DC's "new" timeline revealed at NYCC

[MajorHoy]

Yeah, Marvel has done something similar now with their fictitious 'Siancong War' that's basically WW2 and the Vietnam War for characters who need to be on a sliding timescale...

What parts of WWII have been shifter to the "Siancong War"?



The People's Republic of China didn't come into full control of China until 1949, several years after the end of WWII. Prior to that point in time, the Nationalist Government was the main party in power on mainland China.

[Frontier]

So...dodged a bullet here?

[Digifiend]

Yeah, Siancong replaces the Vietnam and Gulf Wars, which had both been previously used in Iron Man's origin story. As that page shows, it also affects Punisher, War Machine, and the Fantastic Four. But not Captain America and Magneto, who remain tied to World War II (Cap of course was cryogenically frozen and has his serum that keeps him young, and Magneto was de-aged at one point).

[Dougbauer]

And what about these questions:
-What was the previously undocumented “big bang” of the Age of Mysteries?
-Which character truly ushers in the dawn of Super Heroes, inspiring all the rest?
-What was the real reason behind the Justice Society of America’s retirement?
-Which Golden Age hero will become history’s greatest villain?
-What contentious alliance kept the Wayne family dynasty alive after Thomas and Martha’s deaths?
-Who are the new, never-seen-before wildcards that will be instrumental in fashioning DC’s push to the future?
https://www.comicsbeat.com/dc-5g-is-...-of-mysteries/

[D.Z]

And what about these questions:
-What was the previously undocumented “big bang” of the Age of Mysteries?
-Which character truly ushers in the dawn of Super Heroes, inspiring all the rest?
-What was the real reason behind the Justice Society of America’s retirement?
-Which Golden Age hero will become history’s greatest villain?
-What contentious alliance kept the Wayne family dynasty alive after Thomas and Martha’s deaths?
-Who are the new, never-seen-before wildcards that will be instrumental in fashioning DC’s push to the future?
https://www.comicsbeat.com/dc-5g-is-...-of-mysteries/

All dropped. Enjoy.

[Restingvoice]

The sliding timeline can be used starting in the 60s on Earth 1 because they don't have JSA to tie the timeline back to WW2 and Earth 2 itself with JSA runs in real-time.

Starting post-crisis they're using comic book time, with Steve Trevor and I think Rick Flag is a 'Nam vet and everyone age slowly that Tim Drake only aged from 13 to 17 years old from 1989 to 2011

In New 52, it started with real-time, starting with Joker cutting off his face, Damian accompanying Bruce to Crime Alley for the first time in September 2011, the Teen Titans debuting in New Year 2012, and Joker returns one year after he cut off his face. After that, they gave up on time and consistency, and keep everyone's ages the same until New 52 ends.

Rebirth is defined by the time being meddled but began with time skipped to Damian's 13th birthday. The canonically messy timeline reach it's climax at the end of DC Universe, where Wally discovered that every branch of Hypertime shows up at the same time because of Batman Who Laughs.

Now that's settled, Infinite Frontier began stating the timeline has been realigned, but each book is vague on what's in and what's not. JSA has been reconfirmed to take place in Earth 0 during WW2, but it's a slid timeline for the modern generation with Damian hitting 14 years old, making him born around the 2000s instead of the 70s in Post Crisis (the 70s, not 90s because the 90s in Post Crisis only run for 2 years based on Tim Drake's aging)

The most recent Barry Allen origin, Flash Year One, placed him in a time where he already owns a smartphone when he got struck by lightning, so a post-2000 era for everyone seems about right.

[bat39]

What parts of WWII have been shifter to the "Siancong War"?



The People's Republic of China didn't come into full control of China until 1949, several years after the end of WWII. Prior to that point in time, the Nationalist Government was the main party in power on mainland China.

Yeah, I mentioned WW2 because Reed Richards and Ben Grimm's military service in WW2 (which was part of their original backstory) was shifted to the Siancong War.

Of course, characters like Cap and Magneto who's backstories are inextricably tied to WW2 remain anchored to that era.

The sliding timeline can be used starting in the 60s on Earth 1 because they don't have JSA to tie the timeline back to WW2 and Earth 2 itself with JSA runs in real-time.

Starting post-crisis they're using comic book time, with Steve Trevor and I think Rick Flag is a 'Nam vet and everyone age slowly that Tim Drake only aged from 13 to 17 years old from 1989 to 2011

In New 52, it started with real-time, starting with Joker cutting off his face, Damian accompanying Bruce to Crime Alley for the first time in September 2011, the Teen Titans debuting in New Year 2012, and Joker returns one year after he cut off his face. After that, they gave up on time and consistency, and keep everyone's ages the same until New 52 ends.

Rebirth is defined by the time being meddled but began with time skipped to Damian's 13th birthday. The canonically messy timeline reach it's climax at the end of DC Universe, where Wally discovered that every branch of Hypertime shows up at the same time because of Batman Who Laughs.

Now that's settled, Infinite Frontier began stating the timeline has been realigned, but each book is vague on what's in and what's not. JSA has been reconfirmed to take place in Earth 0 during WW2, but it's a slid timeline for the modern generation with Damian hitting 14 years old, making him born around the 2000s instead of the 70s in Post Crisis (the 70s, not 90s because the 90s in Post Crisis only run for 2 years based on Tim Drake's aging)

The most recent Barry Allen origin, Flash Year One, placed him in a time where he already owns a smartphone when he got struck by lightning, so a post-2000 era for everyone seems about right.

Haven't read too many of the recent books, but the timeline I've pieced together in my head, based largely on Damien's age and a few other details, is that's its around Year 22 for the likes of Batman and Superman right now.

This is based on the fact that Bruce first met Talia when Dick was in college, and the earliest that would have happened is when Dick was 17. Assuming Damian was conceived and born within the same year (its canon that his gestation was artificial, so maybe we can skip the normal 9 months), then its been 14 years since then. Now Dick IMO became Robin when he was 12, and that was around 2 years into Batman's career, so if you add it all up, its been roughly 21 years since Bruce became Batman...making him around 46 now if we go with him starting at 25.

I guess this works with Superman as well, especially given Jon's (chronological) age.

The question is, does this work for characters like, say, Barry Allen or Oliver Queen, who don't have all their past continuity restored? I can't imagine Barry being in his mid-forties right now. And even if you slide forward their origins relative to Superman and Batman, it becomes a mess, because their sidekicks were OG Titans along with Dick.

[Restingvoice]

Yeah, I mentioned WW2 because Reed Richards and Ben Grimm's military service in WW2 (which was part of their original backstory) was shifted to the Siancong War.

Of course, characters like Cap and Magneto who's backstories are inextricably tied to WW2 remain anchored to that era.



Haven't read too many of the recent books, but the timeline I've pieced together in my head, based largely on Damien's age and a few other details, is that's its around Year 22 for the likes of Batman and Superman right now.

This is based on the fact that Bruce first met Talia when Dick was in college, and the earliest that would have happened is when Dick was 17. Assuming Damian was conceived and born within the same year (its canon that his gestation was artificial, so maybe we can skip the normal 9 months), then its been 14 years since then. Now Dick IMO became Robin when he was 12, and that was around 2 years into Batman's career, so if you add it all up, its been roughly 21 years since Bruce became Batman...making him around 46 now if we go with him starting at 25.

I guess this works with Superman as well, especially given Jon's (chronological) age.

The question is, does this work for characters like, say, Barry Allen or Oliver Queen, who don't have all their past continuity restored? I can't imagine Barry being in his mid-forties right now. And even if you slide forward their origins relative to Superman and Batman, it becomes a mess, because their sidekicks were OG Titans along with Dick.

It can work if they don't start at the same time
Example, Barry began as Flash post 2005 as approximately a 25 year old. That will make him at most 40 today, but more likely late 30s.
Then, if Wally and Dick are the same age and they're late 20s now, he'd have to meet Barry and become Kid Flash when he's around 15 range and not long after Flash Year One.

However, if Dick is adopted when he was 10-12 (unconfirmed), then he'd have spent about 3-5 years as an adoptee and maybe Robin before Wally even became Kid Flash, and before Justice League was formed.
This matches the depiction of DC Universe Death Metal where Robin Dick first saw Justice League when he's 15-16 range wearing the New 52 costume... if that's still canon.

I was avoiding Talia until I see more confirmation. I can only say that if Damian's 14 in 2021 then he's born in 2007, conceived maybe in 2006. Using the classic age, Dick 18 and Talia 19 during her first meeting with Bruce, that would make them 29 and 30 today. Which sounds about right for me, timeline-wise, but they're still gonna write Nightwing as playful while Talia is mature.

[Dataweaver]

Yep; bullet (mostly) dodged. All that we're “stuck” with is the “Wonder Woman debuted first and inspired the Golden Age”, that got published in the 80 years of Wonder Woman special. And I can live with that.

I'm not sure that the new “It All Happened” situation is much better than this; but it's less disruptive in that we aren't getting characters suddenly being aged up (Tim in his late 20s? Dick in his 40s??). And it gives them a few years to work out something better, taking their time to get it right instead of doing a crash course that's going to have all sorts of unintended consequences.

My own preference still leans toward placing G1 around World War II, followed by a time-skip event that gathers the bulk of the Golden Age characters into one location and transports them en mass from 1961 to the dawn of the Silver Age, with the rest of the timeline existing on a sliding timescale anchored to whenever “now” is. This works because there was an Interregnum between the end of the Golden Age and the beginning of the Silver Age, where nearly all superhero comics stopped publication, giving just about as clean of a break between them as one could hope for; and the main difficulties of extracting Superman and Batman from the Golden Age have mostly already been addressed. Even the time-skip idea I posted above posits the idea that the vast majority of the Golden Age heroes went into retirement shortly after WWII, probably around 1951, and came out of retirement roughly a decade later for one last adventure — an idea I borrowed from James Robinson's Golden Age.

Beyond that, I'd aim for a very rough approximation of a four-to-one ratio between publication years and in-universe years. Not a hard and fast rule, mind you; but as of this posting, the rule of thumb would be that “now” covers 2018–2021; “one year ago” cover 2014–2017; “two years ago” covers 2010–2013; “three years ago” covers 2006–2009; “four years ago” covers 2002–2005; “five years ago” covers 1998–2001; “six years ago” covers 1994–1997; “seven years ago” covers 1990–1993; “eight years ago” covers 1986–1989; “nine years ago” covers 1982–1985; “ten years ago” covers 1978–1981; “eleven years ago” covers 1974–1977; “twelve years ago” covers 1970–1973; “thirteen years ago” covers 1966–1969; “fourteen years ago” covers 1962–1965; “fifteen years ago” covers 1958–1961; “sixteen years ago” covers 1954—1957; “seventeen years ago” covers 1950–1953; “eighteen years ago” covers 1946–1949; “nineteen years ago” covers 1942–1945; and “twenty years ago” covers 1938–1941. As mentioned above, Superman and Batman would be extracted from the Golden Age and placed in the appropriate positions on the sliding timescale: Superman's 1938 debut becomes “twenty years ago”, as do Batman and Robin's 1939 and 1940 debuts.

Going forward, each year that passes for us tends to be roughly three months passing in-universe: when 2022 rolls around, all of those dates I just posted advance a year (“now” becomes 2019–2022, “last year” becomes 2015–2018, and so on); and by the time 2025 rolls around, what's being published now will have become the events of “one year ago”.

Again, I wouldn't be too rigid with this framework; some dates would still need adjusting. As a test run, here's how it works for the Robins (which I'm picking as an example because the hardest part of getting a workable timetable is the kids):

Dick Grayson debuted in 1940. That becomes “twenty years ago”. In 1984 (“nine years ago”), he becomes Nightwing and Jason Todd becomes Robin. In 1987 (“eight years ago”, Damian Wayne is conceived. In 1988 (also “eight years ago”, the Joker murders Jason Todd. In 1990 (“seven years ago”), Tim Drake becomes Robin. In 2002–2003 (“five years ago”), Jason Todd returns; in 2005 (also five years ago), Stephanie Brown has her brief career as Robin. Damian is introduced to Bruce in 2006 (four years ago) and becomes Robin in 2009 (also four years ago). There are a few problems with these figures (e.g., Damian would have been eight when Bruce took him in); but they're all within two or three years of being reasonable. I'd adjust Dick's debut as Robin to “seventeen years ago”, in Batman's third year in action; I'd adjust Dick's transition to Nightwing and Jason's debut as Robin to “ten years ago” to give Jason a couple of years in the role before the Joker murders him, and so that he's a couple of years older than Tim. And I'd push Damian's conception back a couple of years as well, so that he's ten when Talia introduced him to Bruce. The other dates work fine: Dick, Jason, and Tim could all reasonable have been around 13 when they became Robin, which would place their current ages at 30, 22, and 20, respectively; and Damian would currently be 14. If you go with Dick being as young as ten when he became Robin, you can lower his current age to as little as 27, making him five years older than Jason.

Note, though, that a one-year shift on the sliding timescale would be a four year shift in publication dates: shifting Dick's debut as Robin to “seventeen years ago” would mean that any stories from 1940–1952 that featured him would either need to have him extracted from them or would also need to be treated as occurring concurrently with events published over a decade later; moving his debut as Nightwing to “eleven years ago” puts it concurrent with events of the mid-70s, which could potentially cause problems with respect to the Teen Titans. Likewise with Damian's birth being ten years before Morrison bright him back: Son of the Demon would also have to be moved to align with stories published in the mid-70s.

That said, none of those strike me as deal-breakers; the worst of them would be that Dick became Nightwing shortly after leaving the 70s-era Teen Titans, and was already Nightwing when the 80s-era New Teen Titans were founded; and Starfire would only ever have known him as Nightwing, never as Robin. Tim would no longer be a teen according to this timescale; but I wouldn't mind his N52-era deaging being retroactively removed. In terms of character ages, the New 52 era is problematic anyway: the attempt to force a five-year timeline made just about everyone artificially too young.

So yeah; I think that could work.

EDIT: also, the publication dates don't have to be evenly distributed along the sliding timescale: that is, it doesn't have to be a uniform four years of publication or year in-universe. If we adjust the timescale so that it works for the Robins, then 1987–2006 would have to be eleven years in-universe (because Damian); 1940–1990 would have to be ten years (because Tim); and 2006–2021 would have to be four years (because Damian, again). If we allow each year in-universe include three to five years old publication, I think we could get a timetable that works for nearly everything.

[Aahz]

Honestly I 'dont really get why they strech out some of the "Generations" that long.

There is imo really no point to have Dick be 24 at the end of "Generation 2" instead of 19-20. You could imo pretty easily compress down Generation 2 by another 5 years or so, and it would probably align better with the comics.

[Aahz]

Again, I wouldn't be too rigid with this framework; some dates would still need adjusting. As a test run, here's how it works for the Robins (which I'm picking as an example because the hardest part of getting a workable timetable is the kids):

I think the hardest part is to make Tim's age work with all the stuff that happened in the Post COIE continuity.

I think up to Tim's introduction timeline in pretty easy, since you didn't consonantly had these big year long storylines and events. And do to how Tim's and Dick's origin are coupled you can't actually change much here. The "G5 timeline" as for example Dick becoming Robin before Tim is born, which obviously doesn't work.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

What a mess. Why set up a decades long timeline that tries to include as much as possible, but rejigger the timeline so that stories that took place in the 80s now take place in the 70s? Just say that time works differently and let each story take place in the year it was published while still giving wiggle room to include any cool continuity tweaks like adding Black Canary and her daughter to the earliest days of the JSA & JLA.

I assume Morrison's Superman & The Authority will be stuck trying to explain away all this nonsense.

[Dataweaver]

I think the hardest part is to make Tim's age work with all the stuff that happened in the Post COIE continuity.

I think up to Tim's introduction timeline in pretty easy, since you didn't consonantly had these big year long storylines and events. And do to how Tim's and Dick's origin are coupled you can't actually change much here. The "G5 timeline" as for example Dick becoming Robin before Tim is born, which obviously doesn't work.

Yeah; I took that into account. Another reason to place Dick's origin “17 years ago” is that Tim became Robin at 13 “7 years ago”, which would make him 3 when Dick became Robin. Which matches Tim's appearance in Batman Year 3.

[Dataweaver]

What a mess. Why set up a decades long timeline that tries to include as much as possible, but rejigger the timeline so that stories that took place in the 80s now take place in the 70s? Just say that time works differently and let each story take place in the year it was published while still giving wiggle room to include any cool continuity tweaks like adding Black Canary and her daughter to the earliest days of the JSA & JLA.

I believe that that's the Linearverse approach. Not my favorite, as I'm not fond of the notion that Tim was literally a teenager for over twenty years.

The idea looks messy because I'm showing how the sausage gets made; and that's always messy. But if you look at the end result without watching the process of how one gets there, it's nowhere near as bad.

[John Venus]

Only way to make Titans work in the 80's is by having the Trinity debut in the late 60's or the 70's.

Just go with the old Earth 1/Earth 2 separation. One earth where the Trinity and the JSA debuted in their real world publication dates and then disbanded at some point. This world is a decade or so behind Earth 1. Eventually, Flash breaks the barrier and reunites with the heroes from that JSA. The stories continue as they did until 1985 when a conflict with Earth 2 results in the JSA's world getting destroyed so some of the heroes from that world migrate over to Earth 1. Barry dies like he did in the Crisis so Jay starts mentoring him. Helena Wayne inspires and then later begins to train Helena Bertinelli. Bruce and Dinah Lance gets a few more years thanks to the Lazarus Pits but they are still aging. By the 21st the century, Dick's generation are in their 30's, Tim/Cass/Kon's generation starts coming into their own, in '10's Wallace and Jackson Hyde makes their debut and in the 20's, Jace/Jon/Yara's generation are ready to take over.