BATMAN ETERNAL mega thread 18-23

[BloodOps]

Jason and Barbara need to be written like this more often. It sucks Dick is being excluded from all this Bat-Family fun but his solo is amazing right now so I really can't complain.

Unfortunately Barbara is off to a whole new radical change in a few months, I wonder if Eternal will make the change in costume and attitude as well.

I want more focus on the 3 stories this issue was telling, not really interested with what is going on at Arkham Asylum right now.

[Cowtools]

Great issue! Writing had terrific characterisation, but I wanted to put in a special word for how great the art was. I've always like Andy Clarke, but he's really stepped up his game lately. I love to see him on an ongoing.

Referencing back Batgirl's other major (as opposed to group scene) run-in with Batwoman felt really natural, as did Babs' regard for, well, for how damn cool Kate's demeanor is. It's true, man. Kate's got some issues, but she's cool as hell in every regard.

Can anyone tell me when this was? I think I might have missed it.

[napolid]

Great issue! Writing had terrific characterisation, but I wanted to put in a special word for how great the art was. I've always like Andy Clarke, but he's really stepped up his game lately. I love to see him on an ongoing.



Can anyone tell me when this was? I think I might have missed it.

Batgirl #12

[Aioros22]

Cause he does (though i would have put it like that). He was quite good here because they're doing a real good job portraying him with an enjoyable asshole-ish attitude, but id still be very happy to see Jason actually put that full clip into the bad guy at the end here. Character needs his bite back. He needs to be more then just a meaner Nightwing if they don't what him to get stale. Just look at RHatO. Its probably the stalest book in the Bat line right now. Though i guess it isn't edited out of the Bat office, so not sure if it even counts as part of the Bat line anymore.

Jason outs enough bad guys in Ratho I think. If you do it here, you have an issue with Batwoman and Batgirl off the bat. Wait, there`s that cover of him and Babs fighting, maybe that`s it.

I disagree about the "if he kills = Punisher if he doesn`t = Nightwing". I know it isn`t what you likely meant, but in a broad sense (and I think writers are doing it) Jason is Jason. He`s got layers the others don`t. Simple as that.

There's nothing shocking about Jason's callousness, he never liked Dick, doesn't care he is dead, and Dick's loss has always been Jason's gain. The guy has no reason to be sad about what happend to Nightwing.

I wish Jason didn't speak as if he had known Dick, though.

From what we have so far I think it`s safe to say he knows Dick (pun..no pun? Maybe). Dick was one of the few people he thought about in the begining of Ratho when he was recovering (the 1rst issue has Jason mentioning Kory, Dick, Bruce and Dukra as a group of people who gave him lessons in life). He talked to Dick about setting things straight with Kory. Having a different relationship with Dick (and Damian) than he has with Tim, doesn`t mean he doesn`t respect him.

Jason is like Bruce in how he deals with some of his emotions (the difference being, he`s more honest more often). He did it regarding Damian, and he`s doing regarding Dick. With a callous edge? Yeah, but that`s Jason, he snarls and bites.

[Cowtools]

Batgirl #12

Ah, Batgirl! No wonder I missed it.
Thanks.

[Stormcrow]

This was great, Andy Clarke killed it and I loved Seeley's take on Batgirl. The speech would've meant more coming from Dick, but I'll take it as it's the best Jason has been portrayed in the New 52 so far.

And I'm glad he's following up on his Killer Croc story from Villain's Month, that was probably the only Bat-Book issue I actually enjoyed from that "event".

[Blacksun]

lol Brazil is not like China, but the rest of book is really good

[Dzetoun]

From what we have so far I think it`s safe to say he knows Dick (pun..no pun? Maybe). Dick was one of the few people he thought about in the begining of Ratho when he was recovering (the 1rst issue has Jason mentioning Kory, Dick, Bruce and Dukra as a group of people who gave him lessons in life). He talked to Dick about setting things straight with Kory. Having a different relationship with Dick (and Damian) than he has with Tim, doesn`t mean he doesn`t respect him.

Yes, he does know Dick. And Bruce. And yet, he doesn't. Which is what is so brilliant about his characterization. Everything that Jason says rings very true to his character as presented in the New 52, his experiences and attitudes. It is consistent and believable and true. And yet in so many ways objectively wrong. For instance his statement that Nightwing, like him, was motivated by the desire for revenge. That was something that one can easily see Jason believing. Yet it is also pretty clearly incomplete at the very least.

Even more striking is to take his statement about how he cannot understand the trust and loyalty Barbara has for Jim Gordon. He is sure that Batwoman does not understand it either, and that Batman would understand that kind of think least of all. Yet read the issue of Grayson from the very same day, an issue written by the same author (admittedly at a different time and for a different reason) and try to say that Jason really understands what he's talking about. And yet, Jason's statement, although objectively false, is within the dynamic of his character true, that is consistent with his own beliefs and attitudes and experiences. In this circumstance, Jason doesn't get it, and that is, as you say, Jason being Jason.

[Godlike13]

Hmm, well said Dzetoun.

[Maxpower00044]

Cool issue, but I think the Arkham stuff is the most interesting of the bunch. I did enjoy the interactions between Babs, Jason, and Kate. Also, I enjoy Seeley's characterization for Croc. Clarke's art is good, but it's too rooted in that "DC Look" for me to say it's amazing. Looking forward to next issue.

[Aioros22]

Yes, he does know Dick. And Bruce. And yet, he doesn't. Which is what is so brilliant about his characterization. Everything that Jason says rings very true to his character as presented in the New 52, his experiences and attitudes. It is consistent and believable and true. And yet in so many ways objectively wrong. For instance his statement that Nightwing, like him, was motivated by the desire for revenge. That was something that one can easily see Jason believing. Yet it is also pretty clearly incomplete at the very least.

Even more striking is to take his statement about how he cannot understand the trust and loyalty Barbara has for Jim Gordon. He is sure that Batwoman does not understand it either, and that Batman would understand that kind of think least of all. Yet read the issue of Grayson from the very same day, an issue written by the same author (admittedly at a different time and for a different reason) and try to say that Jason really understands what he's talking about. And yet, Jason's statement, although objectively false, is within the dynamic of his character true, that is consistent with his own beliefs and attitudes and experiences. In this circumstance, Jason doesn't get it, and that is, as you say, Jason being Jason.

That`s an interesting take, I can see him understanding Dick mostly from the view of his own lenses. I wasn`t making it as Jason understands or knows Dick completely, he wouldn`t, (maybe only Bruce or Damian truly do) for several reasons but he surely knows aspects of him enough to be able to tell some things. At least enough to comment and take shots at it.

It`s definatly a layered characterization and I totally need to get Grayson #2.

[Rakiduam]

That`s an interesting take, I can see him understanding Dick mostly from the view of his own lenses. I wasn`t making it as Jason understands or knows Dick completely, he wouldn`t, (maybe only Bruce or Damian truly do) for several reasons but he surely knows aspects of him enough to be able to tell some things. At least enough to comment and take shots at it.

Sure, he knows Dick's name.

I had forgotten when he tried to give Dick advice about his relationship just because he knows Dick's ex. That was annoying too, and probably he was as wrong as he is now. I don't know why he thinks he can talk about Barbara or her mindset.

I hadn't noticed how condescending Jason was in the new 52.

[Aioros22]

Sure, he knows Dick's name.

I had forgotten when he tried to give Dick advice about his relationship just because he knows Dick's ex. That was annoying too, and probably he was as wrong as he is now. I don't know why he thinks he can talk about Barbara or her mindset.

I hadn't noticed how condescending Jason was in the new 52.

http://www.sportfishermen.com/board/...sterically.gif

Yeah, no.

[Vil_Dee]

Sorry to interrupt with a post that isn't about Dick Grayson or the other Batbrats, but that bowl of bandages in the Batman Thanksgiving poster, many people thought that might be a reference to Hush, but could it instead be a reference to Killer Croc, since he's been sporting bandages around his arms?

[Dzetoun]

Sorry to interrupt with a post that isn't about Dick Grayson or the other Batbrats, but that bowl of bandages in the Batman Thanksgiving poster, many people thought that might be a reference to Hush, but could it instead be a reference to Killer Croc, since he's been sporting bandages around his arms?

It doesn't seem likely. Unless they've upgraded Croc significantly, he isn't an important enough player to carry a large part of the overall Eternal arc. But, stranger things have happened.