DC's "new" timeline revealed at NYCC

[bat39]

The world switching/dimensional shenanigans makes everything too convoluted.

If everything were kept on one Earth, I'd say make Super Girl and Power Girl the same character. Kara arrives on Earth, gets taken in by Lois and Clark, takes the mantle of Super Girl and eventually becomes Power Girl.

I don't know enough about the Black Canaries and their lore to comment on that.

Wonder Woman returning to Themyscria during the 1950s is the least convoluted option.

We are talking about ways to incorporate the JSA into mainstream continuity...and that mainstream continuity must include Supergirl as a distinct character.

The thing with the JSA is that one way or the other, any explanation to keep them around in the present day will be convoluted. Making them ridiculously old and immortal, time-travel, parallel/pocket universes...convolution is just the name of the beast.

[Dataweaver]

I've been thinking about the power girl situation for a while now, but haven't brought it up because I've been trying to tackle one problem at a time. I think a way to solve it would be to go ahead and put Superman back into the Golden Age timeline. That has its own difficulties to work out; but those largely involved getting Superman from where he was at the end of Crisis on Infinite Earths (when he and Lois went off into a pocket dimension) to where he was at the beginning of the modern age. It could be that the effects of what he went through at the end of the Crisis effectively deaged him and Lois and somehow reinserted them into the timeline near the start of the 21st century's floating timeline. The main problem there is Lois. First of all, the Lois who left at the end of the Crisis was married to Clark. Second, there's the matter of how she connects to the 21st Century Lanes. The former is mainly a problem in the sense that having Lois married to Clark from the very start of the modern era contradicts so much.

And third, messing with the “Paradise Dimension” thing messes big time with Infinite Crisis.

[king81992]

We are talking about ways to incorporate the JSA into mainstream continuity...and that mainstream continuity must include Supergirl as a distinct character.

The thing with the JSA is that one way or the other, any explanation to keep them around in the present day will be convoluted. Making them ridiculously old and immortal, time-travel, parallel/pocket universes...convolution is just the name of the beast.

You could use Linda Danvers and Cir El as distinct Supergirls, but they would come much later.

The only JSA members who should be alive or active in the modern era are the ones with enhanced longevity: Jay Garrick, Alan Scott, Dr. Fate, Wild Cat and the Hawks(whether long-lived by virtue of being aliens or reincarnation shenanigans, I'm not sure, their entire history is a whole can of worms). I might be missing a few members who might be long lived.

[Dataweaver]

You could use Linda Danvers and Cir El as distinct Supergirls, but they would come much later.

The only JSA members who should be alive or active in the modern era are the ones with enhanced longevity: Jay Garrick, Alan Scott, Dr. Fate, Wild Cat and the Hawks(whether long-lived by virtue of being aliens or reincarnation shenanigans, I'm not sure, their entire history is a whole can of worms). I might be missing a few members who might be long lived.

We're trying not to throw out existing continuity; and that would throw out a lot of continuity.

[Factor]

Just make Power Girl the Supergirl of Earth-2 again. That's the simplest solution.
Have her trapped on Earth-0 following the Crisis with no recolection of her previous life at first.
If Earth-0 Kara Zor-El ever gets another condename, it's Superwoman, not Power Girl.

[Dataweaver]

The problem with that solution is that When your goal is to fit as much continuity as possible onto a single earth, invoking additional Earth should be a last resort, not the first go to. So yeah, saying that power girl is from another earth is a possible solution; but it is one that should only be invoked after all possibilities of her coming from the same earth have been eliminated.

That said, I agree with you that Earth Zero's Supergirl should never become Power Girl, or vice versa. I personally would not mind if Power Girl remains an anomaly who does not actually fit into Earth zero's timeline. Again though, that should only be after we have exhausted the alternatives.

[Factor]

I don't think the goal SHOULD be to fit everything onto a single Earth.
The Multiverse concept still has tons of potential and some of the alternate excuses for not having more than one Earth end up being more convoluted.
Plus many characters actually benefit a great deal from the Multiverse's existence, like PG, Helena Wayne, Crime Syndicate, Calvin Ellis and so on.

I think the goal should be to create a more comprehensible timeline for the main Earth, but not at the cost of concepts such as the multiverse. They're part of the DC's charm.
The new timeline should try incorporating elements that make sense together and are of service to what the current incarnations of the heroes should be. So as much as I like Golden Age Superman, having him debut in the 30s creates more problems than making Superman debut 20 to 15 years ago.
That's why it's nice to have a Multiverse where the Original Earth is still around and DC could play with the toys that don't really fit the main DCU anymore.

[Dataweaver]

Having a single Earth where it all happened (or rather, as much of it happened as can be done while being consistent) doesn't preclude a multiverse; and at no point have I ever suggested that it should replace the multiverse. But if you design the timeline of the primary Earth to be as self-contained as possible, then you don't have to worry about issues such as which Earth Earth 2 interacted with in the silver and bronze ages: Earth 0, or Earth 1985? You don't need to consider the possibility of there being duplicate Earth twos that differ only in terms of which other Earth they interfaced with. It is cleaner to keep the dual Earths thing as an Earth 1985/Earth 2 thing, and to leave Earth 0's history up to now as clear of Earth 2 entanglements as possible.

Mind you: as of the Totality, Earth 0's isolation from the Multiverse is at an end. But that's now, and in the future; it's not the past.

[Aahz]

If you would want to keep the ages of the characters somewhat in line with how old they were written to be in the comics, the pre flashpoint timeline would look imo something like that (at least for Batman).
The ages post flashpoint make no sense imo, so I didn't extended my timeline further.

Year 1: Bruce becomes Batman, Selina becomes Catwoman
Year 2: Death of Dick's Parents (age 12)
Year 3: Dick becomes Robin
Year 4: -
Year 5: Justice League and Teen Titans are foundet
Year 6: Barbara Becomes Batgirl (age 18???)
Year 7: -
Year 8: Dick goes to collage
Year 9: New Teen Titans are founded, Jason steals the tires of the Batmobil and becomes Robin (age 12), Dick becomes Nightwing
Year 10: Crisis on Infinite Earths
Year 11: Barbara is crippled, Jason dies, Tim traines and becomes Robin (age 13), Helena Bertinelli becomes Huntress (age 21)
Year 12: Stephanie becomes Spoiler (age 15), Knightfall, Jean Paul becomes first Batman and later Azrael (age 22 ???), Contagination
Year 13: No Man's Land, Cassandra becomes Batgirl (age 16)
Year 14: New Gotham, Fugative, Jean Paul dies
Year 15: Hush, Wargames, Under the Red Hood, Kate becomes Batwoman (age 32), Damian becomes Robin (age 10), tim becomes Red robin, Steph becomes Batgirl, Cassandra becomes Black Bat

[Dataweaver]

If you would want to keep the ages of the characters somewhat in line with how old they were written to be in the comics, the pre flashpoint timeline would look imo something like that (at least for Batman).
The ages post flashpoint make no sense imo, so I didn't extended my timeline further.

Year 1: Bruce becomes Batman, Selina becomes Catwoman
Year 2: Death of Dick's Parents (age 12)
Year 3: Dick becomes Robin
Year 4: -
Year 5: Justice League and Teen Titans are foundet
Year 6: Barbara Becomes Batgirl (age 18???)
Year 7: -
Year 8: Dick goes to collage
Year 9: New Teen Titans are founded, Jason steals the tires of the Batmobil and becomes Robin (age 12), Dick becomes Nightwing
Year 10: Crisis on Infinite Earths
Year 11: Barbara is crippled, Jason dies, Tim traines and becomes Robin (age 13), Helena Bertinelli becomes Huntress (age 21)
Year 12: Stephanie becomes Spoiler (age 15), Knightfall, Jean Paul becomes first Batman and later Azrael (age 22 ???), Contagination
Year 13: No Man's Land, Cassandra becomes Batgirl (age 16)
Year 14: New Gotham, Fugative, Jean Paul dies
Year 15: Hush, Wargames, Under the Red Hood, Kate becomes Batwoman (age 32), Damian becomes Robin (age 10), tim becomes Red robin, Steph becomes Batgirl, Cassandra becomes Black Bat

You're cramming way too much into year 15. The timeline advanced at least a little. You should have a minimum of a year 16, maybe even 17.

[Aahz]

You're cramming way too much into year 15. The timeline advanced at least a little. You should have a minimum of a year 16, maybe even 17.

Then it is impossible to keep Tim at 17 when he becomes Red Robin. And my premise was to keep the character ages intact.
I guess one could push Hush and Wargames down to year 14 or so ...

[Dataweaver]

Then it is impossible to keep Tim at 17 when he becomes Red Robin.

That's a minor sacrifice. Letting him be 18 or 19 or even 20 when he starts running the Wayne company is a small price to pay; especially since he was already acting that age in Red Robin.

But ultimately, that's just a tweak. You are right in that the timeline that was in effect from 1996 to 2006 is a solid Baseline to start from when describing the 21st century heroic age. The only questions that need consideration are how many years to tack on to the end to account for 2006 to 2021, and what to do about the JSA in particular and the golden age in general.

[Dataweaver]

I will have to double check; but I seem to recall that Tim celebrated his 18th birthday near the tail end of his Robin series.

[bat39]

You're cramming way too much into year 15. The timeline advanced at least a little. You should have a minimum of a year 16, maybe even 17.

Yeah, honestly, given Damian's age, less than 20 years (I go with 21) just doesn't work. Ditto with Jon's (chronological) age frankly.

You could say that Batman slept with Talia in Year 1, or Clark and Lois got married pretty early in Superman's career, but it just doesn't do justice to the original stories and the characters as originally presented. That's before you get into all the other chronological conundrums.

I'm okay with superheroes being in their forties. Let's face it, most superhero actors are in their forties, or getting there. If a 45 year old Ben Affleck could be seen kicking ass on-screen, then why can't we accept a 45 year old Bruce Wayne in comics, where suspension of disbelief is even stronger?

[Aahz]

I will have to double check; but I seem to recall that Tim celebrated his 18th birthday near the tail end of his Robin series.

He turned 16 arround Hush and was 17 in red Robin, he turned never 18 in the pre flashpoint comics.