DC's "new" timeline revealed at NYCC

[The_Lurk]

It feels forced. Not in the "oh we do need to work something out" way but in a unhealthy "I have these last minute ideas that need to be wedged in no matter what" way.

So far, this has been very impressive.

Just when you think DC can't make a bigger mess, they run out and prove you wrong.

Yeah, pretty much.

Maybe I'm missing something; but so far it looks/feels like pointlessly going against the recent rebirth and beyond stuff which whole alleged point was to be a bridge between the old and new with D.Clock having meant to be the finishing paint. Originally carefully planned out until 5 min ago some guy said "screw it; do this. Also: F* d.clock; here is METAL".

Not saying that it was that what happed; but it very strongly feels that way.

And they keep wondering why ppl are so keen on ordering pre 2011 trades...

[Lee Stone]

The black box in Jay Garrick's timeline is his last before he meets Barry Allen in Flash of Two Worlds. I think that's when he's transferred to Earth 2 or went to the time stream, courtesy of Manhattan.

I was wondering how can there be Flash of Two Worlds if JSA is on the same earth. That might be it. Jay's the only one who went somewhere and back.

By the way, I edited my old post but I think you missed it.

Pa Kent dies under Final Crisis Superman row

Then there's 'Crisis on Multiple Earths' the year before the JSA returns.
The JSA returned with the 'Crisis on Earth-Two'/'Crisis on Earth-One' story (JLA #21 & 22).
So, it may be that the Crisis happened at the end of the year and finished at the start of the next year.

But the questions would be 'Where were the JSA?' and 'Where do they return from?'

[Zaresh]

Billy is a real problem I never thought of. There has to be some in-Universe explanation that has him age slower, otherwise he either shows up very late in DCU history, or they compress the hell out the entire timeline. Or reset him back farther post-Crisis.

Could be that they bring him late into the timeline, yes. I'm thinking that anything in his carried history from the Golden Age isn't specifically tied to that age, unlike characters like Wonder Woman or even the very pulp original Blue Beetle. When did Fawcett enter the DC? The 70's, the 80's? That's where I would make him enter this timeline.

[Lee Stone]

Could be that they bring him late into the timeline, yes. I'm thinking that anything in his carried history from the Golden Age isn't specifically tied to that age, unlike characters like Wonder Woman or even the very pulp original Blue Beetle. When did Fawcett enter the DC? The 70's, the 80's? That's where I would make^ him enter this timeline.

They could also explain that when Billy becomes Captain Marvel he stops aging until he switches back.
Considering how much time he spends as CM, he could be growing a quarter of regular speed.

[Restingvoice]

By the way, Billy's age would not be a problem if he doesn't exist from Zero Hour to Flashpoint
Pre Crisis he's only Shazam! for 3 years
Post Crisis it's 6 years max until Zero Hour
Between Zero Hour and Flashpoint, as far as I know, his only appearance in this timeline is in Public Enemies unless he's a JLA member.
Then Post Flashpoint he only appeared after New 25 onward, a total of 3 years

So if he's like lost in the time stream starting Zero Hour, returning in New 52, there's no problem.

[Zaresh]

By the way, Billy's age would not be a problem if he doesn't exist from Zero Hour to Flashpoint
Pre Crisis he's only Shazam! for 3 years
Post Crisis it's 6 years max until Zero Hour
Between Zero Hour and Flashpoint, as far as I know, his only appearance in this timeline is in Public Enemies unless he's a JLA member.
Then Post Flashpoint he only appeared after New 25 onward, a total of 3 years

So if he's like lost in the time stream starting Zero Hour, returning in New 52, there's no problem.

Eh, could be that he does disappear. It wouldn't be too unbelieable to happen. More so if people like Jay has to jump time because whatever. There is a redacted cell in his row just after Zero Hour, and he doesn't show up again until 52.

Now that I look at the chart, there is no New Gods bit on the chart, right? Nor from gen 1 to 3. Which is weird, because Barda and Scott had a big part in JLI, for example.

[Restingvoice]

Eh, could be that he does disappear. It wouldn't be too unbelieable to happen. More so if people like Jay has to jump time because whatever. There is a redacted cell in his row just after Zero Hour, and he doesn't show up again until 52.

Now that I look at the chart, there is no New Gods bit on the chart, right? Nor from gen 1 to 3. Which is weird, because Barda and Scott had a big part in JLI, for example.

There's a spoiler box in the Fawcett row when JLI becomes JLA. Billy was in JLI. If he does disappear there and return for 52 at age 8 then he'll be 15 on New 52.

I hope that's it. The age fits.

[dswynne]

By the way, Billy's age would not be a problem if he doesn't exist from Zero Hour to Flashpoint
Pre Crisis he's only Shazam! for 3 years
Post Crisis it's 6 years max until Zero Hour
Between Zero Hour and Flashpoint, as far as I know, his only appearance in this timeline is in Public Enemies unless he's a JLA member.
Then Post Flashpoint he only appeared after New 25 onward, a total of 3 years

So if he's like lost in the time stream starting Zero Hour, returning in New 52, there's no problem.

DC could always use the "Suspendium" plot-point, where Billy and everyone in Fawcett City mysteriously disappear for five to ten years. In real world terms, this would make sense, since the years between "Power of SHAZAM!" last published date and "Curse of SHAZAM!" first published date is more than ten years. And, yes, there have been mini-series between those books, but they were either mini-series (like "Trials of SHAZAM!") or were for the all-ages market (like "Billy Batson and the Magic of SHAZAM!").

Ultimately, for all of DC books, it will be interesting to see what sticks, depending on which storylines were proven to be popular.

[Kevin Street]

Don't know what to think of all this.

It used to be so neat and tidy with the infinite Earths. Then Crisis messed everything up, but they eventually got most of the continuity to make some sort of sense again, at least for a while before it got confusing once more. But now, with this? No clue.

[Buried Alien]

Has Billy ever work as late teens or early twenties?

Only on live-action TV back in the 1970s.



1970s TV Billy Batson was identified as 19 years old, licensed to drive motor vehicles, graduated from high school, and had attended at least one year of college.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

One thing I didn’t really consider is that if everyone ages back to their original ages in whatever event takes us to Gen 5, we could probably take the timeline literally instead of figuring out how much time is reset each timeline change.

None of the events mention a character’s age. Maybe from the perspective of Gen 3 or Gen 4, we can read the timeline as if the timeline changes explain the discrepancies. From Gen 5, maybe there aren’t any. Dick, Wally, and the others being 40-ish during Gen 4 is entirely possible, since that doesn’t contradict the original Titans reforming in G4, even if it retcons major parts of the Rebirth Titans run. Gen 5 could very easily be about the children of the JLA and Titans as teens and young adults.

[Restingvoice]

DC could always use the "Suspendium" plot-point, where Billy and everyone in Fawcett City mysteriously disappear for five to ten years. In real world terms, this would make sense, since the years between "Power of SHAZAM!" last published date and "Curse of SHAZAM!" first published date is more than ten years. And, yes, there have been mini-series between those books, but they were either mini-series (like "Trials of SHAZAM!") or were for the all-ages market (like "Billy Batson and the Magic of SHAZAM!").

That's cool that there's a plot point like that. Hmm... we can combine both
Let's say Billy was 8 when he joined JLI and turned 12 right before Zero Hour
Let's say the Zero Hour age reset really is to make Wallace the same age of Damian
That means he'll be 8 again.
Then Suspendium happened in that spoiler box until it's lifted in 52. He's still 8.
After that, he grew up normally until he's 15 in New 52 and 16 in Rebirth. Still fits.

Only on live-action TV back in the 1970s.
1970s TV Billy Batson was identified as 19 years old, licensed to drive motor vehicles, graduated from high school, and had attended at least one year of college.
Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I'll take that as the peak age for a youth becoming Shazam because after that he'll be an adult.

[Desmark]

I wonder if the 5G 'event' bleeding cool is predicting will be related to hyper time and be zero hour 2 with a YJ centric plot and one shots concentrating on the fifth generation like the Year of the Villain specials.

[Tzigone]

I'm working with the idea that everyone's age resets so that it's not awkward in-universe.

Can you come up with a way that is non-awkward in-universe? And explain to me.

None of the events mention a character’s age.

Some mention births, and that's age. And the Teen Titans forming and NTT forming are implied ages (still in teen years). They are less certain, though, and may be inherited titles. But if Dick is 10 when becoming Robin here, he'd be 13 when Teen Titans forms, and 19 when NTT forms, if timelines are read straight. Which younger than I'm used to be Wally becoming KF, but that's the sort of thing that could be changed. I mean, they have Wally becoming KF the same year as Dick becomes Robin, so that's very different. Still, the births are hard ages.

[Konja7]

This is why I can't get behind de-aging without a universe-rewrite bit. Everyone would have to de-age or people are going to notice that co-worker Clark Kent and well-known philanthropist Bruce Wayne and high school buddy Tim Drake are suddenly many years younger than they were.

I'm pretty sure it won't be just de-aging.

I'm pretty sure a universe-rewrite will happen every "Crisis" (and I suspect the de-age will be selective in some cases). It is just that DC would recognize this events as part of its story (in a meta level).

I mean, Supergirl dies in a Crisis, but she returns again. That's what happened in Pre-Flashpoint continuity.