DC's "new" timeline revealed at NYCC

[Coco Loco]

These kind of things never really work if one takes a linear approach to aging. Inevitably you either end up with characters way older than TPTB would really like them to be, or you get ridiculously compressed stuff like the New 52 idea of 4 Robins in 5 years. Even if you stretch it out to 15-20 years there are at least 3, and arguably 4 generations of characters in the DCU just from the JLA on. It will just never work - even if you contrive some de-aging mechanism to keep the characters artificially young, their supporting casts and villains would age.

If these kinds of timelines and whatnot are to have any real value, the focus has to just be on ordering events rather than using them as a Bible for character ages. Crisis on Infinite Earths happened before Zero Hour, for example. Were there 3 years in between, 5, 9? It doesn’t really matter. There was a non-trivial period of time between them. Time passes in the DCU but characters don’t age in a linear way. Otherwise every time they told a Christmas story everyone would have to be a year older.

[Tzigone]

I'm pretty sure it won't be just de-aging.

I'm pretty sure a universe-rewrite will happen every "Crisis" (and I suspect the de-age will be selective in some cases). It is just that DC would recognize this events as part of its story (in a meta level).

I mean, Supergirl dies in a Crisis, but she returns again. That's what happened in Pre-Flashpoint continuity.

That may well be case. Though even within generations timing can be weird (Tim's age v. Damian's in gen 3).

If this is the case, I still want a "after all the changes" timeline and to know why events-as-published can't be the meta story.

[paulojrmam]

I don't know if I understand this concept of timeline. Shouldn't there be several instances of the each thing happening for the first time, once before Flashpoint, other after the reboot?

[Tenzel Kim]

Updated the pdf: New DC Timeline - Generation 1-4

Here they are as images:

[Tenzel Kim]

[Tenzel Kim]

I would love to add all the images used in the original by DC but I have a bit of a problem identifying a few of the images:

Generation 2 Year 5: Does anyone know where this version of the Doom Patrol logo can be found
Generation 2 Year 6: Can anyone identify the image below the Crisis on Multiple Earths logo
Generation 2 Year 8: I've used the image from the original first appearance of Supergirl, but this image looks like it might be a later version of that same scene
Generation 2 Year 6: Can anyone tell which logo is above the New Teen Titans logo

Generation 3 Year 8: Can anyone identify the image used here
Generation 3 Year 11: Can anyone identify the logo? used below Infinite Crisis
Generation 3 Year 14: Does anyone know where to find that version of the Final Crisis logo

[DrNewGod]

Well, I haven't been up to date on the latest issues of the Venditti series, so I don't know if he's delved into it in further detail. But the basic idea is that Hawkman's reincarnation doesn't have to be linear. In other words, he can essentially time-travel when he's reborn...being reincarnated in a past era. That would explain how multiple versions of Hawkman can co-exist.

IMO, that's a huge problem. It deprives the character of any sense of stakes.

Let Lionmane kill Hawkman? No problem, there's an oblivious reincarnated version just down the street whose memory can be triggered so he can take over.

[Tenzel Kim]

IMO, that's a huge problem. It deprives the character of any sense of stakes.

I have to agree. While the series so far has been good I'm not a fan of the new reincarnation idea, and honestly I don't think it really improves on anything to have Hawkmen from Krypton, Rann, Thanagar, Earth etc. all not just be connected but basically be the same guy.

[Tenzel Kim]

These kind of things never really work if one takes a linear approach to aging. Inevitably you either end up with characters way older than TPTB would really like them to be, or you get ridiculously compressed stuff like the New 52 idea of 4 Robins in 5 years. Even if you stretch it out to 15-20 years there are at least 3, and arguably 4 generations of characters in the DCU just from the JLA on. It will just never work - even if you contrive some de-aging mechanism to keep the characters artificially young, their supporting casts and villains would age.

If these kinds of timelines and whatnot are to have any real value, the focus has to just be on ordering events rather than using them as a Bible for character ages. Crisis on Infinite Earths happened before Zero Hour, for example. Were there 3 years in between, 5, 9? It doesn’t really matter. There was a non-trivial period of time between them. Time passes in the DCU but characters don’t age in a linear way. Otherwise every time they told a Christmas story everyone would have to be a year older.

I completely agree. When doing these kinds of timelines DC (or Marvel or any other publisher who does not use real time aging) the focus should be on the sequence of events rather than actual years. Just accept that the aging of the characters won't ever really work out if you sit down and add up the years needed. Accept that time moves differently and/or aging happens differently in these universes. That said I think it is a good idea to have a timeline that shows the actual order of events in the universe, as it will make it a lot easier for writers to reference something in the past without ending up making continuity mistakes that could easily have been corrected.

[j9ac9k]

I only took a quick look, but man... they misspelled Kyle Rayner's name .. (unless Doomsday Clock reboots him as "Kyle Raynor")

[Tenzel Kim]

I only took a quick look, but man... they misspelled Kyle Rayner's name .. (unless Doomsday Clock reboots him as "Kyle Raynor")

My bad. Those are my "transcripts" of the timeline and for some reason I misspelled his name. I see I also misspelled Connor Hawke. Not good. I'm usually one of those who point out mistakes like this. Both have been fixed in the pdf.

[dswynne]

That's cool that there's a plot point like that. Hmm... we can combine both
Let's say Billy was 8 when he joined JLI and turned 12 right before Zero Hour
Let's say the Zero Hour age reset really is to make Wallace the same age of Damian
That means he'll be 8 again.
Then Suspendium happened in that spoiler box until it's lifted in 52. He's still 8.
After that, he grew up normally until he's 15 in New 52 and 16 in Rebirth. Still fits.

SNIP!

That could work. And I didn't remember that the latest Avengers films (Infinity and Endgame) employed a 5-year "time-skip", where, by the time "Spider-Man: Far From Home" occurs, Peter Parker and others had been missing five years, but are still the same age as they were when Thanos snapped his fingers.

In other words, there are multiple ways to keep certain characters "young", even without the need to "de-age" anyone, while moving them forward through the timeline (though, if the Zero Hour event does occur, certain characters will be physically affected by the event, like Ray Palmer becoming a teenager again).

[Tzigone]

In other words, there are multiple ways to keep certain characters "young", even without the need to "de-age" anyone, while moving them forward through the timeline

Sure, but the world is going to notice that. Not addressing that is bad storytelling. What's a way where their friends and neighbors don't notice? Or it it affects enough outside people that friends and neighbors noticing doesn't make them suspicious. And it gets the necessary supporting casts for multiple heroes.

[Pohzee]

If Bleeding Cool's rumors are correct about DC using this timeline to launch their 5G "Fifth Generation" event (which seems likely given how much sense 5G makes in the context of the new timeline,) then this whole thing is pointless and ridiculous.

The self-described Generation 4 is 1/3 the lengths of the other generations both in terms of story and real world. Relaunching at this point would undercut the eras and open up the door for sooner and sooner era shifts, with diminishing returns.

[MRP]

If Bleeding Cool's rumors are correct about DC using this timeline to launch their 5G "Fifth Generation" event (which seems likely given how much sense 5G makes in the context of the new timeline,) then this whole thing is pointless and ridiculous.

The self-described Generation 4 is 1/3 the lengths of the other generations both in terms of story and real world. Relaunching at this point would undercut the eras and open up the door for sooner and sooner era shifts, with diminishing returns.

Well if you believe Bleeding Cool about 5G, it won't be the same people as the heroes, with a new Batman (Fox), Superman (Jonathan Kent) and Wonder Woman taking over the roles of those characters, to be followed by new Flash, GL, Aquaman etc. and it won't be the obvious sidekick/legacy characters taking over the role. So in a sense, if BC is right, the whole timeline is just housekeeping for a hole new DCU moving forward essentially, not a reboot but a changing of the guard ad the old guard has aged out of their roles.

I am not sure I see DC actually doing this or how well it would be received, but if correct it would answer what DC was working towards with the timeline, and a lot of the questions we've seen about the actual age of characters would be essentially moot as they won't be the featured players moving forward.

-M