DC's "new" timeline revealed at NYCC

[Tzigone]

25-12=13+4=17
Then Ollie joins JLA next year when Dinah is 18
Looks like you'll be getting older Ollie young Dinah

Yuck. Disliked it the first time, and this may be worse. Time for more math.


Well, let's see: Connor becomes GA in gen 3 year 6, and if 18 would have been born gen 2 year 3. If he's 18 then, then he would have been born gen 2, year 3, when Dinah is 15. That's the year after Ollie becomes GA, though, so may be Connor is 20 and born year before Ollie becomes GA?

Anyway, Ollie becomes GA in gen 2, year 2, when Dinah is 14. If Ollie's 18 then (not happening, since Roy likely comes the following year with Wally and Dick), he's 4 years older than her. If he's the same age as Bruce, then he may be (if year 6 is Bruce's birth, making him 10 at parents' death in year 16) 6 years older than Dinah (20 at the time of becoming GA, with Bruce being 19 when he becomes Batman). If he's the same age as Clark, then he's 26 when he becomes GA, and 12 years older than Dinah. Actually ends up much better than post-COIE, where he was 15-20 years older than Dinah. As long as they don't make him older than Clark. Still a 12 year gap is not great if she's dating him when 18 though, as years make more difference the younger one is. I'm hoping they go more Batmanish on age.

So math tells me Bruce is likely 19 (if he was born year 6) when he becomes Batman and 21 when Dick becomes Robin. Barry becomes Flash a year after Batman (when Bruce is 20), so will he be older than Bruce in this version to already be a police scientist? I always thought of him as 5+ years younger than Bruce (mid-twenties when debuting, even though he had a ten year college reunion and then later had a 5 year college reunion, so his age was wonky - but they always referred to him as "young" which means under 30 to me). Same issue with Hal.

[Mr.B]

How does the world react to the de-aging? Would cillivans be confused that Clark looks and is younger? Does Extant de-age several people in the revised Zero Hour of the new timeline?

[Tzigone]

How does the world react to the de-aging? Would cillivans be confused that Clark looks and is younger?

This is why I can't get behind de-aging without a universe-rewrite bit. Everyone would have to de-age or people are going to notice that co-worker Clark Kent and well-known philanthropist Bruce Wayne and high school buddy Tim Drake are suddenly many years younger than they were.

[Zaresh]

The more I look at the redacted spots, the more I think it has to do with whatever happens when DDC ends.

It all starts with something happening towards 1940 in the Wonder Woman row. And then two years later, the JSA joins the WW2, and it's written in Wonder Woman's row for some reason. What if Diana saved Alan Scott from dying? It happened in 1940, apparently.

Could be that every black box is someone undoing whatever Manhattan did, setting the timeline that we're looking at now, and that resembles a lot the oldest one in each crisis period. Undoings we don't know about yet, I mean.

EDIT: it's funny, too, that most of the old guard and Superboy stopped their actions around the 1955 mark (more or less when* the comic code starts to work in our world), And it sort of reminds me of what happens in the Watchmen universe.

[Restingvoice]

The more I look at the redacted spots, the more I think it has to do with whatever happens when DDC ends.

It all starts with something happening towards 1940 in the Wonder Woman row. And then two years later, the JSA joins the WW2, and it's written in Wonder Woman's row for some reason. What if Diana saved Alan Scott from dying? It happened in 1940, apparently.

It could be that every black box is someone undoing whatever Manhattan did, setting the timeline that we're looking at now, and that resembles a lot the oldest one in each crisis period.

The black box in Jay Garrick's timeline is his last before he meets Barry Allen in Flash of Two Worlds. I think that's when he's transferred to Earth 2 or went to the time stream, courtesy of Manhattan.

I was wondering how can there be Flash of Two Worlds if JSA is on the same earth. That might be it. Jay's the only one who went somewhere and back.

By the way, I edited my old post but I think you missed it.

Pa Kent dies under Final Crisis Superman row

[Zaresh]

The black box in Jay Garrick's timeline is his last before he meets Barry Allen in Flash of Two Worlds. I think that's when he's transferred to Earth 2 or went to the time stream, courtesy of Manhattan.

I was wondering how can there be Flash of Two Worlds if JSA is on the same earth. That might be it. Jay's the only one who went somewhere and back.

By the way, I edited my old post but I think you missed it.

Pa Kent dies under Final Crisis Superman row

Got it. I'm going to add that now.
I edited my previous post too XD.

EDIT: and done! Funny that he dies so late in the timeline.

[Vordan]

I'm feeling like everyone's ages will be restored, to make room for the Gen 3 and 4 heroes to take over, while the Gen 2 ones retire.

Probably the reason stuff like the new rumoured Batman could happen. Wallace and Jackson should be old enough to be in the young adult range, so Teen Titans stuff should be different there maybe with them and others as mentors. Wally might be the old Flash here instead of Jay, Garth could be Aquaman now that Arthur is probably old enough to retire and stick to being a good King. Diana and Donna should be around together as adults concurrently so I wonder what different roles they might have (although I suspect it won't be anything great for Donna because this is DC). Superman is basically immortal in terms of aging, and Bruce's younger age could be explained with the Dionesium from Endgame. Lazarus Pit and Electrum for Jason and Dick, maybe, but I'm reaching now. That's all I'll really guess, since there's no way to know about characters who have yet to debut lol.

Dude if you think there’s a chance in hell that Didio is going to be retiring Barry and Arthur then I’ve got a bridge to sell you. That’s not happening.

[Mr.B]

This is why I can't get behind de-aging without a universe-rewrite bit. Everyone would have to de-age or people are going to notice that co-worker Clark Kent and well-known philanthropist Bruce Wayne and high school buddy Tim Drake are suddenly many years younger than they were.

If there's universe rewriting, none of the events on the charts are being pushed ahead or removed. Or altered.

[Tzigone]

If there's universe rewriting, none of the events on the charts are being pushed ahead or removed. Or altered.

Right. Which makes no sense. It also makes no sense for these 4 gens to be one continuous continuity
Or for heroes-only deaging with these events all still having occurred or being in everyone's memory. I think we have to be missing info to make it make sense, but deaging the heroes and their supporting casts within the continuity is not the correct answer, I don't think. Especially since they would have to be deaged differing amounts to end up at anything close to what we are used to.

[Frontier]

Dude if you think there’s a chance in hell that Didio is going to be retiring Barry and Arthur then I’ve got a bridge to sell you. That’s not happening.

Yeah, that's like expecting them to permanently bench Bruce.

[Restingvoice]

I've been playing with the age down for a while now, dividing it between COIE, Zero Hour, and Flashpoint. The age reset can work for everyone except Billy.

Wallace was born before 6 years Zero Hour but with Zero Hour age reset I can make him the same age as Damian. A baby. So the maximum age reset during Zero Hour is 6 years old.

Tim Drake with that maximum age reset of 6, I can make him Robin in the age range of 8-12 after Zero Hour, depending on how old he began. The youngest Robin in history is 8 years old.

Even if you don't age down Tim that much, Red Robin is his grown-up persona. He can range from 17 to 22 as Red Robin and he'll be fine.

The problem is Billy. Even when I'm using 8 years old as the youngest to become Shazam! everytime there's an age reset, he'll end up the same age of Tim, meaning he can be as old as 22 in Rebirth.

Even if I reset the ages on Flashpoint and make Damian 11 year old when he leads Teen Titans, Tim and Billy will still be 19 or 20

Has Billy ever work as late teens or early twenties?

[Lightning Rider]

Billy is a real problem I never thought of. There has to be some in-Universe explanation that has him age slower, otherwise he either shows up very late in DCU history, or they compress the hell out the entire timeline. Or reset him back farther post-Crisis.

[Frontier]

Has Billy ever work as late teens or early twenties?

I think the oldest he's been as Captain Marvel was late Post-Crisis where he was probably around Courtney Whitmore's age, so...15-16?

[MRP]

A couple of random thoughts on all of this...

When Didio presented this, he said this was something they were working on, but I don't think any mention has been made of what they are working towards. Most are assuming it is a comprehensive reworking of all of the DCU history, but it is just that, an assumption. We don't know what the actual endgame is. We've heard the term G5 leaked but again what the actual endgame is hasn't been articulated anywhere by anyone in the know.

And second, trying to figure out what this will look like in the end is nearly impossible if it is a work in progress. It very much reads right now like a novel or research project that exists on a number of index cards the writer has filled out after brainstorming as a precursor to a full rough draft, but those cards can be reshuffled at any time, cards added as needed and others dropped as the writing process occurs if they don't fit or something better is hit upon. It doesn't even look like DC has reached a finalized first draft with this yet, let alone what it will look like with revisions, edits, polishes and what not before it takes it's final form. I've enjoyed reading all the fan speculation and wishlists, and seeing people talk about it, but I don't think we've seen anything like what the final version of this is. Releasing it as NYCC is a chance for them to get people talking about DC and excited about DC and in essence create a mass of alpha (or perhaps beta readers if they had in house alpha readers from the staff and freelancers) readers who comment on it before they get down to the serious business of actually crafting the final version.

While it has piqued my curiosity and all the discussion has certainly been entertaining, what this all means and what it will all look like when all is said in done are still pretty much unknowns.

-M

[Restingvoice]

Billy is a real problem I never thought of. There has to be some in-Universe explanation that has him age slower, otherwise he either shows up very late in DCU history, or they compress the hell out the entire timeline. Or reset him back farther post-Crisis.

I'm working with the idea that everyone's age resets so that it's not awkward in-universe.

I think the oldest he's been as Captain Marvel was late Post-Crisis where he was probably around Courtney Whitmore's age, so...15-16?

He's 15 in New 52 and a high schooler in Rebirth too. What's the movie age?

A couple of random thoughts on all of this...

When Didio presented this, he said this was something they were working on, but I don't think any mention has been made of what they are working towards. Most are assuming it is a comprehensive reworking of all of the DCU history, but it is just that, an assumption. We don't know what the actual endgame is. We've heard the term G5 leaked but again what the actual endgame is hasn't been articulated anywhere by anyone in the know.

While it has piqued my curiosity and all the discussion has certainly been entertaining, what this all means and what it will all look like when all is said in done are still pretty much unknowns.

-M

I'm aware that this is a WIP. It's fun anyway