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  1. #196
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    Just watched the latest episode and I do like how they are making Harley go through the different stages of a battered abused girlfriend. Harley was so co-dependent on Joker for years that she can't seem to stay still and goes from one obsession to the next. First it was getting into the legion of doom, then it was taking down the injustice league, with multiple issues, distractions, and backsliding during those periods. Additionally, they are having Ivy make a logical decision to recognize her friend for the type of person she is now and realize she wouldn't be good relationship material as she would bounce from her eventually as well.

    Have to say that the writers are doing a great job with the emotional aspects of this storyline as it can very relatable to individuals who have been in a past abusive relationship and the journey they go through to try and break their codependent tendencies which includes looking themselves in the mirror at some point and realizing who they are and who they want to be. Same goes for friends of individuals from battered relationships, having to deal with insecurities, relapses, codependencies, and other things. At some point that weighs on them too and an emotional wall of protection has to be put up so they don't continue to be hurt or disappointed.
    Last edited by ComicJunkie21; 05-30-2020 at 05:36 AM.

  2. #197
    Mighty Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dswynne;4986322[B
    ]I don't think that there are "innocents" on this show[/B]; just "civilians". Remember the guy who was talking the Ivy, while she was being held by the Scarecrow in Season 1? The guy apparently is a "goon" as a side-job.t seems to me that in this "universe", costumed superheroes/villains are treated as celebrities. I mean, why would there be a Legion of Doom chapter in the middle of Gotham City? And in this latest episode, Gordon was rallying people to go out and attack Harley and her crew. Not exactly standard police work...
    How about in season one where Queen of Fables kills the whole family at the picnic? They showed kids there and she kills them. Were they not innocent?
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  3. #198
    Mighty Member 90'sCartoonMan's Avatar
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    I love the idea of a Bachelorette Party on Themyscira. Not only that but Harley knowing that Ivy would want to take down someone damaging the environment. Was that Tahani as Eris? That's awesome!

    The Little Mermaid parody with King Shark was also a lot of fun. I guess fish would probably find it restricting that up on land, we have to go to special rooms to expel waste. I keep wishing we could get more Frank, but now I'm wondering why they didn't have room for both him and Dr. Psycho.

    As for Harley hooking up with Ivy a couple times...I'm still not sold on their romance. It seems Ivy would get involved with Harley if it weren't for Harley's past, which makes things even worse because that's admitting that Kite-Man is her consolation prize. That sucks for everyone involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I got the implication Psycho lost the last time he fought Granny. They basically had to cheat and take her by surprise.
    But still, all Dr. Psycho had to do was fling a column at her and take Granny Goodness out. Felt too easy for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Is there anything Catwoman cares about beyond stealing stuff?
    I'd like to think that Selina does care about Harley and Ivy to an extent, she just doesn't want to admit it to them (or herself) because she cares more about her reputation. At the very least, she probably understands that she can't have alone time 24/7 and has to have some social interaction every now and then.

    Quote Originally Posted by lilyrose View Post
    Once again though, I totally disagree with their characterization of Harley. She's not somebody who "runs from one thing to another," if anything she's a co-dependent, submissive personality who obsessively latches on to anyone who shows her affection and does what they want, which is the explanation for her entire relationship with the Joker! From the very beginning, Paul Dini and Bruce Timm described her as the equivalent of the battered wife/girlfriend who always goes back to the abusive partner no matter what he does. That was who Harley Quinn is. And that explained (even on the animated series) her original connection to Poison Ivy as well, as basically a replacement partner instead of Joker when he wasn't there to lead her around. She has THAT kind of personality, one who needs somebody to be with.
    I haven't read much modern Harley Quinn stories...has she moved past that? She's got her own adventures and works with the Suicide Squad, so it seems to me that they have turned her into a character who isn't just the co-dependent henchwoman that Dini and Timm created in the early 90's. Given her characterization on this show (particularly who she is post-Joker break-up), I could see Ivy feeling that way about her.

  4. #199
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sCartoonMan View Post
    As for Harley hooking up with Ivy a couple times...I'm still not sold on their romance. It seems Ivy would get involved with Harley if it weren't for Harley's past, which makes things even worse because that's admitting that Kite-Man is her consolation prize. That sucks for everyone involved.
    You could tell Ivy was seriously considering it before she made her decision at the end of the episode...which means she would have probably gone for it if not for her concerns about Harley.

    Kite Man deserves better.
    But still, all Dr. Psycho had to do was fling a column at her and take Granny Goodness out. Felt too easy for me.
    Yeah, you would kind of expect Granny to be a little sturdier then that.

  5. #200
    Northern Lights Beaubier's Avatar
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    Definitely agree that the emotional aspects are being very well handled. I also like that Harley is trying to do her best by Ivy, she’s not intentionally trying to sabotage Ivy’s relationship with Kite Man.

    Though as much as Kite Man comes across as a wholesome guy in the show, it’s hard to picture Ivy settling down with him. It’s only a matter of time at this point.

  6. #201
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaubier View Post
    Definitely agree that the emotional aspects are being very well handled. I also like that Harley is trying to do her best by Ivy, she’s not intentionally trying to sabotage Ivy’s relationship with Kite Man.

    Though as much as Kite Man comes across as a wholesome guy in the show, it’s hard to picture Ivy settling down with him. It’s only a matter of time at this point.
    There isn't anything about this version of Ivy that leads me to believe she wouldn't settle down. Ivy spend most of time on this show being dragged into villainy treating it like a chore almost.

  7. #202
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaubier View Post
    Definitely agree that the emotional aspects are being very well handled. I also like that Harley is trying to do her best by Ivy, she’s not intentionally trying to sabotage Ivy’s relationship with Kite Man.
    I think she pretty firmly stopped caring about Kite Man when she confessed her feelings to Ivy, unless she was planning on letting their relationship be a side-thing while Ivy still marries Kite Man (which I doubt).
    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    There isn't anything about this version of Ivy that leads me to believe she wouldn't settle down. Ivy spend most of time on this show being dragged into villainy treating it like a chore almost.
    Yeah, usually she's the one telling Harley to tone it down or relax.

  8. #203
    Incredible Member the nomad's Avatar
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    Guarantee by the end of this season or probably around the time of the wedding Ivy will leave Kite Man for Harley. Or maybe they may do something along the lines of what's happening with King Shark. Like Kite Man and Ivy will be married but there's a rule in their vows making room for Harley. But I'm thinking it's one of those options.

    Personally I was more interested in the close friendship that they had in Season one and the beginning of season two. The relationship kinda feels out of left field a bit but it's whatever. I still enjoy the show but ugh they made me care about Ivy and Kite Man.

    Also I'm betting Doctor Psycho revives joker, just bc he's a petty bastard lol.

  9. #204
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    Re: Latest episode:

    Damn

  10. #205
    Northern Lights Beaubier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    There isn't anything about this version of Ivy that leads me to believe she wouldn't settle down. Ivy spend most of time on this show being dragged into villainy treating it like a chore almost.
    In the last episode, Ivy basically said that weekend they had was the height of living and how she wanted her life to be. Kite Man, in the other hand, immediately just wanted to chill at home when she got back. Which Ivy is clearly ok with, but she seems to prefer a more exciting life (if emotional stability as well)

    In any case, it seems a common rule that happy couples make boring television in the eyes of writers, as infuriating as that can be for viewers. Objectively, there’s more interesting story to come from Ivy and Kite Man not getting domestic than from them having a happy marriage.

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    Re: Latest episode:

    Damn
    This was a really good episode. But I've gotta say, I've said a couple of times this season that for me Harley has become the most annoying character on the show, but it is NO coincidence that in this very Harley-centric episode the thing that makes it intriguing is the Joker being back and their dark, twisted dynamic lingering under the surface once more.

    I'm sorry, but that is what makes Harley Quinn interesting. It just is. Ever since her creation, what drove the fascination was the dark, tragic, disturbed connection/relationship with the Joker. Yes, it's disturbing and dark. But without that she's just kind of an ineffectual character who wanders around that no one can figure out how to treat as a hero or villain. Every iteration of her I've ever seen confirms my opinion.

  12. #207
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    It's almost easy to forget that Harley is a knockout even though she wears such a skimpy costume, but seeing her get all dolled up in that dress and let her hair down really showcases her natural beauty.

    I thought they were finally going to confirm that this version of Clayface was into guys before they pulled a bait and switch that he was planning to watch the Tony's...though him admiring buff Riddler and his reaction the idea of him and Psycho being lovers pretty firmly indicates the truth.

    It was nice to finally see Sy again, even if apparently he only came back just to die, but at least he went out in a blaze of glory. I am wondering if there's some of his consciousness in that eye he gave Harley so they can revive him somehow?

    I kind of feel bad for sane!Joker (I guess we will never find out what his name was?). He seems like a completely innocent, hapless, and pure dude but you knew he was eventually going to revert back into being Joker. And irony upon ironies is that it's Harley of all people who brings Joker back. I wonder if the chemical dip will have him back to normal or if a third dip is going to leave any lasting effects?

    Are we seeing the first steps towards Harley becoming a hero or not being an active villain anymore? She's finally deciding to clean up her messes and accept responsibility for what she's done (short of probably doing actual jail time for it, I imagine), and is once again teaming up with the "good guys" to take out a bigger threat. I guess it'll be interesting to see what's next for her after they free the Justice League.

    I guess when you think about it Psycho and Harley would have probably never worked out in the long-run, and now Psycho has taken over top villain status (such as it is). Which is kind of ironic because he's voiced by another Joker VA in Tony Hale.

  13. #208
    Mighty Member 90'sCartoonMan's Avatar
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    It's weird, but I'm kind of sad that Psycho is breaking away from Harley's squad. Seems like everyone was bonding. At least Clayface and King Shark are pretty loyal.

    Nice to see Gordon taking command of the GCPD again and trying to clean up the city...while also being TMI about his genitals.

    Harley has the worst luck ever running into Bartender Joker again. She can't run from her problems!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I thought they were finally going to confirm that this version of Clayface was into guys before they pulled a bait and switch that he was planning to watch the Tony's...though him admiring buff Riddler and his reaction the idea of him and Psycho being lovers pretty firmly indicates the truth.
    I'd like to see a pansexual Clayface that can shapeshift into a woman to date a man or into a man to date a woman and anything in between. Riddler and Psycho's business partnership reminded me of what happened between Riddler and Penguin on Gotham.

  14. #209
    Northern Lights Beaubier's Avatar
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    I’m a little sad about it too tbh. I really liked Psycho as part of the crew.

    King Shark is my fav though, so as long as he sticks around I’m happy lol

  15. #210
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sCartoonMan View Post
    It's weird, but I'm kind of sad that Psycho is breaking away from Harley's squad. Seems like everyone was bonding. At least Clayface and King Shark are pretty loyal.
    I think Psycho was definitely close to Clayface and King Shark but I don't think he and Harley ever grew to like each other, at least to a significant extent.
    I'd like to see a pansexual Clayface that can shapeshift into a woman to date a man or into a man to date a woman and anything in between. Riddler and Psycho's business partnership reminded me of what happened between Riddler and Penguin on Gotham.
    He is a method actor...

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