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  1. #1021
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dswynne View Post
    Immortals walk the Earth all the time; it depends on what type of immortality that can best serve as a useful story point. In the case of Wonder Woman, I like the idea that Diana is cursed to never be with her one true love, Steve Trevor, and that "Steve Trevor" is fated to be reincarnated like the character Link (from LEGEND OF ZELDA), who will fall in love with the Warrior Princess, but will die in the end. And, it could be any "Steve Trevor" (not one connected by blood necessarily), and Steve could be reincarnated as a Black man (or any other ethnicity).
    I like this idea a lot, and it fits all the craziness of Steve Trevor's life so far, and even manages to squeeze in poor neglected Trevor Barnes into the mix

  2. #1022
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    I like this idea, is this an established DC thing or is this just a fan idea?
    Whatever it is, I am incorporating that into my personal DCU history.

  3. #1023
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dswynne View Post
    Immortals walk the Earth all the time; it depends on what type of immortality that can best serve as a useful story point. In the case of Wonder Woman, I like the idea that Diana is cursed to never be with her one true love, Steve Trevor, and that "Steve Trevor" is fated to be reincarnated like the character Link (from LEGEND OF ZELDA), who will fall in love with the Warrior Princess, but will die in the end. And, it could be any "Steve Trevor" (not one connected by blood necessarily), and Steve could be reincarnated as a Black man (or any other ethnicity).
    I dunno, that seems a little too depressing for Wonder Woman. Maybe for an Elseworlds take.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    It doesn't need to be convoluted, but it's DC continuity so it's already convoluted
    And they complicate it themselves even when they don't need to, hence Wonder Woman needing yet another origin .

  4. #1024
    Incredible Member Anodyne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castling View Post
    So, Wonder Woman was the first superhero of the Heroic Age.
    I've read somewhere that the Wonder Woman movie was set during WWI. Could DC be using that to place Diana's debut ahead of Superman's?
    Last edited by Anodyne; 07-13-2020 at 04:55 AM.
    Beverly Allen, the Bee--with honey and stinger.

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  5. #1025
    Astonishing Member sifighter's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Anodyne;5046422]
    Quote Originally Posted by Castling View Post
    So, Wonder Woman was the first superhero of the Heroic Age.
    I've read somewhere that the Wonder Woman movie was set during WWI. Could DC be using that to place Diana's debut ahead of Superman's?
    Oh yeah no doubt the success of the Wonder Woman movie was a significant factor here in Wonder Womanís new immortal origin. Marvel does the exact same thing so Iím not at all surprised when DC tries to go for synergy with its movies.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
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  6. #1026
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post

    And they complicate it themselves even when they don't need to, hence Wonder Woman needing yet another origin .
    It all comes down to what kinds of stories they want to tell in the here and now. If they want to revisit the Justice Society during the '40s with modern eyes, repositioning Wonder Woman as the first hero with a closeted Green Lantern and an everyman Flash makes a lot of sense. I don't mind revising recent stories if it leads to better stories going forward.

    I thought Rucka's Year One was fine, but it wasn't some kind of character defining classic that fans wanted be held sacrosanct for years like Miller's Batman: Year One. And, frankly, neither should Perez's origin, which caused endless headaches for JSA, JLA, and Teen Titans continuity. New readers don't care if origins get retold over and over again anyways. Some of the most popular reads in my classes are Superman: Birthright and Superman: Secret Origin. They watched the 2008 Wonder Woman animated movie and the 2019 Wonder Woman animated movie, both of which featured different origins and nobody had a problem with it. They just want good stories and origin stories are often some of the best ones for certain characters.

    I think, for the time being, Wonder Woman arriving in Man's World at a time when women couldn't even vote is far more compelling to me than her arriving for the first time during the era of #MeToo and Trump or some vague "15 years ago". It's not that you couldn't tell interesting stories with Diana arriving in the here and now, but she's much more alive and vital to me when she and Steve are relics of a bygone age still living today, who have far more experience about how much the world has changed in terms of women's role in society, and how much farther they have to go.

    Granted, I would say the same thing about Superman, too. I think his origin has more mythic weight if he's the product of a Depression era childhood who came of age in the late '30s. It certainly makes his costume more understandable. That said, I totally get why DC wants him and Batman to remain modern heroes. Unlike Wonder Woman, their supporting casts are not easily magiced into eternal youth like Steve Trevor is, who makes up the entirety of Diana's longstanding supporting cast. Golden Age Etta and modern age Etta are distinctly two different characters, so you can just have the current Etta be the grand-neice or whatever of the original one.

  7. #1027
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    It all comes down to what kinds of stories they want to tell in the here and now. If they want to revisit the Justice Society during the '40s with modern eyes, repositioning Wonder Woman as the first hero with a closeted Green Lantern and an everyman Flash makes a lot of sense. I don't mind revising recent stories if it leads to better stories going forward.

    I thought Rucka's Year One was fine, but it wasn't some kind of character defining classic that fans wanted be held sacrosanct for years like Miller's Batman: Year One. And, frankly, neither should Perez's origin, which caused endless headaches for JSA, JLA, and Teen Titans continuity. New readers don't care if origins get retold over and over again anyways. Some of the most popular reads in my classes are Superman: Birthright and Superman: Secret Origin. They watched the 2008 Wonder Woman animated movie and the 2019 Wonder Woman animated movie, both of which featured different origins and nobody had a problem with it. They just want good stories and origin stories are often some of the best ones for certain characters.

    I think, for the time being, Wonder Woman arriving in Man's World at a time when women couldn't even vote is far more compelling to me than her arriving for the first time during the era of #MeToo and Trump or some vague "15 years ago". It's not that you couldn't tell interesting stories with Diana arriving in the here and now, but she's much more alive and vital to me when she and Steve are relics of a bygone age still living today, who have far more experience about how much the world has changed in terms of women's role in society, and how much farther they have to go.

    Granted, I would say the same thing about Superman, too. I think his origin has more mythic weight if he's the product of a Depression era childhood who came of age in the late '30s. It certainly makes his costume more understandable. That said, I totally get why DC wants him and Batman to remain modern heroes. Unlike Wonder Woman, their supporting casts are not easily magiced into eternal youth like Steve Trevor is, who makes up the entirety of Diana's longstanding supporting cast. Golden Age Etta and modern age Etta are distinctly two different characters, so you can just have the current Etta be the grand-neice or whatever of the original one.
    I think the difference between the two of us is that I think Year One is such a definitive and strong basis for a modern origin for Wonder Woman and sets her up so well for consistent stories that I can't see re-positioning her with the JSA, that era, and having to once again revamp everything about her character to be ideal in this situation. Even those two animated films you cited went for a modernized origin that hit similar beats to Year One.

    Your students may not have minded it but I don't think we need a deluge of origin stories trying to achieve the same point. Zero Year has become more and more redundant to Year One as the years have gone by.

    I just don't really see either Wonder Woman or Steve Trevor as relics of a bygone age. If anything they should be trendsetters for their gender and for society as a whole (moreso Diana then Steve, who just goes with what Diana does). I don't think most people assume Steve Trevor is this guy with eternal youth or that there needs to be two Etta Candy, that's just people spitballing how things could possibly turn out to try and make Wonder Woman's world make sense now that they're retroactively altering her continuity.

  8. #1028
    Incredible Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Wonder Woman's origin in either the World Wars or modern age is fine for me so long as the story's good but DC making her the first public hero ultimately depends on if they actually treat the book with more importance than they currently do. Other than that it's just a anecdote for the trivia section on DC fan wiki sites.

  9. #1029
    Fantastic Member wonder39's Avatar
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    It just all seems so extra complicated when1) weve just sort of cleared everything up via Rebirth and 2) Doomsday Clock just revealed that the Earths of the original infinite multiverse exist. So if the real Earth 2 ( golden age), Earth one ( silver Age, now called Earth 1985 or 6), a Post Crisis Earth, an Earth 52, etc.....if all of that now exists, why are we cluttering up another Earth, even worse than Post Crisis?!?


    None of it makes any sense....

  10. #1030
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the difference between the two of us is that I think Year One is such a definitive and strong basis for a modern origin for Wonder Woman and sets her up so well for consistent stories that I can't see re-positioning her with the JSA, that era, and having to once again revamp everything about her character to be ideal in this situation. Even those two animated films you cited went for a modernized origin that hit similar beats to Year One.

    Your students may not have minded it but I don't think we need a deluge of origin stories trying to achieve the same point. Zero Year has become more and more redundant to Year One as the years have gone by.

    I just don't really see either Wonder Woman or Steve Trevor as relics of a bygone age. If anything they should be trendsetters for their gender and for society as a whole (moreso Diana then Steve, who just goes with what Diana does). I don't think most people assume Steve Trevor is this guy with eternal youth or that there needs to be two Etta Candy, that's just people spitballing how things could possibly turn out to try and make Wonder Woman's world make sense now that they're retroactively altering her continuity.
    As with Superman, they've been retroactively altering her continuity to the point that altering it again for a new way to tell stories about her is always a good thing.

    You can tell great stories with Wonder Woman's origin set in the present, you can do so with it set in the past. Both work, but I would love to see what they do with her in the 1940s after decades of the comics largely dancing around it with half-measures.

    Give Diana in the 1940s again a go for bit, as they can always change it back again and the audience isn't going to care in a post-Spider-Verse world. They get it. There are multiple versions of these characters. You aren't going to confuse them unless your story is bad.

    Again, good stories trumps all.

  11. #1031
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonder39 View Post

    None of it makes any sense....
    It's only complicated if you want it to be. It can be as simple as you need it to be, too. Trying to tie together 80+ years of thousands of stories of disparate quality into one giant tapestry isn't ever going to make any sense. It's a foolish idea...but it's also an incredibly fun one.

    The DCU contains the elements for virtually any kind of story now. You can tell anything you want using whatever you want. The chairs will occasionally get rearranged on the main stage, but the only important is whether or not it's entertaining or not.

  12. #1032
    Fantastic Member wonder39's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    It's only complicated if you want it to be. It can be as simple as you need it to be, too. Trying to tie together 80+ years of thousands of stories of disparate quality into one giant tapestry isn't ever going to make any sense. It's a foolish idea...but it's also an incredibly fun one.

    The DCU contains the elements for virtually any kind of story now. You can tell anything you want using whatever you want. The chairs will occasionally get rearranged on the main stage, but the only important is whether or not it's entertaining or not.
    Well the " none of it makes sense" i meant was why is DC trying to shove it all into one continuity vs just letting things be on their own respective Earth . Then letting characters and events cross those Earths.

    I never had an issue keeping Earths and their continuities straight, but DCs constant messing with crap is mind boggling....

  13. #1033
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonder39 View Post
    Well the " none of it makes sense" i meant was why is DC trying to shove it all into one continuity vs just letting things be on their own respective Earth . Then letting characters and events cross those Earths.

    I never had an issue keeping Earths and their continuities straight, but DCs constant messing with crap is mind boggling....
    The main Earth is always gonna be a mish-mash of various stuff because creators tend to want as many toys to play with as possible, which is why the old Earth-1/Earth-2/Earth-S juggling contest didn't work for some. I think it worked just fine and benefited certain characters like the Shazam crew, who were often better off in their own fairy tale-esque world.

    However, if DC is going to stick with having the main Earth contain as much stuff as possible, I don't want them to half-ass it. Just include everything and let the fanboys sort out the exact details.

    If the JSA and JLA are going to co-exist on the same Earth, you bet I want Wonder Woman to be a prominent member of both teams. Superman and Batman weren't really major members of the JSA, so that's not a big loss for me. Wonder Woman, though, adds a lot to the JSA and it also gives her even more prominence in the history of the DCU that finally places her on equal footing with Superman and Batman.

  14. #1034
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    n/a 10char

  15. #1035
    Fantastic Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    I'd much rather have JSA characters on their own seperate Earth. This way they can include Wonder Woman, Black Canary and Hawkman without having to reconcile them with the current versions.

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