Wonder Woman - not Superman - is DC's first superhero of the Heroic Age

[SiegePerilous02]

I doubt they're going to date Superman that much. They're more comfortable with immortal Wonder Woman then exploring that aspect of Superman.

I mean, even with this timeline Batman would probably be too old.

Since they reboot and retcon so often, I don't get why they don't at least give exploring that aspect a shot. We know the reset button can be hit (as it often is) if it doesn't work out.

I'd vastly prefer the Trinity just debuting in the modern age at the same time, and the JSA back on Earth-2. And of course DC is avoiding their original setup that worked much better than any of the subsequent versions. But if Clark's ship is landing in 1941 anyway, and literally everyone else from the Golden Age save Batman is debuting when they originally did, why not cut the bullshit and have the rocket land earlier so he can arrive in 1938? Why does he lose his milestone and miss out on the Golden Age when he was there and the one who started the whole thing, and he has just as much of an in-story reason to be there as Diana?

Supreme proved it can work provided DC and fans give it a chance.

The problem with putting Superman too far forward isn't really him aging but his supporting cast.

Like what age would Lois and Lana be. Or Jimmy and the rest of the planet?

If you mean him arriving in the Golden Age, he could work for George Taylor at the Daily Star. Perry and the Planet wouldn't be around yet.

Do what Supreme did and make Lana Lang (there called Judy Jordan) his Golden Age girlfriend, while Lois Lane/Diana Dane is his modern one (and the endgame). Expand Pete Ross's as a supporting character. The Legion could show up since they time travel. Have him fight, among others, Ultra-Humanite and the original Toyman and Metalo (one "l"). I think there is plenty to do with Superman without Lois and Jimmy in his early career, DC and fans just need to accept that they wouldn't be there from the start. But they'd be there for the age where Superman leads the JL, the age of the main marquee heroes where most of the stories are being told, so that's what really matters.

[Konja7]

The problem with putting Superman too far forward isn't really him aging but his supporting cast.

Like what age would Lois and Lana be. Or Jimmy and the rest of the planet?

It is extremely likely Superman's cast will also be putt too far forward.

The Crisis (or things like that) are still part the new timeline. Superman and all his cast will likely be deaged with these.

I mean, Batman and Superman will debut at the same time in the new timeline. DC won't make that Batman is 80.

[Yoda]

The Gen 4 timeline has Booster discovering changes to the timeline. So there’s going to be some deaging going on at various points. There’s also notes indicating that it’s not a 1:1 year progression.

[NeonZ]

But if Clark's ship is landing in 1941 anyway, and literally everyone else from the Golden Age save Batman is debuting when they originally did, why not cut the bullshit and have the rocket land earlier so he can arrive in 1938? Why does he lose his milestone and miss out on the Golden Age when he was there and the one who started the whole thing, and he has just as much of an in-story reason to be there as Diana?

The timeline references a "Crisis" on year 6 of the 2nd gen, years before CoIEs. Crisis on Earth-1/2? They might be bringing back the classic Earth-2 as a separate thing that isn't mentioned there, with Clark's and Bruce's origins being meant to line up with their Silver Age origins. (Looking closely, I think that's "Crisis on Multiple Earths" which was the name of a trade with various annual JLA/JSA stories.

If they really go ahead with this timeline, I'd guess there will be some kind of new event that will freeze a large portion of the human characters for a couple of decades in order to explain their presence in both modern and old stories. The point seems to be to keep as much stuff in continuity as possible from throughout DC's history. Maybe multiple cities are frozen in time at some point and rescued decades later?

[Konja7]

Since they reboot and retcon so often, I don't get why they don't at least give exploring that aspect a shot. We know the reset button can be hit (as it often is) if it doesn't work out.

I'd vastly prefer the Trinity just debuting in the modern age at the same time, and the JSA back on Earth-2. And of course DC is avoiding their original setup that worked much better than any of the subsequent versions. But if Clark's ship is landing in 1941 anyway, and literally everyone else from the Golden Age save Batman is debuting when they originally did, why not cut the bullshit and have the rocket land earlier so he can arrive in 1938? Why does he lose his milestone and miss out on the Golden Age when he was there and the one who started the whole thing, and he has just as much of an in-story reason to be there as Diana?

Supreme proved it can work provided DC and fans give it a chance.



If you mean him arriving in the Golden Age, he could work for George Taylor at the Daily Star. Perry and the Planet wouldn't be around yet.

Do what Supreme did and make Lana Lang (there called Judy Jordan) his Golden Age girlfriend, while Lois Lane/Diana Dane is his modern one (and the endgame). Expand Pete Ross's as a supporting character. The Legion could show up since they time travel. Have him fight, among others, Ultra-Humanite and the original Toyman and Metalo (one "l"). I think there is plenty to do with Superman without Lois and Jimmy in his early career, DC and fans just need to accept that they wouldn't be there from the start. But they'd be there for the age where Superman leads the JL, the age of the main marquee heroes where most of the stories are being told, so that's what really matters.

A change of cast wouldn't be neccesary for Superman's appearance in Golden Age.

In the new timeline, it seems pretty likely Crisis have deaged all the characters.

For example: Even if Clark ship arrived in 1938, Lois will be there and be his Golden Age girlfriend.

It would be similar for other members of Superman's cast.

[Ascended]

Supreme proved it can work provided DC and fans give it a chance.

I think this is arguably the biggest hurdle. Fans don't give things a chance most of the time. We rage and bitch and moan as soon as the announcement of something new hits, we whine and complain until the first issue/s are out, and usually it's only after the fact that we say "Y'know what, that wasn't bad and I miss it!"

Just look at the Grayson series. Nightwing lost his secret ID, his costume, his codename, etc., and became a undercover Bat agent trying to dismantle a spy ring. And it was the best title Dick Grayson has had since Dixon (or at least numbered among his best runs). But fans hated the idea, those of us who got behind it had to be dragged there kicking and screaming, and it was only after the series was done and we were back to boring, mundane, status quo Nightwing stuff (with a severe lack of quality) that the fandom declared Grayson a big win for the character.

Supreme proved this sort of thing can work.....but do we trust DC enough to actually pull it off, and even if DC has the juice to do it, will fans *let* them? Or will we bail on the books, drive sales down, and force DC to return to the normal status quo type of stuff?

[Yoda]

The one thing they are screwing up with this is it doesn’t allow for Depression Era Superman stories which would allow for an adaptation of Morrison’s take and the classic Golden Age stuff. And generally there seems to be a bit more of an audience for that than costumed Superboy of Smallville and the 1950’s sci-fi space dad paternal version of the Silver Age.

[Konja7]

I think this is arguably the biggest hurdle. Fans don't give things a chance most of the time. We rage and bitch and moan as soon as the announcement of something new hits, we whine and complain until the first issue/s are out, and usually it's only after the fact that we say "Y'know what, that wasn't bad and I miss it!"

Just look at the Grayson series. Nightwing lost his secret ID, his costume, his codename, etc., and became a undercover Bat agent trying to dismantle a spy ring. And it was the best title Dick Grayson has had since Dixon (or at least numbered among his best runs). But fans hated the idea, those of us who got behind it had to be dragged there kicking and screaming, and it was only after the series was done and we were back to boring, mundane, status quo Nightwing stuff (with a severe lack of quality) that the fandom declared Grayson a big win for the character.

Supreme proved this sort of thing can work.....but do we trust DC enough to actually pull it off, and even if DC has the juice to do it, will fans *let* them? Or will we bail on the books, drive sales down, and force DC to return to the normal status quo type of stuff?

Yeah. Fans don't give a chance most of the time.

However, it is unfair to only mention changes that we liked in the end.

What about Diana being Zeus daughter?

[SiegePerilous02]

A change of cast wouldn't be neccesary for Superman's appearance in Golden Age.

In the new timeline, it seems pretty likely Crisis have deaged all the characters.

For example: Even if Clark ship arrived in 1938, Lois will be there and be his Golden Age girlfriend.

It would be similar for other members of Superman's cast.

This could work, I didn't even think of that. Maybe that's what they have in mind?
Though still...why not just let him be first? Lol. But for an alternative, Diana is the only acceptable option.

I think this is arguably the biggest hurdle. Fans don't give things a chance most of the time. We rage and bitch and moan as soon as the announcement of something new hits, we whine and complain until the first issue/s are out, and usually it's only after the fact that we say "Y'know what, that wasn't bad and I miss it!"

Just look at the Grayson series. Nightwing lost his secret ID, his costume, his codename, etc., and became a undercover Bat agent trying to dismantle a spy ring. And it was the best title Dick Grayson has had since Dixon (or at least numbered among his best runs). But fans hated the idea, those of us who got behind it had to be dragged there kicking and screaming, and it was only after the series was done and we were back to boring, mundane, status quo Nightwing stuff (with a severe lack of quality) that the fandom declared Grayson a big win for the character.

Supreme proved this sort of thing can work.....but do we trust DC enough to actually pull it off, and even if DC has the juice to do it, will fans *let* them? Or will we bail on the books, drive sales down, and force DC to return to the normal status quo type of stuff?

I definitely don't trust those currently in charge to do it right. But with other people in charge, we'd still get resistance from the fanbase like you say. Lana not being alive in the present or Lois not being there from the beginning, or him being so much (mentally) older than Batman, etc would be met with resistance just for being different. Is the Lana/Clark/Lois love triangle never having existed that much of a loss? We could still get stories set in the past for Lana, Pete, the Kents, etc. I for one would love t-shirt and jeans Superman to debut in 1938 and have the more powerful, more mature and classic costume-wearing Superman return in the vague "present day" to usher in the modern age of superheroes.

I miss Grayson (or at the very least, Seeley on Nightwing) every damn day.

[Tzigone]

Lana not being alive in the present or Lois not being there from the beginning, or him being so much (mentally) older than Batman, etc would be met with resistance just for being different. Is the Lana/Clark/Lois love triangle never having existed that much of a loss?

Not just for being different - for being different in a way that doesn't sound appealing. I don't mind losing the love triangle a bit. I do mind Lois not being there from the beginning - a lot, for reasons I've already posted on (likewise my dislike for entire concept of Clark as less-aging). I really love the idea of Lois knowing Clark's secret identity almost immediately, and that's very different. I like Jon. But these are changes that would/did require some sort of reboot to accomplish.

I think this is arguably the biggest hurdle. Fans don't give things a chance most of the time. We rage and bitch and moan as soon as the announcement of something new hits, we whine and complain until the first issue/s are out, and usually it's only after the fact that we say "Y'know what, that wasn't bad and I miss it!"

Are we supposed to just not have opinions? Or not discuss them on a board devoted to discussion? What's wrong with "this sounds terrible to me and I don't plan to check it out?" If DC doesn't wants fans forming opinions before the issues are out, then they shouldn't release any info before the issues are out. It's ridiculous to me that, with very little information, it's somehow acceptable that fans say "oh wow, this sounds great" but unacceptable to say "oh wow, this sounds awful" or "this sounds meh." Either we're supposed to have opinions on teasers or we aren't - it's a double-standard to say it's appropriate for fans to be enthusiastic with little info, but inappropriate to be unenthusiastic with little info.

[Jon Clark]

Are we supposed to just not have opinions? Or not discuss them on a board devoted to discussion? What's wrong with "this sounds terrible to me and I don't plan to check it out?" If DC doesn't wants fans forming opinions before the issues are out, then they shouldn't release any info before the issues are out. It's ridiculous to me that, with very little information, it's somehow acceptable that fans say "oh wow, this sounds great" but unacceptable to say "oh wow, this sounds awful" or "this sounds meh." Either we're supposed to have opinions on teasers or we aren't - it's a double-standard to say it's appropriate for fans to be enthusiastic with little info, but inappropriate to be unenthusiastic with little info.

I think the problems are both the "little info" and the amount of time they put the information out ahead of time.

Today: "DC to not have Superman and Lois as a couple"

Six months of arguing back and forth ad infinitum about Lois' place in the mythos, potential romantic pairings for Superman, whether long-term romance/marriage should be part of comic stories, and tangents about Earth-1/New 52/Batman's love-life/the creative teams. By the end a lot of people outraged by the whole concept.

Six Months Later: A mini-series that shows Superman's college years before he meets Lois.

A whole bunch of speculation and negative feelings based on DC putting out a generic description designed to mislead and doing so far in advance of the actual product that we have made up out minds before we know anything concrete.

In the case of this timeline we don't know how it works and how that will be reflected in actual stories, but everyone is acting as if they know specifics

[Patrick Gerard]

I think the problems are both the "little info" and the amount of time they put the information out ahead of time.

Today: "DC to not have Superman and Lois as a couple"

Six months of arguing back and forth ad infinitum about Lois' place in the mythos, potential romantic pairings for Superman, whether long-term romance/marriage should be part of comic stories, and tangents about Earth-1/New 52/Batman's love-life/the creative teams. By the end a lot of people outraged by the whole concept.

Six Months Later: A mini-series that shows Superman's college years before he meets Lois.

A whole bunch of speculation and negative feelings based on DC putting out a generic description designed to mislead and doing so far in advance of the actual product that we have made up out minds before we know anything concrete.

In the case of this timeline we don't know how it works and how that will be reflected in actual stories, but everyone is acting as if they know specifics

I don’t get the outrage. This is basically just a simplified pre-Flashpoint timeline.

Between time traveling Hippolyta and Diana just having her golden age career, I’ll take the latter.

I’d add Superman and Batman as regular, secret JSA members via time travel.

[Restingvoice]

I haven't seen any outrage. What I saw was "Lol this is not gonna last" or people disappointed that the announcement is just about timeline... that they know only last until the next reboot

Where in the timeline it's said that Lois wasn't there since the beginning? There's a name debuting in the year after Superman debuts in Gen 2 but I can't read it.

There's World's Finest in Gen 2 Year 3

[Tzigone]

Where in the timeline it's said that Lois wasn't there since the beginning? There's a name debuting in the year after Superman debuts in Gen 2 but I can't read it.

Since I did reference the idea in my post - it's not in the timeline, so far as I'm aware. It was just when new ideas were being discussed (things people would prefer, etc.), one mentioned was Superman actually premiering in 1938 and not meeting Lois until much later (him being a non-ager). I wasn't for that, and that was me responding that changing some things from what they were in a reboot would be good, but others bad.

Still not sure what to make of the timeline. It says Superman arrived on the planet on year 1 and the atomic bombs were dropped year 8 (according to people who can read it - my eyes aren't good enough). So Clark is born pre-WWII. How that will work, we are yet to know, since I don't expect Batman to be 60+ (they can kinda do that with WW and Superman, since they have canonically played their aging different ways). I don't know if this reality as it occurred in each generation (before Crisis and other generation-changing events happened and maybe changed history) or something else. Can't see why they'd show it that way, though, since it'd be easier to make actual published history the unrevised-by-events history. And what we all want to know is what current continuity is. I just don't get 82 years of real time and 60 years being spanned here. I'll be interested to find out. And keep speculating and discussing until I do.

[Restingvoice]

Since I did reference the idea in my post - it's not in the timeline, so far as I'm aware. It was just when new ideas were being discussed (things people would prefer, etc.), one mentioned was Superman actually premiering in 1938 and not meeting Lois until much later (him being a non-ager). I wasn't for that, and that was me responding that changing some things from what they were in a reboot would be good, but others bad.

Still not sure what to make of the timeline. It says Superman arrived on the planet on year 1 and the atomic bombs were dropped year 8 (according to people who can read it - my eyes aren't good enough). So Clark is born pre-WWII. How that will work, we are yet to know, since I don't expect Batman to be 60+ (they can kinda do that with WW and Superman, since they have canonically played their aging different ways). I don't know if this reality as it occurred in each generation (before Crisis and other generation-changing events happened and maybe changed history) or something else. Can't see why they'd show it that way, though, since it'd be easier to make actual published history the unrevised-by-events history. And what we all want to know is what current continuity is. I just don't get 82 years of real time and 60 years being spanned here. I'll be interested to find out. And keep speculating and discussing until I do.

I didn't think of WWII.

Let's say Year 8 is 1945 like the real world, then Batman and Superman will debut in 1952, and Nightwing and Crisis in 1966 then Flashpoint in 1981, but we know that's not gonna happen.

I think this is the reason they have to mention that it was 80 years Real-Time and 60 years of comic time. They won't use a real-life date. The elapsed time, the time pass in the DC comic world is 60 years, but in real life, it will be 80 years, arriving at 2020.

That's what that title means.