DC's "new" timeline revealed at NYCC

[Zaresh]

Say goodbye to a timeline that try to make even remotely any sense...

"And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what's coming after Future State. Everything. Any story, any character, any creator, any timeline, any reality, anything goes. Freedom for creators to take a story, use what continuity they deem fit, and tell that story to the best of their ability. Call it Hypertime, call it non-continuity, call it Omniverse."

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/deat...-future-state/

So it's Marvel time and continuity approach. Ok.

[Drexelhand]

DC timelines have generally not made sense imo since Infinite Crisis ended when DC decided that continuity was too much of a headache in terms of coordinating editors and writers.

Letting them hard retcon away Superman and Green Lantern's origin stories to put in Geoff Johns' Secret Origins was probably the worst example of this.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

What you'll have is multiple timelines that feed into one giant river of a timeline.

Hypertime, basically. The main river of the DCU will continue, as always. Sometimes being redirected, but somehow always coming back into itself.

Meanwhile, all the alternate timelines can continue however they'd like, with plenty of stand-alone stories whenever creators want one, which often tend to be where the real classics come. Superman Smashes The Klan being a perfect example.

In the main DCU, it will be a continuation of the 80+ years of history, in all its giant inconsistent glory. Superman will be married to Lois, who will have a teenaged Superboy, along with Krypto, Supergirls, and family. Batman will have his own Giant Bat-Family and, of course, Catwoman. Joker will continue to be King Douche of the DCU with an ever expanding gallery of Formerly Evil Ex-Girlfriends. There'll be long legacies of Flashes and Green Lanterns. The Greatest Hits of the DCU will continue to exist regularly, even if that doesn't mean dozens of issues every month.

I expect, going forward, DC books will be a variety of different material aimed at very different audiences. Which is very, very good for comics in the long-term.

In the end, this is all corporate product, and has been for decades, all fans can do is hope that other fans end up being in charge of them for a while and take good care of them.

But, in the end, they all belong to our imaginations, which seems to be the direction the DCU is going in terms of its history and continuities.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Letting them hard retcon away Superman and Green Lantern's origin stories to put in Geoff Johns' Secret Origins was probably the worst example of this.

I thought both of those origins were designed as "pilot episode" pitches for movies and TV. That said, I thought both fit pretty nicely into the squishy continuity of the early Silver/Modern Age Era that DC has always had.

[Ascended]

I expect, going forward, DC books will be a variety of different material aimed at very different audiences. Which is very, very good for comics in the long-term.

In the end, this is all corporate product, and has been for decades, all fans can do is hope that other fans end up being in charge of them for a while and take good care of them.

If it results in higher quality stories and less ink wasted trying to make sense of an eighty year history that has never held together, then I am all for it.

I will take a Superman Smashes the Klan over a crap-fest origin reboot shoved into a continuity not meant to support it any day, every day.

But the average Wednesday Warrior, who makes a career out of keeping track of the continuity and details? They're not gonna like it. We've seen how the direct market reacts to "story over continuity" and it's not pretty. Hopefully this time, DC manages to pull it off and has material in other formats, aimed at other audiences, to make up the difference because I don't see the LCS sales holding up if continuity stops mattering.

But it'd be a good thing for comics if the publishers could convince readers that the story in your hands right now is more important than the story you read twenty years ago.

[Tzigone]

But the average Wednesday Warrior, who makes a career out of keeping track of the continuity and details? They're not gonna like it. We've seen how the direct market reacts to "story over continuity" and it's not pretty. Hopefully this time, DC manages to pull it off and has material in other formats, aimed at other audiences, to make up the difference because I don't see the LCS sales holding up if continuity stops mattering.

I kind of agree that capturing the mainstream/casual audience (that I am not part of) is the best route forward for DC, but I don't know that I think they are capable. They need to get their product out of niche markets and into Wal-Marts. They've tried, but not succeeded in the past at getting that type of reader. I do think appealing to kids again is the way to go. I actually wonder if less shared-universe between heroes even in ongoings (which would be easiest new universes and new heroes) would be a better tactic, too. And, of course, they'd actually have to have good stories with their "story over continuity", which a lot of the time, they don't.

But it'd be a good thing for comics if the publishers could convince readers that the story in your hands right now is more important than the story you read twenty years ago.

Which is fine for an OGN. But when they are all part of the same title (or advertised as part of the same world) and cannot stay consistent for six months or a year (rather than 20 years), that's entirely a different thing.

But yeah, they made their bed appealing to long-time readers in an increasingly niche market (that they helped make that way) a long time ago, and that batch of readers is shrinking. That's a problem. A bigger problem is that they haven't been able to get new buyers, even as they alienate old ones.

I've said before - what's good for DC isn't necessarily what's good for me. I just don't care to pick up the bulks of the books if the characters are basically recognizable-by-name only (rather than characterization, history, etc.) in every story. What's even the point of them being the same characters then? But that will be more suited to casual readers. I really, really think OGNs over monthly floppies is the future, if they aren't gong to shorten stories to one-per-issue. We're a binge-culture. Heck, I don't even like to take months to read a story and binge read old things instead (that, and for lack of "edginess"), and I'm a continuity nerd. But, if DC is no longer producing anything I want to read, if the characters I like are no longer recognizable, I don't really care all that much if they fail, either.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

But it'd be a good thing for comics if the publishers could convince readers that the story in your hands right now is more important than the story you read twenty years ago.

Bingo!

Great stories like Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, Kingdom Come, All Star Superman, and New Frontier have been what's emerged as the very best the DCU can produce. You know what they all have in common? They all love DC history, but they aren't beholden to it.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

But yeah, they made their bed appealing to long-time readers in an increasingly niche market (that they helped make that way) a long time ago, and that batch of readers is shrinking. That's a problem. A bigger problem is that they haven't been able to get new buyers, even as they alienate old ones.

The audience is there. I teach students of all ages and the one thing they all have in common is they all love comics with cool stuff in them and mainstream superhero comics have a lot of really cool stuff in them.

There will always be stuff out there for the hardcore fans, but it shouldn't be the primary source of income.

[Vordan]

I guess this is yet another point where DC just gave up.

I mean... what else can they do? The problem with tight continuity is each story is meant to flow from one to the next. But you start messing around with it and the whole thing breaks. Let’s say DC got rid of the New 52: That means ditching Johns JL, Snyder’s Batman, a lot of New 52 stuff sold well. And a lot of the Pre-Flashpoint stuff did not. So DC wants to keep the New 52 stuff but a lot of that doesn’t work continuity wise because a lot of it is built on it being a reboot or in some cases it not being a reboot (Batman Inc; Johns GL, Swamp Thing, etc).

WW being around since WW2 means Rucka’s run is no longer in continuity, nor does any of her Pre-FP stuff make any sense with that part being true. Barry’s Pre Crisis stuff doesn’t have a dead mom, yet there’s zero chance of them undoing that now. Superman hasn’t been a football star since Waid’s Birthright. Pre-FP Aquaman was a mess, the New 52 was the first time I enjoyed him, and he’s been pretty consistently great ever since aside from Bunn. There’s just too many bits of characterization and history that just flat out don’t work together anymore, thanks to all the reboots. The only way to get a continuity that makes sense is either A. Start a new universe as a separate imprint (and they may end up doing that if rumors are true, or B. An actual reboot. Nothing carries over and we start over completely from square one. Superman solo and unmarried, Batman just starting out with Dick becoming Robin after a year, Arthur as King of Atlantis, Hal or John inducted as a GL and training under Sinestro, etc.

At least I can pretend Morrison’s Action run is still canon now lol.

[Frontier]

I don't think continuity prevents stories in the here and now from being relevant or important. In an ideal world you get stories that build on and use continuity in an organic and genuine way, but I tend to be a fan of the in-continuity stuff as much as I am the standalone stuff.

For every Dark Knight Returns there's a Year One which set the continuity for Post-Crisis Batman, and stuff to that effect.

I don't see this mess of continuity is going to necessarily benefit DC stories.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I don't think continuity prevents stories in the here and now from being relevant or important. In an ideal world you get stories that build on and use continuity in an organic and genuine way, but I tend to be a fan of the in-continuity stuff as much as I am the standalone stuff.

For every Dark Knight Returns there's a Year One which set the continuity for Post-Crisis Batman, and stuff to that effect.

I don't see this mess of continuity is going to necessarily benefit DC stories.

I adore Year One. I love it more than Dark Knight. But putting it in continuity left us with dumb stories explaining why Jim Gordon is Bab's uncle, not wait, he is, but it's a secret.

God, I never want to see those kinds of stories ever again. Just ignore the bad idea and keep the stuff that works.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

At least I can pretend Morrison’s Action run is still canon now lol.

It's always been canon, as an alternate Superman variant. That was Superman, just as Bronze Age Superman was Superman and Weisenger Superman all the way back to Seigel & Shuster.

Jeans & T-Shirt Superman is still running around the Multiverse, upsetting corrupt apple carts wherever and whenever he lands.

[Frontier]

I adore Year One. I love it more than Dark Knight. But putting it in continuity left us with dumb stories explaining why Jim Gordon is Bab's uncle, not wait, he is, but it's a secret.

God, I never want to see those kinds of stories ever again. Just ignore the bad idea and keep the stuff that works.

I think the meaty material we got with Jim and Babs in that same continuity pretty much outweighed that small little wrinkle, but that's just me.

[Restingvoice]

Say goodbye to a timeline that try to make even remotely any sense...

"And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what's coming after Future State. Everything. Any story, any character, any creator, any timeline, any reality, anything goes. Freedom for creators to take a story, use what continuity they deem fit, and tell that story to the best of their ability. Call it Hypertime, call it non-continuity, call it Omniverse."

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/deat...-future-state/

Okay, cool, so it's a creator based series from now on
Tom King's BatCat
Scott Snyder's Omniverse
Geoff Johns' Metaverse
Grant Morrison's Multiverse
Brian Michael Bendis' Wonderland
Tynion's Bat Family
That's much simpler to figure out which is canon and not and when.

Like I said long ago, I can go with continuity, I can go with discontinuity, as long as they're clear on what they're doing

Now what's Patrick Gleason and Dustin Nguyen's doing these days?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I think the meaty material we got with Jim and Babs in that same continuity pretty much outweighed that small little wrinkle, but that's just me.

Would those stories been impossible to do with less continuity?