DC's "new" timeline revealed at NYCC

[king81992]

No... with Earth 0 history includes having a Multiverse, Earth 3 at the very least, breaking the Source Wall and expanding to Omniverse I might as well view it as it is unless I have a reason not to



'kay. If that's the way it has to be then we need to talk about the Trinity after all.

The Trinity joined JSA because that was the only team back then.
They don't join the JSA because they're the next generation after WW2.

The Trinity has proven to be the more popular and has been adjusted to modern days so they don't need to be in the JSA. Their more popular team is JLA anyway, but that's the present day and doesn't answer their involvement in the past.

Hmm...

Back to Obsidian, Jade, and Stargirl. Whose generation do they relate to? They're younger than Bruce, Clark, and Diana, right, but exactly how young?

Dinah Lance is young enough to hang out with Babs and old enough to marry Ollie.

So Batman, Superman and WW were active during WW 2 as part of the JSA?

Obsidian and Jade are usually depicted as young, but older than Dick's generation. Although Jade is sometimes depicted as younger than Obsidian, either Dick's age or slightly younger.

Stargirl is always depicted as the same age or younger than Tim's generation.

Dinah is always depicted as being a lot older than Dick's generation but relatively young(late 20s to mid 30s).

Honestly, I'd worry about the next generations and their ages much later in the process.

[Dataweaver]

The difference between Earth 2 and the rest is that Earth 2 was originally published as the primary DC universe, and was later retconned to being on a different earth. You cannot say that about any of the others.

[Restingvoice]

So Batman, Superman and WW were active during WW 2 as part of the JSA?

Obsidian and Jade are usually depicted as young, but older than Dick's generation. Although Jade is sometimes depicted as younger than Obsidian, either Dick's age or slightly younger.

Stargirl is always depicted as the same age or younger than Tim's generation.

Dinah is always depicted as being a lot older than Dick's generation but relatively young(late 20s to mid 30s).

Honestly, I'd worry about the next generations and their ages much later in the process.

I haven't decided yet on Trinity on the JSA. Determining the JSA kids will, and if that's their age then the only thing stopping the Trinity from joining the JSA at WW2 would be their age.

We already decided that JSA, being tied to WW2, will be dead, retired, or mentor by now. So if the Trinity was in JSA, they should be that as well. Clark and Diana have real-time slow aging in their lore, but Bruce will be a centenarian, and we know DC's not doing that.

If Bruce's slow aging too, then the 40s JSA will still be his age as well.

Otherwise, if Trinity is part of the next-gen that is JLA, then we do need time travel. Not for the 40s JSA, but for their kids. So that Obsidian, Jade, and Stargirl can be Bruce's kids' generation.

So that's the choice, slow aging for everyone if Trinity's in JSA WW2, and time travel for the JSA kids if Trinity's not in JSA WW2

[Dataweaver]

So Batman, Superman and WW were active during WW 2 as part of the JSA?

Obsidian and Jade are usually depicted as young, but older than Dick's generation. Although Jade is sometimes depicted as younger than Obsidian, either Dick's age or slightly younger.

Stargirl is always depicted as the same age or younger than Tim's generation.

Dinah is always depicted as being a lot older than Dick's generation but relatively young(late 20s to mid 30s).

Honestly, I'd worry about the next generations and their ages much later in the process.

There was a superman, batman, and Wonder Woman Who were members of the jsa, yes. They were retconned out of the JSA when the JSA was merged into the single timeline after crisis on infinite Earth

[king81992]

I haven't decided yet on Trinity on the JSA. Determining the JSA kids will, and if that's their age then the only thing stopping the Trinity from joining the JSA at WW2 would be their age.

We already decided that JSA, being tied to WW2, will be dead, retired, or mentor by now. So if the Trinity was in JSA, they should be that as well.

Otherwise, if Trinity is part of the next-gen that is JLA, then we do need time travel. Not for the 40s JSA, but for their kids. So that Obsidian, Jade, and Stargirl can be Bruce's kids' generation.

Personally I would do:

1940s- JSA is formed and participates in WW 2. Diana could also debut during WW 2 as solo hero and meets Steve Trevor.

Early to Mid 1950s- Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman join JSA.

Late 1950s to early 1960s- JSA is forced to disband, the Trinity and some members of the JSA form a new team, the JLA.

[Dataweaver]

Note that immediately after the crisis on infinite Earth, they published a history of the DC Universe that synthesized the various multiple Earth into a single timeline. The main difference between that time line and what I'm considering right now is that 35 years have gone by since then semicolon and the gap between the Golden Age and the Modern Age is widening. Thus, something needs to be done so that the increasingly untenable span of time between the end of the golden age and the start of the Silver age ceases to be a problem.

To a lesser degree, the 1985 effort ended up cutting out a lot of stuff from the Golden Age that conflicted with the Silver age. I would like to make more of an effort to include stuff that had been cut out during that effort.

After all, every story is Iconic to someone; so the more you include, the less likely you are to discard something that someone considers iconic.

And the difference between what's currently being done and what I'd like to do is that my effort would result in a single consistent timeline. One that cuts out as little as possible; but consistent nonetheless.

[Restingvoice]

Personally I would do:

1940s- JSA is formed and participates in WW 2. Diana could also debut during WW 2 as solo hero and meets Steve Trevor.

Early to Mid 1950s- Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman join JSA.

Late 1950s to early 1960s- JSA is forced to disband, the Trinity and some members of the JSA form a new team, the JLA.

So translating that to ages, The JSA is only 5-10 years older than the Trinity? They're in their 50s in the present day while the Trinity and their love interests are in their 40s, then Hal and Barry are in their 30s, Dick, Wally, and Kyle 20s?

Sounds good to me.

[Dataweaver]

That matches the original start of the silver age, yes. Originally, the JSA retired in the early 50s and the JLA launched in the late 50s / early 60s.

Problems with that approach are either that characters get way too old (if they age appropriately and the dates stay synchronized with publication dates; or the jla's present day is somewhere in the late 20th century.

Incidentally, “let's just take the iconic stuff and throw out the rest” is how we got the New 52.

[Restingvoice]

That matches the original start of the silver age, yes. Originally, the JSA retired in the early 50s and the JLA launched in the late 50s / early 60s.

Problems with that approach are either that characters get way too old (if they age appropriately and the dates stay synchronized with publication dates; or the jla's present day is somewhere in the late 20th century.

DC already insists that Bruce stays in relative prime, so everyone pretty much stops aging, or age even slower once the time reaches that point. Corresponding to that, Dick's generation doesn't get older than 30 and the JSA too will not get too old.

Most of the stories can remain, the JSA just looks younger now. Johnny Thunder won't look as old as he is in Doomsday Clock.

[Dataweaver]

Something else to consider: during the JSA's original run, Superman and Batman were only honorary members; they appeared in the entire initial run twice, maybe three times. By contrast, while Wonder Woman was not a founding member, she joined soon after and was an active participant right up until the series ended. So I would say that Wonder Woman should be included as a member of the original JSA, but Superman and Batman need not be.

[Restingvoice]

Something else to consider: during the JSA's original run, Superman and Batman were only honorary members; they appeared in the entire initial run twice, maybe three times. By contrast, while Wonder Woman was not a founding member, she joined soon after and was an active participant right up until the series ended. So I would say that Wonder Woman should be included as a member of the original JSA, but Superman and Batman need not be.

That's fine, we'll just use the modern depiction of Diana and Steve being 18 at the youngest when they start. Steve won't be a colonel yet, but most of the stories should still be able to happen even if he's a private.
Also, if I want Superman to still be the first superhero, then I might need to use Superboy.

[Dataweaver]

DC already insists that Bruce stays in relative prime, so everyone pretty much stops aging, or age even slower once the time reaches that point. Corresponding to that, Dick's generation doesn't get older than 30 and the JSA too will not get too old.

Most of the stories can remain, the JSA just looks younger now. Johnny Thunder won't look as old as he is in Doomsday Clock.

And that gets back to the question of whether the JLA should follow up the JSA directly or if there should be a large time Gap between the retirement of the JSA and the founding of the JLA. Note that there are ways to make the ages line up properly either way.

Note also that during the silver and bronze ages, the JSA timeline advanced in real time while the JLA timeline crawled. As a result, by the time you get to crisis on infinite Earths, there's a wider gap between the ages of the JSA and the JLA than there was when the Silver age started.

[Restingvoice]

And that gets back to the question of whether the JLA should follow up the JSA directly or if there should be a large time Gap between the retirement of the JSA and the founding of the JLA. Note that there are ways to make the ages line up properly either way.

Note also that during the silver and bronze ages, the JSA timeline advanced in real time while the JLA timeline crawled. As a result, by the time you get to crisis on infinite Earths, there's a wider gap between the ages of the JSA and the JLA than there was when the Silver age started.

That can happen because it was Earth 1 and 2 right? What happened then and there happened as it was. This new timeline where everyone age slowly is for Earth 0. It will be a new history since Earth 0 didn't exist before Crisis.

[Dataweaver]

That can happen because it was Earth 1 and 2 right? What happened then and there happened as it was. This new timeline where everyone age slowly is for Earth 0. It will be a new history since Earth 0 didn't exist before Crisis.

Earth 0 didn't exist before the Crisis; but it did exist after the Crisis: when the Crisis ended, a new timeline was established that incorporated elements from Earth 1, Earth 2, Earth 4, Earth S, and even a very little bit from Earth X. The post-Crisis history included both a JSA in WWII and a JLA in the present.

[Dataweaver]

Okay; here's my latest take on it:

The 20th century resembles Roy Thomas's All Star Squadron from the early 80s, and is home not only to the Justice Society and the Seven Soldiers of Victory (and, near the end, Infinity Inc), but also to heroes that had originally been published by rival companies such as Quality Comics and Fawcett Comics. It is not isolated from other worlds; but it doesn't have much interaction with them, either: there have been a few incursions from a morally mirrored Earth that featured the Crime Syndicate, and there are a number of heroes who have found their way to a Nazi-dominated Earth in an effort to liberate it from its oppressors.

(Possible revision: merge “Earth 3” and “Earth X” into a single “anti-Earth”, where the Crime Syndicate runs a totalitarian state and is trying to crush the Freedom Fighters, a team of heroes originally from Earth 0.)

But beyond that, there's very little cross-world travel, with one floating exception: starting in 1961, there's a lot of back-and-forth time travel between the 20th century and the 21st century.

As far as superheroics are concerned, the history of the 20th century runs from the late 30s/early 40s to the mid-80s; just over fifty years. Every Golden Age story happens in this timeframe, and happens concurrently with its publication date — though the specifics of what precisely happened during a given story is open to revision, so long as the broad strokes remain the same. This does include Superman debuting in 1938 and Batman in 1939, unless it process impossible to reconcile that with the 21st century. It ends in 1985, when a massive Crisis shakes the world to its core and forcibly ends the first age of heroes by permanently relocating most of the superhuman and vigilante community to the 21st century.

The 21st century begins with Year One, which is roughly 20 years before “now” — which, at the time of this posting, would put it in 2001, the actual start of the 21st century. But it's a sliding timeline, with a quartet of a year playing in universe on average for every year that passes for the publisher that means that when we get to 2025, Year One will be “21 years ago”, or 2004. Year One is Superman's modern debut, and the start of the second age of heroes. The JLA formed somewhere around Year 5; and not long after that, Barry Allen traveled back in time to 1961 and met his personal hero, Jay Garrick. Which started the frequent time travel team-ups between the premier superhero team of the 20th century, the JSA, and the premiers superhero team of the 21st century, the JLA, leading right up to the Crisis, which happened in 1985 and in Year 10 (I think). After that, the former heroes of the 20th century made the 21st century their new home.

That's the capsule summary of it. Of course, the devil is in the details; and there are a number of oddities that need to be addressed on a case by case basis. Not the least of which is the business about Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman.