BATMAN ETERNAL mega thread 18-23

[Claude]

So it wasn't just my imagination? The dialogue in the last two issues with the Batgirl/RedHood/Batwoman storyline was a hot mess. Not to mention the pimping of Batgirl reached nauseating new heights. Batgirl don't need any backup, yall! She's a one woman army! Move over Lex Luthor, she's got the brain of a librarian! . . .And unlike that heartless cold husk of a Batman, she really currrs. Bleh.

Nah, Simone pimps Batgirl like that -("Turns out, I'm really good at computers" - seriously!?) - these last couple issues have, mostly, been Jason being a little wierdly, secretly obsessed. In a fairly charming way, but it's clear that he has much more regard for her than she does him. I'd filter a lot of what Red Hood says here for accuracy - especially since we know he was pretty much a Fanboy as soon as he met her.

[Dzetoun]

Nah, Simone pimps Batgirl like that -("Turns out, I'm really good at computers" - seriously!?) - these last couple issues have, mostly, been Jason being a little wierdly, secretly obsessed. In a fairly charming way, but it's clear that he has much more regard for her than she does him. I'd filter a lot of what Red Hood says here for accuracy - especially since we know he was pretty much a Fanboy as soon as he met her.

Yes, that is a new insight into Jason's character, or at least some of his attitudes. It adds another layer to his apparent dislike for Dick Grayson, at least, that two people for whom he had strong emotions (Babs and Bruce) had him perpetually labelled as "not as good as you-know-who."

[godisawesome]

Via Gotham Spoilers


BATMAN ETERNAL #31



Good god.

Ladies and gentlemen, we now have the DC equivalent of Team Hell No. And I do appreciate the way the Eternal staff is actually making those Forever Evil issues matter. Keeps the continuity tight and useful.

I will say that I too am somewhat disappointed with the pacing of some of the subplots, though I still feel the consistency is good enough to ease the problem. But I'm still feeling like Harper Rowe is just Stephanie Brown 2.0, which still feels weird when we've got Stephanie in the wings. However, I dig Team Red Headed Stepchild teaming up and I like the more subtle explanation of the villains powers. Hush is looking more and more like a strong suspect for this series.

[M L A]

I could've sworn I heard from some panel that they don't have direct plans for Hush yet. And that was all the way back in April/May when this book was just coming out and most likely already planned out near the very end.

[K. Jones]

King Croc is the best Croc we've had since the Eighties, absolutely. It's fun to think about the various contexts that have gone into putting him into this role, whether it's like ... him living in the sewers with Baby Doll in the Animated ... his similarities to the animal-men of the Crime Bible leading him down there ... the Arkham games ... those episodes of TAS where he like befriended a Freak Show ... or especially that one where that creepy not-Croc guy had homeless children as little sewer slaves.

Of course, artistic license, you know ... I'm never that fond of when Croc is this Hulk-sized beast. Batman is like 6' 2" and is HUGE ... Croc towering over him like that is straight up video-game. I hate it when they do it to Bane, too. These are Men! But I'm compromising lately because some of it is artistic license, and also, finally, N52 Croc, especially post-Seeley (and post-Francavilla) Croc looks like a weird mutant human now, not a big giant crocodile man or a T-Rex in pants.

Funny how easily Batman falls into an alliance with Croc. I loved the stuff last issue about Croc hating that cannibal reputation. I feel like I've read issues where he's like "I WILL EAT YOU!" but for all anyone knows, it's all criminal street thug hype. Bard was funny here. I wonder if Croc will at the least bite off Ten-Eyed Man's fingers. But I like how they're playing T.E.M. for the creep factor - it makes a nice bridge between his silly spandex era origins and Morrison's Ten-Eyed Ghost Men Tribe and rebel Nine-Eyed Man.

And that's just the Gotham stuff. What else? I really dug the silly name of Sr. Falsario. I dug the dismissive attitudes of the Bat-gang at him being so knock-off of superior super-villains. Jason was a bit fanboyish of Babs, but she IS the O.G. Batgirl who inspired him when he was Robin, and he doesn't have all that recent "OYL"/"Battle for the Cowl"/"Batman & Robin" new tension with her that he had with Dick, because she was busy doing her own things.

Babs does the personal growth "I'M MOVING ON!" thing in like three issues this week. The other two didn't feel as natural as this one, which is more just a step on the path of this storyline - and a step of progress, but it'll be neat to see if her appearances in Eternal continue, she's just in an awesome new costume.

Batwoman was nice here. Right to business.

The South America detour has actually been really pleasant for me. Seeley continues to play with some of that Batman, Inc. style - you wonder if like, some new ally or enemy will pop into the Brazil adventure. Or where they'll fly off to next. (Part of me; the part that likes believability, wonders how they got there in the first place! Jason took the "my BFF has a space-ship" route ... did Kate and Babs take the same train or something?

[godisawesome]

Y'know, I keep thinking that if they insist on portraying Croc as a superhuman warrior with subhuman looks, they could always just throw in an explanation that Hugo Strange mutated him some with his Monster Men formula, with some of the problems from that causing Croc's more beastial actions.

[sanderling]

I am really starting to enjoy this book overall, but man do I wish we could lose Harper Row. I get it, she is kick-ass and amazing, but she is also incredibly annoying. I am assuming that is her dad we've now tied into the Blackgate plot?

That scene with Jason and Batgirl was bittersweet.

[toddx77]

i really liked the art in this issue and focusing on Batgirl, Red Hood, and Batwoman was a nice touch as well. I also liked that line Killer Croc said about Gotham being so evil because Hell is underneath it. Has that ever been said before or was that the first time?

[catbatfan]

It could have been a sly reference to Buffy the Vampire Slayer (the high school was built on top of a hellmouth).

[Nite-Wing]

So does Jason have a crush on Babs or something? talk about pouring it on thick

[SiegePerilous02]

It could have been a sly reference to Buffy the Vampire Slayer (the high school was built on top of a hellmouth).

Lol, I immediately thought of this too when I read it. We know that there is more than one Hellmouth, whose to say we can't have one in Gotham

So...is anyone else kind of shipping Babs/Jason now, or is it just me?

[Dzetoun]

So does Jason have a crush on Babs or something? talk about pouring it on thick

He seems to have had a crush on her when he was a teenager. Now, it seems more like admiration layered with regret and some bitterness (as is not unusual with Jason).

[JasonTodd428]

Yes, that is a new insight into Jason's character, or at least some of his attitudes. It adds another layer to his apparent dislike for Dick Grayson, at least, that two people for whom he had strong emotions (Babs and Bruce) had him perpetually labelled as "not as good as you-know-who."

Which fits in with the whole idea that he knows Bruce and the rest but he really doesn't know them. He believes that they labelled him as "not as good at you-know-who" because maybe in his own mind he figures he's simply isn't "as good" on all levels as the rest of them. (Maybe this ties into the reasons why he would consider taking Venom?) Jason's problems always seem to stem from this feeling of inferiority he seems to have. Perhaps this is another thing he needs to work through in order to move on with his life.

Lol, I immediately thought of this too when I read it. We know that there is more than one Hellmouth, whose to say we can't have one in Gotham

You're not the only one to have that thought. There are times when I wonder if Gotham isn't built on a Hellmouth what with all the insane villains there.

[catbatfan]

Lol, I immediately thought of this too when I read it. We know that there is more than one Hellmouth, whose to say we can't have one in Gotham

So...is anyone else kind of shipping Babs/Jason now, or is it just me?

I always shipped Barbara with Jason....Jason BARD, that is. It's a shame these characters haven't interacted yet in Eternal. Hopefully that's coming up.

[Dzetoun]

Which fits in with the whole idea that he knows Bruce and the rest but he really doesn't know them. He believes that they labelled him as "not as good at you-know-who" because maybe in his own mind he figures he's simply isn't "as good" on all levels as the rest of them. (Maybe this ties into the reasons why he would consider taking Venom?) Jason's problems always seem to stem from this feeling of inferiority he seems to have. Perhaps this is another thing he needs to work through in order to move on with his life.

This seems to be a recurring theme with Bruce and his "children," doesn't it? Association with him is absolutely poisonous to self-esteem. In the New 52, it would seem that Jason and Tim have both been badly shaken, although they react in different ways. Damian, of course, went to his death to prove himself to Bruce. And as for Dick Grayson, well, it seems very complicated, although he is probably the most resistant to that.

In terms of Jason, nobody in the Bat Family seems to be very good at relating to him, at least to this point. Bruce and Babs are both distant, Tim seems admiring but we have yet to see him be all that engaged save for a couple of scenes very early on, Alfred is reserved by both nature and profession, Damian saw him as an obstacle, and Dick seems to return his dislike. It's almost as if they are all caught in a self-defeating cycle, which isn't nearly as bad at it was in the old continuity, but still doesn't let anybody really achieve lasting understanding. It's hard to know what would be more beneficial, for them to be closer together or farther apart.