DC's "new" timeline revealed at NYCC

[Restingvoice]

Besides New 52 has JSA ever been set in anything other than WW2 era? I mean when they began

Counting everything

[MajorHoy]

I wouldn't even mind dropping Batman Year One since that didn't do Catwoman or Jim Gordon any favors. (And that didn't feature Barbara as Jim's own daughter; she was the daughter of Jim's brother and Jim's sister-in-law, wasn't she back then?)

And this is how we got into the mess with over a decade of Didio trying to undo stuff that he personally didn't care for such as Wally being the Flash or Cassandra Cain Batman. Or how the 80s/90s regime at DC got rid of the GLC, the multiverse, and the Kara Zor-el Superman because of their own personal tastes. Did the fandom learn nothing from the past 4 decades?

But you make it sound as if Batman: Year One has always been canon, rather than a story that was created nearly 50 years after Batman was first introduced.

I remember when Batman #404 first came out how jarring the changes to Batman and others were to me.

[Bruce Wayne]

And to many people who were born afterwards, Y1 is basically the start of Batman for them. Again privileging one's own personal experiences (of what stories "count") over the opinions/experiences of the entire fandom is how Didio and his predecessors ran things into the ground.

[DABellWrites]

Besides New 52 has JSA ever been set in anything other than WW2 era? I mean when they began

Counting everything

Always WW2.

[Dataweaver]

I do think the JSA can work without the WWII connection, but wouldn't the DCU feel like a less historied place without it?
Removing the JSA from WWII would leave a pretty big void in the DCU's history. It would be like Marvel without Captain America and the Invaders.
The best solution to the JSA problem is to have them timetravel to around the time Kal-El's rocket landed on Earth, so the Infinity Inc characters could be around the Titans' ages. I know most of the popular OG JSAers that are still around have power-related excuses for not aging as much, but the likes of Hour Man, Liberty Belle, Atom, Black Canary and Starman still create problems because their kids are all around the League's ages.

What's with the assumption that if the JSA time travels, they have to leave the past the moment they create to be active? It's just as easy to just leave them in the past four a decade or two to give the Infinitors time to be born and grow up, and then arrange a time jump. And it has the advantages that their arrival in the present can coincide with Flash of Two Worlds, instead of trying to explain why they didn't come out of retirement when Superman showed up in Metropolis or the Starro attack triggered the formation of the Justice League. As is, you'll want a time travel event that grabs more than just the JSA, so that family members and friends who are part of their supporting casts have an excise to be pulled to the present with them: you don't want Jay in the present while Joan is left to grow old and die back in the early 20th century, for example.

[Restingvoice]

Always WW2.

Well, then that's the answer. We're not changing things unless it's necessary. Keep it in WW2, adjust the other things.

Next question.

Our focus should always be the status quo of the present because most stories sold by DC are set in the present. So what is the status quo for those WW2 JSA in the present day? Alive? Dead? Active? Retired? Others?

Don't think about how they age, what's their age, where they've been or which Earth they're staying yet. Just think of where do you want them to be now, or the last time they show up in the present day. What are they doing?

[king81992]

Well, then that's the answer. We're not changing things unless it's necessary. Keep it in WW2, adjust the other things.

Next question.

Our focus should always be the status quo of the present because most stories sold by DC are set in the present. So what is the status quo for those WW2 JSA in the present day? Alive? Dead? Active? Retired? Others?

Don't think about how they age, what's their age, or where they've been yet. Just think of where do you want them to be now, or the last time they show up in the present day. Where and what are they doing?

Some should be alive and active, some should be alive and retired, and unfortunately, some will be dead.

Jay should be mentoring the next generation of heroes, a mentor for Barry(he needs one based on some of his bad decisions)and the in-universe author of Flash comics, loosely based on his solo adventures.

[Dataweaver]

Or, how about this for an even more radical idea: replace the Earth One / Earth 2 divide with a present/past divide. That is, leave the JSA in the 20th century, at least until the crisis on infinite Earths; but replace the cross World stuff with time travel. Flash of Two Worlds, for example, becomes a story where Barry travels back in time to 1961 and encounters Jay garrick. The annual team-ups become time travel crossovers between the 20th and 21st centuries. Similar to the way Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes works, but with 60-going-on-100 years separating them instead of a thousand years separating them. Then, after the Crisis hits, the JSA migrates to the present, and they become a contemporary team. That is, keep all of the JSA's Golden, Silver, and Bronze Age adventures in the 20th century; and only move them to the present for the post-Crisis stuff.

[DABellWrites]

I'll just say this: you can't leave the JSA in the past, because they weren't left in the past. You're talking as of you have cart blanch to do whatever you want with the IP; but that's the other part that got us into this mess. The purpose here, as I see it, isn't just to “come up with a new timeline”; it's to do so in a way that treats what's come before with respect.

Are you referring to me? Because I'm not proposing to do whatever you want. Just explore new ideas for these characters, take risk again. Doing whatever you want was the new52. Exploring new ideas and taking risk is looking at these characters and asking what can be done differently. The purpose of DC Comics is to tell stories for the long-run. So, why not explore other ideas? A JSA not connected to WW2? Isn't a bad idea when done right. The JSA in 1950 was already doing JLA-like stories already, no connection or mention WW2. So yeah, I see no problem.

I should mention I'm more interested in a DC Universe that's played "straight". So, Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman are active alongside the other golden agers. So, my I am bias. Not set in the 1940s towards the idea.

[Dataweaver]

The catch is that the Silver age introduced the notion of there being two distinct Supermen, Wonder Women, and Batmen, one in the Golden Age and one in the Silver age. And when I say distinct, I'm referring not just to them, but also to their supporting casts. Golden Age Superman ended up marrying his Lois Lane and becoming editor of the Daily Star, and his cousin from Krypton turned out to be power girl. Batman married Catwoman and had a daughter, Helena AKA Huntress; and then Helena was orphaned. Wonder Woman married Steve Trevor and had a daughter, Lyta AKA Fury. Trying to keep the same Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman active in both the Golden Age and the Silver Age runs into problems because of this. Trying to have separate Supermen, Wonder Women, and Batmen for the Golden and Silver Ages has its own problems.

[king81992]

The catch is that the Silver age introduced the notion of there being two distinct Supermen, Wonder Women, and Batmen, one in the Golden Age and one in the Silver age. And when I say distinct, I'm referring not just to them, but also to their supporting casts. Golden Age Superman ended up marrying his Lois Lane and becoming editor of the Daily Star, and his cousin from Krypton turned out to be power girl. Batman married Catwoman and had a daughter, Helena AKA Huntress; and then Helena was orphaned. Wonder Woman married Steve Trevor and had a daughter, Lyta AKA Fury. Trying to keep the same Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman active in both the Golden Age and the Silver Age runs into problems because of this. Trying to have separate Supermen, Wonder Women, and Batmen for the Golden and Silver Ages has its own problems.

If it were up to me, it would be one Superman, Batman and WW in both Silver + Golden age, I'd just adjust things:

Superman marries Lois become editor of the Daily Star/ Planet and eventually have Jon. Super girl, Superman's cousin eventually takes the mantle of Power Girl (I've always felt that making SG and PG separate characters hurt both of them, and I'm a fan of each one individually).

WW marries Steve Trevor and has Lyra, who eventually becomes Fury (snd possibly WW?).

Batman marries Catwoman early in his career and they have Helena, who eventually becomes Huntress(not sure if I'd kill off Bruce or Selina, them being alive has more story potential). This also makes Batman more well adjusted instead of the bitter shell of a man who can't save anyone, treats his allies like crap and makes everything worse in the current continuity.

[MajorHoy]

And to many people who were born afterwards, Y1 is basically the start of Batman for them. Again privileging one's own personal experiences (of what stories "count") over the opinions/experiences of the entire fandom is how Didio and his predecessors ran things into the ground.

But wouldn't people treating Batman: Year One as a sacred cow also be "privileging one's own personal experiences (of what stories "count") over the opinions/experiences" of others who don't feel the same?

And what about more recent readers who may feel "Zero Year" is the most important beginning of Batman story?

[Digifiend]

And Dinah also joined the Justice League shortly after Wonder Woman left to do her Mrs. Peel thing.

Barry was shipping Clark and Diana in 1969? So the possibility of them being a couple wasn't just a New 52 thing then?

[Vordan]

Barry was shipping Clark and Diana in 1969? So the possibility of them being a couple wasn't just a New 52 thing then?

…you thought New 52 was the first time that was a thing? Kingdom Come, For The Man Who Has Everything, and plenty of Post Crisis stories toyed with the idea.

[king81992]

But wouldn't people treating Batman: Year One as a sacred cow also be "privileging one's own personal experiences (of what stories "count") over the opinions/experiences" of others who don't feel the same?

And what about more recent readers who may feel "Zero Year" is the most important beginning of Batman story?

Honestly, there is no right answer. Personally, I think that a comprehensive timeline only makes sense if DC tore everything down and started from scratch. As things are now, with all the history, events become contradictory and some of it will have to be thrown out, which will alienate one group of fans or another.

Then there are events/storylines regarded as iconic, that look sketchy today(or were they sketchy the whole time and people never noticed/ willfully ignored?). Do they get thrown out or altered?