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  1. #46
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    I have to agree with the majority and say Spidercide. Kaine was already positioned as the "villainous" clone in the titles. So, in a way, Spidercide was redundant. The more clones that showed up, the shittier the whole thing became (looking at you Maximum Clonage).

    Also, what the hell is the deal with Judas Traveller and his various associates? I know they were explained away as being pawns of Norman in his quest for revenge, but in hindsight their entire narrative seems totally out of place with everything else going on.
    Maybe it's because, despite being introduced at the beginning of the Clone Saga, Judas Traveller didn't actually have anything to do with Jackal or the clone stuff. He was intrigued by the two Spider-Men, but originally I'm sure the plan was to develop a backstory for him, some motivation, completely unrelated to the Clone Saga.

    It was only retroactively declared that Judas was a pawn of Osborn, just as a way of tidying up loose ends.

    One of J.M. DeMatteis' rare misses.

    -Pav, who did end up liking the Cabal of Scriers...
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  2. #47
    Mighty Member LifeIsILL's Avatar
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    I remember the J.M.DeMatteis written issues during this time were pretty good though

  3. #48
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeIsILL View Post
    I remember the J.M.DeMatteis written issues during this time were pretty good though
    Especially when he was delving into Ben and Kaine's backstory in "The Lost Years" and "Redemption" miniseries.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  4. #49
    More eldritch than thou Venomous Mask's Avatar
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    The appearances of Traveller's henchmen made them look like edgier versions of the Burger King kids.
    "I should describe my known nature as tripartite, my interests consisting of three parallel and disassociated groups; a) love of the strange and the fantastic, b) love of abstract truth and scientific logic, c) love of the ancient and the permanent. Sundry combinations of these strains will probably account for my...odd tastes, and eccentricities."

  5. #50
    Radioactive! Spiderfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Especially when he was delving into Ben and Kaine's backstory in "The Lost Years" and "Redemption" miniseries.
    Yesss! Those were so good, really showed how human Ben and Kaine were, and that they weren't just Peter 2.0 and actually struggled with who they were.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venomous Mask View Post
    The appearances of Traveller's henchmen made them look like edgier versions of the Burger King kids.
    Hah! I think you're right, damn now I'm getting all sorts of 90's nostalgia flashbacks.
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pav View Post
    Maybe it's because, despite being introduced at the beginning of the Clone Saga, Judas Traveller didn't actually have anything to do with Jackal or the clone stuff. He was intrigued by the two Spider-Men, but originally I'm sure the plan was to develop a backstory for him, some motivation, completely unrelated to the Clone Saga.

    It was only retroactively declared that Judas was a pawn of Osborn, just as a way of tidying up loose ends.

    One of J.M. DeMatteis' rare misses.

    -Pav, who did end up liking the Cabal of Scriers...
    That's what I mean. They tried to salvage it by saying him and his cohorts were only involved due to Norman. But Traveller was so far outside Peter's warehouse that it makes me wonder what the original intention for him was. Because there is no way he was conceived with The Clone Saga in mind. But, then again, this is the Spider-Office circa 94 - 96. So not much really made sense.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by LifeIsILL View Post
    I remember the J.M.DeMatteis written issues during this time were pretty good though
    They were. But something can still be written well and end up poorly executed. If he had been allowed to do things his way, I reckon it would have been a different story. Because he clearly had plans for Ben and Kaine (J.M was also the one who championed The Clone Saga idea when Kavanagh suggested it. The Spider-Office only went with it because they had nothing else.)

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    They were. But something can still be written well and end up poorly executed. If he had been allowed to do things his way, I reckon it would have been a different story. Because he clearly had plans for Ben and Kaine (J.M was also the one who championed The Clone Saga idea when Kavanagh suggested it. The Spider-Office only went with it because they had nothing else.)
    The Clone Saga envisioned by DeMatteis was just a good six part mini-series intended as a contemporary sequel to the 70s Clone Saga.

    Marvel filling in chapter 7, Onslaught/Heroes Reborn being arguably the worst flop both commercially and quality wise in Marvel's history, generally poor sales when DC was dominating and Image/Top Cow were making their names, poor business decisions, editorial meddling at his worst, necessity of placing all the best creative teams into Spider-Man volumes (Howard Mackie didn't want to come back to Spider-Man as he battled with cancer and only wanted to complete his unfinished Ghost Rider story, something he did in 1998, if I am not mistaken; DeMatteis was burnt out by then) did the rest.


    The original 6-parter had no Spidercide, Maximum Clonage, Scriers, Judas Traveller, no pregnant MJ beating, and lesser roles to The new genetically altered Jackal, Kaine and Seward Trainer. The only good thing left out was Aunt May's death from ASM 400, and even then, the story could have been told without Ben Reilly and was retconned in the worst way possible.


    So (almost) everything bad coming from the Clone Saga was not the Writers/Artists fault.


    I'd dare to say that DeMatteis' execution, even if bad, really bad, was still better than what any other less talented/experienced writer could have ever wrote.

    God, try to image Dan Slott writing the Clone Saga as Editorial mandate...

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