Page 30 of 34 FirstFirst ... 20262728293031323334 LastLast
Results 436 to 450 of 502
  1. #436
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    22,166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam-X View Post
    Yeah. For sure. I can see why Scott wouldn't want Maddie brought back - reminder of the days he started being an arse.

    That said - I see discussions for the Emma clones... and granted "hive mind" or not... still clones right?

    I mean, Maddie had a life of her own - became a pilot, did things, she lived her own life.

    It's an interesting position to take.

    Because technically they'd never resurrect Professor Xavier right?

    Or did they forget when Xavier was cloned by the Starjammers - due to the egg in him from the Brood Queen? After Uncanny X-Men #167, or so...

    "The X-Men discover this and return to free Xavier, but they are too late to prevent his body from being destroyed with a Brood Queen in its place; however, his soul remains intact. The X-Men and Starjammers subdue this monstrous creature containing Xavier's essence, but the only way to restore him is to clone a new body using tissue samples he donated to the Starjammers and transfer his consciousness into the clone body. This new body possesses functional legs, though the psychosomatic pain Xavier experienced after living so long as a paraplegic takes some time to subside."
    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Eh, just put Maddy's mind in Maddy and Jean's mind in Jean. Maddy's got a mutant gene, so she should be backed up in Cerebro like every other mutant on Earth. Seems easy enough.

    IMO, the whole thing was an excuse because the QC *didn't want* Maddy back. They've already got Selene, Sinister, Shadow King, Shaw, Exodus, etc. to keep an eye on, and are, frankly, doing a crap job of that. Last thing they need to do is add to the pile of problems on their plate.
    Maddie is a cautionary tale for what happens when someone is cloned when the original is still alive.

  2. #437
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    1,849

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Maddie is a cautionary tale for what happens when someone is cloned when the original is still alive.
    Not really...it was everything that led to her finding out she was a clone that caused the problems. Sinister's manipulations, Scott's abandoning her, the Marauders trying to kill her...

    Maddie being a clone of Jean is no different than the Cuckoos being clones of Emma...it's the treatment of them as individuals that can cause the problems.

  3. #438
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    22,166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Not really...it was everything that led to her finding out she was a clone that caused the problems. Sinister's manipulations, Scott's abandoning her, the Marauders trying to kill her...

    Maddie being a clone of Jean is no different than the Cuckoos being clones of Emma...it's the treatment of them as individuals that can cause the problems.
    She was an extension of Jean. She was an inanimate shell until the Phoenix 'died" and then used a part of Jean's soul to give her life and that only happened bc Jean rejected it. She had some of Jean's memories and even her love for Scott. She oly existed for a couple of months before we were introduced to her and any non-Jean memories she had were false, fabcricated by Sinister to give her the sense of having lived a full life. The original Jean was not dead and Maddie should have never existed. She merged with Jean in Inferno, returning the piece of her soul that she had and her memories were incorporated into Jean. The two personalities shared the body for a short while until Maddie was fully integrated into her. The original Maddie lives on through Jean

    This is a cautionary tale bc lets say a resurrected mutant finds out that the original isnt dead, its going to create the same complication. I think Leah is playing with that in X-Factor with Prodigy. If there are two of them, I think they are going to have to merge somehow. That'll likely mean one dies and the other's memories is added to the other

  4. #439
    Amazing Member patch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    In Hellions #4....Scott tells Alex that Maddie won't be resurrected and states..."There are protocols. She was a clone of Jean. The Council doesn't want...". So...yes the resurrected are clones...but they want to only put the original person in a clone...not someone else. However the Cuckoos are just a bunch of clones of Emma...and the 2 dead ones were brought back...so the council is just being hypocrites.
    Yeah, there are inconsistencies which don't really make sense to me, the Cuckoos being a prime example especially since they won't give Gabby/Scout a straight answer (and she would be very aware of the situation with the Cuckoos). It would make slightly better sense to me if part of the protocols (for 'clones') is that the donor/'original' had to grant permission (Emma would have wanted all her 'daughters' returned to her; Laura certainly would want Gabby protected (of course this opens the can of worms as to what to do with the other 'sister clones'); Magneto has no interest in bringing Joseph back).

    I absolutely don't want Alex to end up with Maddie (all sorts of wrong there) but that opinion is certainly separate from the scope of the question of resurrection for Maddie. When Maddie died (the first time at least) Jean resorbed that part of her (I think explained as the portion of the Phoenix that awakened Maddie when she killed herself on the moon), so perhaps she doesn't feel a resurrection is warranted (plus Jean never considered Maddie as a sister, and would have viewed her as a piece stolen from her by Sinister). I think Scott's treatment of that whole situation is the most disturbing (forgetting your deceased wife and mother of your child who you just have call your current wife 'mom' (and I know that's an oversimplification since Jean did 'raise' Cable for several years in the future, aside that Jean-Cable are indeed genetically connected)).

  5. #440
    Being mysterious... From The Shadows's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    The Outback
    Posts
    3,759

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    I am not a fan of the resurrections...but since they are doing it they need to lean into it. So ANY mutant who died...as well as any possible or intended mutant needs to show up alive...and in more that just a 'look..there he is in the back corner of the party shot with 50 random characters' way. John Proudstar should be shown with a little prominence even if only shown sparring with his little brother and talking about what's going on. Same with someone like Darkstar (former Champion and friend of Bobby and Warren) or Jean's niece and nephew...and possibly Jean's sister. According to Claremont...Sara was going to have a power to activate latent mutant genes...Xavier would get all twitterpated over someone like that.
    I'm not really into the resurrections either and I really want to put my foot down a lot at times but I guess I found this thread too tempting. To add... There are so many mutants that you wonder what's the point if you are only going to use the same characters again and again. And there are many smaller character that have some connections at least to the mainstays re: your examples Darkstar's to Bobby and Warren and Sara to Jean... that taking advantage of it would make such interactions seem less contrived and a reason to bring characters to the forefront. I think too many times now people will put certain characters together and force them into roles instead of building it up with an in story reason and then graduate to something bigger but that's thoughts for another topic I guess.
    Last edited by From The Shadows; 03-03-2021 at 01:16 PM.
    The (old) Hank McCoy thread. https://community.cbr.com/showthread...on-Thread-2020

    Interested in knowing more about Balder? https://community.cbr.com/showthread...on-Thread-2020

  6. #441
    Fantastic Member ospfwildcard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    halting katastrophe
    Posts
    432

    Default

    i would like the real x-men to be resurrected. this current version are not the real ones.
    Marvel and DC comics are no different than the food at McDonalds. It will fill you up but in the end bad for your health. Read more independent publishers. Get away from the corporate homogenous cookie cutter fast food comics.

  7. #442
    Spectacular Member Bozack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    154

    Default

    Jamie Madrox since Hickman and company are treating a well-developed character with a unique powerset like he's still dead.

  8. #443

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ospfwildcard View Post
    i would like the real x-men to be resurrected. this current version are not the real ones.
    You must be an older reader like myself?

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    She was an extension of Jean. She was an inanimate shell until the Phoenix 'died" and then used a part of Jean's soul to give her life and that only happened bc Jean rejected it. She had some of Jean's memories and even her love for Scott. She oly existed for a couple of months before we were introduced to her and any non-Jean memories she had were false, fabcricated by Sinister to give her the sense of having lived a full life. The original Jean was not dead and Maddie should have never existed. She merged with Jean in Inferno, returning the piece of her soul that she had and her memories were incorporated into Jean. The two personalities shared the body for a short while until Maddie was fully integrated into her. The original Maddie lives on through Jean

    This is a cautionary tale bc lets say a resurrected mutant finds out that the original isnt dead, its going to create the same complication. I think Leah is playing with that in X-Factor with Prodigy. If there are two of them, I think they are going to have to merge somehow. That'll likely mean one dies and the other's memories is added to the other
    If she was a clone and an extension of Jean - how come she never displayed any powers until Inferno?
    Need Comics? Consider using my Affiliate link - helps keep my Podcast ad free!
    https://www.mycomicshop.com/?AffID=1055159P01
    Check out the Comic Relief Podcast! - The podcast all about comics!

  9. #444
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    1,849

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    She was an extension of Jean. She was an inanimate shell until the Phoenix 'died" and then used a part of Jean's soul to give her life and that only happened bc Jean rejected it. She had some of Jean's memories and even her love for Scott. She oly existed for a couple of months before we were introduced to her and any non-Jean memories she had were false, fabcricated by Sinister to give her the sense of having lived a full life. The original Jean was not dead and Maddie should have never existed. She merged with Jean in Inferno, returning the piece of her soul that she had and her memories were incorporated into Jean. The two personalities shared the body for a short while until Maddie was fully integrated into her. The original Maddie lives on through Jean

    This is a cautionary tale bc lets say a resurrected mutant finds out that the original isnt dead, its going to create the same complication. I think Leah is playing with that in X-Factor with Prodigy. If there are two of them, I think they are going to have to merge somehow. That'll likely mean one dies and the other's memories is added to the other
    But her personal experiences make her a unique individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by From The Shadows View Post
    I'm not really into the resurrections either and I really want to put my foot down a lot at times but I guess I found this thread too tempting. To add... There are so many mutants that you wonder what's the point if you are only going to use the same characters again and again. And there are many smaller character that have some connections at least to the mainstays re: your examples Darkstar's to Bobby and Warren and Sara to Jean... that taking advantage of it would make such interactions seem less contrived and a reason to bring characters to the forefront. I think too many times now people will put certain characters together and force them into roles instead of building it up with an in story reason and then graduate to something bigger but that's thoughts for another topic I guess.
    I...for one...would like to see their stories. If not a series focusing on resurrected characters then backup stories across the line of X-Books.

  10. #445
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MentalManipulator View Post
    Maddie and Destiny... bring on the chaos!
    And Cable. Inferno 2: Demonic Boogaloo

    Let’s go!

  11. #446
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    752

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    This is a cautionary tale bc lets say a resurrected mutant finds out that the original isnt dead, its going to create the same complication. I think Leah is playing with that in X-Factor with Prodigy. If there are two of them, I think they are going to have to merge somehow. That'll likely mean one dies and the other's memories is added to the other
    Which makes the fact that nobody thought of creating a team like X-factor before they decided to start the mass replication of MILLIONS of dead people quite odd.
    Wouldn't that be the top priority before they greenlight the whole process for everyone? It's like someone creates an insurance company and only after allready shelling out a few millions in money, decides to actualy hire people to investigate if the claims are true.

    As for the solution to the duplicates issue. I think the problem with the idea of just merging the memories is that it would risk creating a split personality or other identity issues to the merged person.
    Because regardless of how perfect multiple copies of the same thing are created, the moment they are used, they start to diverge from their original identical state. While it can still be said they are the same object, they obviously aren't identical anymore.

    The same would theoretical apply to people too, since a person is shaped by their experience and reflection on them, which is a process that keeps on going until their death.
    Now of course throughout their life a person develops firm opinions, biases and characteristics that defines who they are and which will seldomly radically change, but the potential for changes, small or big, is always there.
    So if you create two exact duplicates of the same person, they will start to stop being identical the moment they start to live their individual lifes. A difference that will grow bigger the longer they exist.

    Hence why merging two different sets of memories into a singular new one would likely come with a massive risk of identity issues or memory association and even if the fusion has sucessfully resulted in a stable individual, there would be the question on what ever the fused person is either of the two old ones or a third new one.

    The later would also create an issue when it comes to the memory backups stored on Cerebro, because now there would be the question if the new fused individual should replace the previous stored copy of one of the old individuals (meaning said indvidual is dead now) or if the merged person should count as new individual and get a seperated memory slot?

    Which in turn raises the question of what would happen if both versions of replicated mutant would decide that they don't want to risk merging, because both could claim to be a new indvidual and therefor in the right to be treated seperatly.

    It's a subject which has been explored a lot in fantasy and science fiction.

    And it certainly does explain why they don't want to have clones under any means necessary.
    It's also one of the several reasons why this whole process is likely not going to survive beyond Hickman's run, since it not only creates in universe headaches but is also narratively unsustainable in a super hero franchise with constant duplicates, fake or locked away memories, time travel and paralell universes.
    Last edited by Grunty; 03-03-2021 at 05:50 PM.

  12. #447
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    22,166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam-X View Post
    You must be an older reader like myself?

    If she was a clone and an extension of Jean - how come she never displayed any powers until Inferno?
    She was a latent mutant and Claremont retconned her as having used TP back in UXM 201 to influence Scott's fight with Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    But her personal experiences make her a unique individual.

    I dont think thats how its being treated though.

    OG Jean lives and "dies" in UXM 100. She is replaced by Phoenix
    Phoenix lives and dies in UXM 139. She is replaced by Maddie
    Maddie lives and in this time we learn that OG Jean never died. Maddie dies in Inferno and all 3 are merged into Jean as her soul existed within all 3 beings. They were fragments of the same person and made whole again
    Last edited by Havok83; 03-03-2021 at 06:05 PM.

  13. #448
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    2,565

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bozack View Post
    Jamie Madrox since Hickman and company are treating a well-developed character with a unique powerset like he's still dead.
    I think they don't know what to do with Layla Miller and their child

  14. #449
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    2,565

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Not really...it was everything that led to her finding out she was a clone that caused the problems. Sinister's manipulations, Scott's abandoning her, the Marauders trying to kill her...

    Maddie being a clone of Jean is no different than the Cuckoos being clones of Emma...it's the treatment of them as individuals that can cause the problems.
    I don't think it's set in stone that the Cuckoos are clones of Emma. Bendis planned on revealing who their father is. Canonwise I think we don't know if they are clones of Emma or clones of a daughter of Emma created in a lab by Sublime, with the genetic material of a still unknown father. In Here Comes Tomorrow they don't age, and they seem to be natural blondes too.

    Maddy doesn't get resurrected because it looks like high ranking mutants have the authority to greatly delay or stop resurrections of villains they hate, like Emma with regards to her sisters (one of them was the murderer of Synch pretty much), or Xavier eternally delaying the resurrection of Destiny

  15. #450
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,348

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lurkerforyears View Post
    I think they don't know what to do with Layla Miller and their child
    Agreed. They don't seem to want to put him in the same boat as Cyclops by continuing to use the character after sort of pretending he doesn't have a wife and child they don't want to use.

    Plus I'm not sure he's that popular with various writers who aren't Peter David. He tends to get overlooked a lot, and lacks some visual flair, being basically 'army of identical dudes.' Honestly, I'd rather see him not in a prominent role but as 'support guy' who shows up in *every* book in the background doing something, because there are like *fifty* of him wandering around Krakoa and the Savage Land and the SWORD station and Emma's island retreat (where he's pretty much the entire waitstaff) and Forge and Sage's labs, doing all sorts of background stuff that needs doing and 'face' mutants are too busy to do (or have powers that are more useful elsewhere that overseeing drug-farms and shipping manifests and equipment maintenance and lab work and checking security feeds).

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •