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  1. #466
    Astonishing Member vasir12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    So change is still possible, but I doubt DC would ever be able to pull off the kind of drastic overhaul they did back at the start of the Silver Age. Nor do they really have the incentive to do so...
    It would depend on a couple things. How hard the DC high-ups want to stick to their guns and the quality of stories writers can do with this. I think it would also be important that, unlike Marvel, DC shouldn't have these new guys diminish the older heroes but for some reason or the other being "better" than them. I'd prefer different to better.

  2. #467
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    The fact that a thread like this exists and all of this conversation exists make me glad I stopped buying new DC comics. What a mess. Complete train wreck what they've done since Flashpoint.

  3. #468
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hol View Post
    The fact that a thread like this exists and all of this conversation exists make me glad I stopped buying new DC comics. What a mess. Complete train wreck what they've done since Flashpoint.
    FLASHPOINT? Try COIE.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!
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  4. #469
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Last Son of Krypton, can you please please put up the original images again? I can't check how many words left in the blank ones
    Here are the original timelines...

    1 Gen: https://mlpnk72yciwc.i.optimole.com/...shot-172-1.jpg

    2 Gen: https://mlpnk72yciwc.i.optimole.com/...enshot-173.jpg

    3 Gen: https://mlpnk72yciwc.i.optimole.com/...enshot-174.jpg

    Source: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/10...timeline-nycc/

  5. #470
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Am I one of the only ones who sees this as positive? I'm not a continuity sticklier but this seems like they only way to reconcile so many contradictions brought on by the New 52 and Rebirth.

  6. #471
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    Am I one of the only ones who sees this as positive? I'm not a continuity sticklier but this seems like they only way to reconcile so many contradictions brought on by the New 52 and Rebirth.
    Maybe. I don't mind a redo, but this one doesn't make sense (though I do think we are missing important information that might make it make sense). Why is WW II seemingly 60 years ago? Either make it 82 years ago or go whole hog and make it 45 years ago (logical age for Clark and Bruce) or 20 years ago (if they all started in that era). I really do think we might get some logical response on that. But there are other, very strange, relative ages in the timeline. I'm not fond of taking Diana back to WWII. I think she's better served by a timeless origin (much the same as a mugging can happen anytime and a planet can explode anytime), and I prefer the trinity debuting at nearly the same time. Ideally, Superman would be the world's first superhero, IMO, but I'm totally will to sacrifice that. I can even be okay with WW's WWII debut. But there are too many odd timing issues. Like I said, we must be missing something because this does not function as either an original, before crisis-events timeline or a after-the-universe-reset timeline. Each generation may be it's own timeline, but there are problems within the generations, and even if they weren't, it doesn't provide what I most want - a coherent chronology of the universe where ages and memories make sense.

    Whatever the case, I want a functional timeline/history that puts characters appropriate (and logical - no 4-Robins-in-5-years) ages. I'd prefer to get the events and characters most important to me.

    I know some want a clean-slate reboot. I don't think it's feasible but I can understand the appeal, even if it's not my own ideal. Not necessarily "day 1" where Superman (or whichever hero you prefer) dons the cape for the first time, but there's a freedom to starting without so much (sometimes contradictory) history. I wouldn't prefer starting over with a 30 year old Superman meeting Black Lightning, a Batman with a 16 year old Dick Grayson, Diana about to introduce Donna to the gang, and a newly engaged Ollie and Dinah, with so many characters missing and their history erased, but it could at least build a functional universe. Even swap out some characters and relationships (which I also don't like). It's what animated series do. You'd lose some long-term fans married to the history, of course. That's going to happen with any reboot - it's the the curse of devoted fans. I don't even want it. But I understand the appeal of a functional universe. Probably have to make changes every 20 years to avoid getting to convoluted again. That's no fun. Might even have to be every 10, if you don't want to let your audience get so comfortable they react badly to the next update. No fun at all for me. But functional universes, if editorial can keep a reign on what's allowed to be brought in from previous continuances.

    I may have to join with others blaming COIE. While it brought in some characters I really like, keeping the JSA in this world and keeping them WWII-era is a real problem the further removed we get from the time and the more hoops we have to go through to keep them. Without that you could just rewrite Canary's origin away from JSA (or keep Earth 2 30 years after war) and timeslide everyone as the years pass and deeply slow aging (and thus no new babies born) as is tradition and keep your Trinity heroes never passing their mid-40s (which I think is an appropriate retirement age for most non-powered ones). It would mean keeping Damian and Lian (and other kiddos they killed off or erased) kids forever, though. Alternatively, of course, they could have stopped it before introducing Jason - I don't think there were any kids then, just the mostly-grown Teen Titans. Let Gar grow up, and they might have been able to halt aging right there.

    Unfortunately, halting aging and births can limit growth, development, and change in character's lives. If you don't want to do that, the really only workable alternative I see does involve de-aging the characters (which I personally dislike, particularly for those who are not allowed to grow up), but if you are going to de-age them, you have to drop history, and that's going to alienate some fans.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 10-08-2019 at 12:42 PM.

  7. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    Am I one of the only ones who sees this as positive? I'm not a continuity sticklier but this seems like they only way to reconcile so many contradictions brought on by the New 52 and Rebirth.
    Your not alone, I actually see this as a good thing, potentially interesting and much needed!

  8. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    FLASHPOINT? Try COIE.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!
    I never had a problem understanding Post Crisis continuity. There were some issues that needed explaining like the Hawks but it was all still made sense with a Superboy Prime punch here and there. Now? It's a mess. They can't even make sense of stuff they do year by year. To me the DCU ended with Flashpoint.

  9. #474
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Thank you.

    Zaresh and Tenzel, since Gen 4 mentioned that "Kents back in Metropolis" somewhere in Gen 3 around the time Jon Kent's born there should be something like "Kents went into hiding" or "Kents leave Metropolis" or anything along those lines but I don't know what phrase they'd use.

    In Superman Reborn they went into hiding to protect Jon from potential villains attack until his powers develop enough.

    I can only see one place where it could happen though. The cell before Jon Kent Born

    It's possible that it's not mentioned but I wanna know if you guys can make out anything from that cell.

  10. #475
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hol View Post
    I never had a problem understanding Post Crisis continuity. There were some issues that needed explaining like the Hawks but it was all still made sense with a Superboy Prime punch here and there. Now? It's a mess. They can't even make sense of stuff they do year by year. To me the DCU ended with Flashpoint.
    As someone who started with New 52 (well, technically I started with Flashpoint) I have not found anything confusing enough about the current stuff that it has gotten in the way of following any story.

    I honestly don't know what is going on with this timeline, but I do recall one of the biggest complaints about the New 52 is that DC did not have a plan for exactly what happened to who and when. I cannot see how DC establishing a timeline for whatever they have planned can in any way be a complaint now.

  11. #476
    Fantastic Member paulojrmam's Avatar
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    ^Yeah, I agree that Flashpoint is the problem. It was too hard a reboot. On its own, New 52 worked, but wasn't as good as what was there before. Then with Rebirth they tried to reconcile pre and post-Flashpoint and it isn't working, that's why they need this timeline. But let's see how well it works, if at all.

  12. #477
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hol View Post
    I never had a problem understanding Post Crisis continuity. There were some issues that needed explaining like the Hawks but it was all still made sense with a Superboy Prime punch here and there. Now? It's a mess. They can't even make sense of stuff they do year by year. To me the DCU ended with Flashpoint.
    For me, there have always been some problems, but it's so much more of a snarl now than ever before. At least we have the excuse Manhattan is messing with things and the metaverse fighting back to explain why it's a snarl, but that doesn't make reading much less frustrating for me. But yeah, there were issues before. Ignoring pre-Bronze age because continuity simply wasn't a priority then, I'd say when reading back issues and wiki articles I really noticed problems right before COIE, when they tried to finds solutions for the JSA's ages (and by extension Canary's). COIE brought some problems and bad solutions, and even in early days there were issues about how old Dick was he became Robin or how old in present. As post-COIE wore on, they just retconned a lot stuff from its post-COIE origins (the Hawks only done later instead of at COIE, and then poor Donna and all her retcons). Sinestro retcon. Bruce and Clark's relationship retcon - btw, when did they get their old friendship back since in AoS 440 in 1988, Bruce had only just learned his identity?). Plenty of retcons that were in no way related to COIE, but very annoying to me and that sometimes muddled history, also happened. But then there were the retcons to bring back pre-COIE elements - sometimes they worked, and sometimes they didn't.

    I honestly don't know what is going on with this timeline, but I do recall one of the biggest complaints about the New 52 is that DC did not have a plan for exactly what happened to who and when. I cannot see how DC establishing a timeline for whatever they have planned can in any way be a complaint now.
    Establishing a timeline is good. It's just this timeline may be very bad. I don't know, because we're missing something. But this timeline, read straight-forwardly (and I cannot believe it should be) makes no sense. The ages are all out of whack, it seems (they don't give us ages for some, so we guess based on history). Sure, I don't like all the events or some of the ways they've swapped them, and yes, I'd complain about that anyway, but the biggest issue is this doesn't make sense. If we're reading the blurred bits correctly.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 10-08-2019 at 01:52 PM.

  13. #478
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    I sure am glad the Simpsons never had to reboot because they were worried that the characters were old.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  14. #479
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    For me, there have always been some problems, but it's so much more of a snarl now than ever before. At least we have the excuse Manhattan is messing with things and the metaverse fighting back to explain why it's a snarl, but that doesn't make reading much less frustrating for me. But yeah, there were issues before. Ignoring pre-Bronze age because continuity simply wasn't a priority then, I'd say when reading back issues and wiki articles I really noticed problems right before COIE, when they tried to finds solutions for the JSA's ages (and by extension Canary's). COIE brought some problems and bad solutions, and even in early days there were issues about how old Dick was he became Robin or how old in present. As post-COIE wore on, they just retconned a lot stuff from its post-COIE origins (the Hawks only done later instead of at COIE, and then poor Donna and all her retcons). Sinestro retcon. Bruce and Clark's relationship retcon - btw, when did they get their old friendship back since in AoS 440 in 1988, Bruce had only just learned his identity?). Plenty of retcons that were in no way related to COIE, but very annoying to me and that sometimes muddled history, also happened. But then there were the retcons to bring back pre-COIE elements - sometimes they worked, and sometimes they didn't.
    Superbat old friendship might be back when they did a flashback remake of the silver age boat meeting. They're still mainly rivals there, but that's how they know each other's identity in the Superbat book.
    Then in another flashback issue, don't know which one, it looks like it's drawn by Darwyn Cooke... when Robin Dick met Superman the first time he's already friends with Batman.

  15. #480
    Spectacular Member Stick Figure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    Am I one of the only ones who sees this as positive? I'm not a continuity sticklier but this seems like they only way to reconcile so many contradictions brought on by the New 52 and Rebirth.
    I definitely look forward to new versions of the main characters. I glanced at the timeline and that’s enough for me. I hear people talking about silver age and Bronze Age and multiple Earth’s and my head hurts. Just tell some good stories. The thought of some actual turnover when it comes to characters sounds great to me.

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