty thing to all his successors.
    Gerry Conway threw a pipe bomb into the Stan Lee era. When Norman died, Harry and Peter both had to pay the rent, and since Harry was nuts, it fell to Peter to pay the rent for both of them (making Harry the proverbial "worst roommate ever" even before he bombed that place). This led to Peter taking up jobs like the famous Spider-Mobile gig. Most of the money for that went into rent for an apartment that ended up being bombed anyway by his lunatic best friend. Then Peter went to live in a cheap apartment in Chelsea (at the time it signified a very poor, seedy, and paradoxically affordable part of Manhattan, as opposed to today where it's gentrified to hell), and he ended up dating that nice working-class Queens girl that his Aunt said was right for him, and who was there at his lowest point when the chips were down for him.

    So it's not true that Stan Lee wanted Peter poor and that he forced that status-quo on other writers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    There have been some hints of Peter going in this direction. One of the alternate futures of One More Day had Peter as a soulless CEO.
    That proves my point. Until Worldwide, every version of Peter as a rich man whether it's the What-If comic where Peter saves Uncle Ben and continues to be a fame-obsessed celebrity, whether it's the 90s Fox cartoon in the finale, whether it's the Spider-Man Edge of Time game, the House of M Spider-Man, portrays Peter becoming a terrible person the wealthier he gets. It's essentially a consistent theme that it's inorganic to the character. Dan Slott's approach is a classic golden mean fallacy. You get the vicarious idea of Peter as a businessman but without any sense that Peter wants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Didn't really like it...it took Peter away from being the everyman he is. I do want him to be successful with a steady job/paycheck....but running a worldwide company was too way out there.
    Yeah, my sense of Peter is that he would be like Nikola Tesla or Preston Tucker. He would be remembered as the great genius who wasn't respected in his time or loved as much as others but after he dies, people will think more highly of him. Do people think Tesla is a loser? I don't think they do. I mean it's ironic and sad that Tesla's name now adorns a car company for douchebags making several times the cash that he did when he lived.

    Now him working on contract for Stark and working the bugs out of some new piece of tech for a big paycheck....that I would like.
    One cool thing would have been...what if Peter ended up being in charge of Oscorp? That would have been interesting to see. Basically Norman's decommissioned and Harry is out and it turns out that there's a note that says that the business would be run by Peter (as ordered by Peter). So Peter now has this awesome responsibility of becoming spokesman for Oscorp. He can't dissolve the company of his enemy because a lot of innocent people are employed, he's seen as a crony of Harry who got a top job he didn't earn, and when it ends, Norman will note that Peter was actually a good businessman and that Peter's investment in more safe and proper products for ordinary people as opposed to criminal groups has made Oscorp profitable...and Norman's gonna keep all that money now to become richer and greedier and more criminal than ever.

    That's a great Spider-Man as businessman story right there...And you get the Peter Parker-as-Tesla allegory right there.

  5. #50
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    884

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Yeah no...

    That’s a horrible idea

    It would be a step backwards for the character.
    Joe Robbie Robertson. J Jonah Jameson. Betty Brant. Ben Urich. Peter Parker.

    What's not to love about classic status quos we, or many of us whose grown up on it, are used to?

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    2,990

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ngroove View Post
    Joe Robbie Robertson. J Jonah Jameson. Betty Brant. Ben Urich. Peter Parker.

    What's not to love about classic status quos we, or many of us whose grown up on it, are used to?
    Because after nearly 60 years stuff gets stale. In another 20-30 years the Bugle will be redundant since print news will be gone.

  7. #52
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    9,358

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Because after nearly 60 years stuff gets stale. In another 20-30 years the Bugle will be redundant since print news will be gone.
    "No one's ever truly gone"
    -- Luke Skywalker.

    I don't get why people think that because print media is declining that means news as a whole will die out. You still need journalists and editors of caliber, you still need leads, scoops, and pictures and so on. In fact, the need for reliable information is stronger in this age of deepfakes since stuff like that was harder before. Photography as a profession hasn't died out in the age of smartphones. Think of the big news scandals of the last few years -- stuff like Panama Papers, #Me Too, the Flint Water crisis, the catholic child abuse scandals, the Volkswagen Emissions scandal.

    Nowadays, a lot of news-sites have paywalls or ask people to turn off AdBlocker and so on. Well Daily Bugle can increase subscriptions by exclusives that Peter Parker gets for them. For writers to say the Bugle stuff is played out because print media is declining, well all that shows is how out of touch they are with reality.

    And even then it's possible to move around and play with the Bugle cast in different roles.

  8. #53
    iMan 42s
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    3,654

    Default

    Print being dead is a weird one to me because how often are you honestly looking at the news on your phone? Likely not that much. Internet media can be updated far quicker, but the paper reliably comes out on time in the same place it was yesterday. Point being is that you're likely not on your phone that much and the paper is right there. News sites for your area tend to have a limit on the articles you can view. Just getting a paper is 50 cents to a dollar, maybe three if your that unlucky. Internet at least around here is updated at the same time print is, you can generally find things online quicker but unless it's updating an article it's not by that much. The paper here is as big as one of our pizza joints, you really don't need that much to do a decent paper.
    -----------------------------------
    For anyone that needs to know why OMD is awful please search the internet for Linkara' s video's specifically his One more day review or his One more day Analysis.

  9. #54
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    9,358

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    Print being dead is a weird one to me because how often are you honestly looking at the news on your phone? Likely not that much. Internet media can be updated far quicker, but the paper reliably comes out on time in the same place it was yesterday. Point being is that you're likely not on your phone that much and the paper is right there. News sites for your area tend to have a limit on the articles you can view. Just getting a paper is 50 cents to a dollar, maybe three if your that unlucky. Internet at least around here is updated at the same time print is, you can generally find things online quicker but unless it's updating an article it's not by that much. The paper here is as big as one of our pizza joints, you really don't need that much to do a decent paper.
    And even if Print Media IS dying, it's in Marvel's interest to crank out as many classic Daily Bugle stuff out while that's still a thing. As Gore Vidal said, "The next best thing to being at the beginning is to be there at the end". This could be the last real time to do the classic Daily Bugle stuff and do a nice ride out. I man when the Western as a genre died out, film-makers like Peckinpah, Eastwood, Leone and others cranked out twilight of western stuff one-after-another, competing with one another get the last word.

    I think people fall into a conception that "internet news is rising, print publication is declining" so they think something's finished when that might not be the case.

  10. #55
    "Emma is STILL right! Vegeta's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,326

    Default

    I was never invested in it. If we saw Peter really work to create the company maybe I would have cared about it's success. But instead we just got lazy time jumps (9 months later, it's an international enterprise!) to immediately establish the new status quo. I felt nothing when he lost it and went back to the unemployment line, because well, "easy come, easy go."

    He also never really did anything with his wealth outside of use it to build armored costumes and spider-mobiles. He didn't really enjoy his money (he gave himself a smaller paycheck or whatever) and even though he lived in Shanghai, China (Which could of made for some interesting culture shock and scenarios with different backdrops) he either spent most of his time inside the Parker Industries building or globe trotting with Nick Fury and SHIELD. It was a completely wasted opportunity to do something truly unique with the Spider-Man premise, and all we got was a bunch of Batman gadgets.
    "The White Queen welcomes you, TO DIE!"

  11. #56
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,047

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    He also never really did anything with his wealth outside of use it to build armored costumes and spider-mobiles. He didn't really enjoy his money (he gave himself a smaller paycheck or whatever) and even though he lived in Shanghai, China (Which could of made for some interesting culture shock and scenarios with different backdrops) he either spent most of his time inside the Parker Industries building or globe trotting with Nick Fury and SHIELD. It was a completely wasted opportunity to do something truly unique with the Spider-Man premise, and all we got was a bunch of Batman gadgets.
    And while they were kind of cool in the PS4 game, I'm kind of over Spider-Man with a bunch of gadgets.

  12. #57
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,499

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    Print being dead is a weird one to me because how often are you honestly looking at the news on your phone?
    A lot. As in, all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    And even if Print Media IS dying, it's in Marvel's interest to crank out as many classic Daily Bugle stuff out while that's still a thing.
    That would not be a motivator, no.

    "This aspect of the culture is fading, let's go all in on it!"

    The DB served a purpose for many years and while it still has a tangential presence in the Spidey books and in the MU, this is not the time to double down on it.

    Even as far back as BND, they were finding ways to make the Bugle less central to Peter's life. Newspapers are not the place where your youthful protagonist (and even if Peter is in his mid-to-late 20s, that's still youthful enough) should be spending much time.

    As for Parker Industries, it was fun. The over reactions at the time of "this isn't how Peter was meant to be!" seem to be made by people who didn't understand that this was never going to be the forever status quo for Peter going forward and that this was simply meant to be a storyline that would eventually end and bring Peter back to more familiar grounds.

    When you have characters that are in constant publication, with new stories every month, you have to mix things up on occasion, take things in a different direction. Have fun with something new.

    Fans tend to panic when a big change happens but there's always a way to restore the status quo.

  13. #58
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,047

    Default

    They've been updating the Bugle in media for a while now so I don't really see it as an issue. How many adaptions have had Jonah's mug on billboards and TV screens ranting about Spider-Man?

  14. #59
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    9,358

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    "This aspect of the culture is fading, let's go all in on it!"
    While there's still time, sure. Heck Bendis' Ultimate Spider-Man had Peter talk about that in the second post-Ultimatum volume. Ultimate Peter visits the Bugle upgrading to digital and he talks to MJ about how happy he was that he got to be part of a great print paper when he still had a chance. It's like how much people who grew up in the 80s and 90s (which is where Ultimate Peter was) prize their analog childhoods.

    And that nostalgia is very much in keeping with today's youth. That's why Vinyl came back in a big way (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_revival). Why Stranger Things and 80s nostalgia is a thing. That was the last time people really had an analog childhood (though I grew up in the 90s so I had an analog childhood too but my family wasn't very rich so we weren't considered in the target demo).

    Even as far back as BND, they were finding ways to make the Bugle less central to Peter's life.
    Must be why that period was terrible. And in any case the best received new character from that time -- Norah Winters -- worked at the Bugle.

    Newspapers are not the place where your youthful protagonist...
    Your youthful protagonist who is poor and on the margins and as such not exactly a totally mainstream stand-in of what people think mainstream is supposed to be (which is mostly a middle-class fantasy and not representative of reality).

    Peter worked while he was in high school after all, and during college. Anyway, even if print media is dying, that doesn't mean journalism will disappear. To quote Warren Ellis' Transmetropolitan, "We can do deadlines." The fact is the Daily Bugle is the core supporting cast - Jameson, Betty, Robbie and others. Go back to the Ditko and Romita era, most of the issues show Peter at the Bugle rather than high school or college. You can't entirely throw that away. It's built into the stories.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 10-04-2019 at 01:45 PM.

  15. #60
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    New Jersey, U.S.A.
    Posts
    21,249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Fang X View Post
    For me, I would love to see Peter take on a no-nonsense attitude when fighting certain opponents (Carnage, Kraven, Osborn, Fisk, Knull, etc), but still cracking wise against others, but the banter would be more condescending from Parker due to both strategy and how he actually sees his opponents (imagine Peter taking some savage swipes at Rhino or Scorpion, both verbally and physically). I would also reintroduce the Way of the Spider fighting style and have his powers from the Other unlocked to help maximize his power level. On the civilian side of the equation: Peter and Parker Industries would developing cutting edge and state-of-the-art technology to help solve various issues such as mass hunger, the ongoing energy crisis, various forms of medicine and cures for different diseases. An added and unexpected twist, Parker Industries would partake in the weapons & defense business by creating and selling weapons only to countries that have no other means of defending themselves adequately. Some countries would include, Atlantis, Symkaria and most infamous of all, the isle of Krakoa.

    Another major point I would like to see is that Peter start showing a backbone while dealing with other heroes. I would be hype for Peter to get along with the likes of the Hulk (Banner), T'Challa, Doctor Strange, Moon Knight, the FF, Prowler, Namor, Daredevil and Ghost Rider (Blaze), but have a more rivalries with the likes of Stark, Danvers, Rogers, Barton, heck, let Spidey have beef with a vast majority of the Avengers on grounds of Spidey seeing them as more of a liability than allies, not to mention their connection to the likes of SHIELD, SWORD and the government would make him wary of them.

    Also, not making it a normal thing, but Spidey needs to loosen up on his childish "No Killing" rule regarding certain villains (all of the encounters with Carnage and the Goblins being prime examples). Simply put, set up Spidey as a loose cannon type of vigilante while Peter Parker is considered a lovable science/business maverick. And finally, MJ is out of the picture. Time for a new, and preferably, super-powered, love interest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Fang X View Post
    I really don't see the point in Peter keeping the no-kill at this juncture regarding certain villains, not to mention that it can be used as a point to expand upon a plot of Spider-Man giving a voice to the "justice system being broken" deal, which would put Peter in major conflict with many other heroes (Avengers, possibly FF), but also attract and inspire others that think along the same lines (Moon Knight, Punisher, Ghost Rider). Also, I think the MJ relationship has ran its course for years and I just think that it's time for Pete to move on with someone that can actually keep up with him in and out of costume, and Mary Jane just does not have that dynamic.
    Those are intriguing ideas. I might not necessarily agree with all of them, but with the exception of breaking it off for good with Mary Jane, I can see potential in just about all of them. Given how much pain and suffering and death a lot of the villains you name Peter going more hardline against have caused, I could see him at least being significantly less concerned if they die than he would otherwise, maybe similar to Batman's decision in Batman Begins with Ra's al Ghul where he concludes that while he's not going to kill Ra's, he's not obligated to save him from the (lethal) consequences of his actions, which would have killed millions of people in Gotham City. I also like the idea of Spider-Man breaking ties with the Avengers for how little actual good they do in and for the world, recalling Reed Richards himself calling out Captain America and Iron Man in Avengers Vs. X-Men for perhaps being more motivated by the fear of being rendered obsolete than by any actual abuse of power by the Phoenix-powered X-Men, not to mention the whole thorny issue of their complicity by silence in the ongoing attempts by the governments of the world to commit outright genocide against mutants.

    The idea of him working on bleeding-edge tech to help more vulnerable countries in the Marvel Universe defend themselves against aggression while also possibly leveraging his position on the geopolitical stage to push for positive change in the world that actually lasts is appealing as well. In light of what you mentioned before about Spider-Man giving voice to the flaws of the contemporary justice system and how it's not really equipped to deal with certain threats to the public welfare or address the issues of endemic corruption, I could see him developing more of an alliance with not just Prowler like you mentioned before, but also Cardiac, as his whole motivation for becoming a vigilante is that there are perfectly legal ways to ruin, if not even end, people's lives for the sake of greed and power. Overall, this could be a very interesting treatise in approaching and (re)examining the lesson of "with great power, there must also come great responsibility," since the definition of "great power" can vary based on the individual, and "great responsibility" begs the question of exactly who or what that responsibility covers and how far it can or should extend.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •