Bigger threat to the Marvel univers?

[Michael Watkins]

No, I'm saying a prepped Doom can freaking beat Galactus and the Beyonders. Therefore he can beat Magneto, and almost anyone else. He along with Thanos are the 2 most dangerous being in the universe. They have the feats to back it up. Doesn't diminish Magneto in any way, but a prepped Doom is potentially on a whole other level.

this isn't a versus match. Magneto solo'd a team of X-men; the Phoenix included. he did it with a combination of skill and inherent power. Galactus is a jobber. Doom "beating" the Beyonders is just proof that so-called powerful beings can be caught with their pants down. Doom didn't just walk up and challenge them to a fight. it took a ludicrous amount of prep work. if you want to take it down to a versus fight, put them in a room. neither guy gets to use armor. just genetics vs genetics. Doom gets eviscerated.

[Michael Watkins]

Aside from maybe Thanos, he is the most dangerous being in the freaking universe. And the books treat him as such. Not that Magneto isn't likewise a very very credible villain... but Doom has always been potrayed in marvel as the top of the mountain. Been that way for a very very long time, and probably won't change.

the Void, Onslaught, Gravitron, Mephisto, Michael Korvac, Proteus, Apocalypse, Gamora...

Doom is only on the top of the mountain if you ignore mutants or anything outside of the Fantastic Four's small corner of the universe. i'd argue that Kang has done more damage.

[DragonsChi]

Give Doom time to prepare, and he can beat just about anyone. In Magnetos case it wasn't even really a fight. Magneto was frankly more a way for him to fight boredom.

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This moreso proves my overall point. Magento met Doom when Doom was ready for him in Dooms home.

Magneto is a genius too given time to prepare, along with his power the outcome probably would not be the same.

Not only that but it shows an I'll prepared Doom would probably loose to not only Magneto but to other characters. Which has been proven on multiple occasions.

Ergo Dooms THREAT level is sololy based on IF he is ready for you and IF he has the right tools available at that TIME.

Where as Magneto's threat level is ever present. Which in terms of the discussion being presented makes him more of a threat. Just by the definition of the word.

[DragonsChi]

If you honestly believe that Doom needs multiple other things beyond him to be a threat, then you obviously haven't read a whole lot of actual comics/cannon revolving Doom. Even without any outside assistance (including the offense and defensive abilities of his armor), he's can give Dr. Strange a run for his money.

But that aside, the thread does not specify who is the greater threat on their own... it asks who is the greater threat. And marvel has done a pretty good job establishing that Doom is probably the biggest threat not only on earth but in the entire universe. He literally has become the most powerful being in the universe multiple times. His loses against Luke Cage or Ant-Man are more than balanced out by wins against Galactus or the Beyonders. Aside from maybe Thanos, he is the most dangerous being in the freaking universe. And the books treat him as such. Not that Magneto isn't likewise a very very credible villain... but Doom has always been potrayed in marvel as the top of the mountain. Been that way for a very very long time, and probably won't change.

Your argument is faulty and ignores the definition of the term threat.

Someone who is a Threat should be "Threatening" at all times. It's not dependent on the situation or what is available to said person at the current moment.

[XPac]

he's a cheat. and there is a personal cost to abusing sorcery. that's why the Hood was able to just roll up and burn his face off. it's why Ant-Man was able to defeat him. he's someone who needs the element of surprise. Magneto, on the other hand, wants you to see him coming. he wouldn't plot for months to foment dissent in Wakanda just so he could steal from them. but he has that ability to plan long-term. he did recruit a SHIELD agent and let himself be arrested simply to make a statement; while crashing a helicarrier and having he marauders engage in a little wholesale slaughter. Magneto's dangerous because he's active. a living weapon doesn't need much preparation. his mission is simple; to kill mutantkind's enemies. and he has an impressive body count. Doom threatens people once or twice a year. and there are rarely permanent casualties or consequences. he's forgettable. they aren't discussing Doom at the U.N.

There's no such thing as "cheating" here... there isn't a rule book or a referre to call a disqualification. You get the job done if you get the job done.

And I don't dispute that Magneto isn't dangerous... he is easily one of the most powerful beings on the planet. Doom is just moreso. Again, plenty of feats to back it up.

[XPac]

Your argument is faulty and ignores the definition of the term threat.

Someone who is a Threat should be "Threatening" at all times. It's not dependent on the situation or what is available to said person at the current moment.

Doom is threatening at all times. Even without any additional outside resources, Doom is the equivalent of giving Dr. Strange Reed Richards brain and placing him in Iron Man armor. The Strange part alone makes him one of the most powerful beings on the planet... the rest of it is just icing on the cake.

Doom alone without any additional resources is probably the most dangerous person on earth. Give him prep, and he becomes the most dangerous person in the universe (apart from arguably Thanos). That's how he scales.

[XPac]

the Void, Onslaught, Gravitron, Mephisto, Michael Korvac, Proteus, Apocalypse, Gamora...

Doom is only on the top of the mountain if you ignore mutants or anything outside of the Fantastic Four's small corner of the universe. i'd argue that Kang has done more damage.

Hickmans Avenger had Doom causing more damange than every other villain in MU history combined. Granted he was doing it for a good reason... but as the Great Destroyer he was responsible for countless universes being destroyed. Universes plural... that's the scale we're talking about here. All the damage caused by all those people you mentioned COMBINED is still a small fraction of what Doom did.

[DragonsChi]

Doom is threatening at all times. Even without any additional outside resources, Doom is the equivalent of giving Dr. Strange Reed Richards brain and placing him in Iron Man armor. The Strange part alone makes him one of the most powerful beings on the planet... the rest of it is just icing on the cake.

Doom alone without any additional resources is probably the most dangerous person on earth. Give him prep, and he becomes the most dangerous person in the universe (apart from arguably Thanos). That's how he scales.

This statement is false, based mostly on hyperpoble and emotion.

Let's put it this way... If you lock Doctor Doom and Magneto in staunch naked in two separate prison cells with nothing inside them.

Doctor Doom with is various accomplishments, would still posse a threat to the cell he was in. Agruably, overtime to the prison itself given enough time. And that's it.


Magneto would still posse a immediate threat to the Earth and the very cell he was in wouldn't even need to be acknowledged by him.


That's the difference.

[XPac]

This statement is false, based mostly on hyperpoble and emotion.

Let's put it this way... If you lock Doctor Doom and Magneto in staunch naked in two separate prison cells with nothing inside them.

Doctor Doom with is various accomplishments, would still posse a threat to the cell he was in. Agruably, overtime to the prison itself given enough time. And that's it.


Magneto would still posse a immediate threat to the Earth and the very cell he was in wouldn't even be acknowledged by him.


That's the difference.

Statements like that stop being hyperbole when the person you're talking about has been capable of literally becoming the most powerful being in the universe multiple times. He's also managed to destroy most of the multiverse, if that gets him any points. Theres not a whole lot more you can do to really top that.

And again, Doom staunch naked in a prison cell is still the second most powerful sorcerer on earth. That gives you plenty of options.

[DragonsChi]

Statements like that stop being hyperbole when the person you're talking about has been capable of literally becoming the most powerful being in the universe multiple times. He's also managed to destroy most of the multiverse, if that gets him any points. Theres not a whole lot more you can do to really top that.

And again, Doom staunch naked in a prison cell is still the second most powerful sorcerer on earth. That gives you plenty of options.

....so we are now entering in a discussion not based on the thread topic or even reason but mostly if not completely based on emtion.

Especially, considering most of Dooms magic feats where with the assistance of magical artifacts or his own technology.

Without that then what? He is just a very smart man. Who for the most part can be dealt with as such.

With Magneto an extra step would need to be taken. Which is the remove or prevention of use of his powers, on top of dealing with him as a very intelligent and capable man. That extra step is an implied indication of who is more of threat at any given moment. Otherwise no extra step would be needed.

[XPac]

....so we are now entering in a discussion not based on the thread topic or even reason but mostly if not completely based on emtion.

Especially, considering most of Dooms magic feats where with the assistance of magical artifacts or his own technology.

Without that then what? He is just a very smart man. Who for the most part can be dealt with as such.

With Magneto an extra step would need to be taken. Which is the remove or prevention of use of his powers, on top of dealing with him as a very intelligent and capable man. That extra step is an implied indication of who is more of threat at any given moment. Otherwise no extra step would be needed.

I don't think my arguement is based on emotion.. I think it's pretty darn reasonable to argue a guy that became the most powerful being in the universe multiple times and destroyed most of the multiverse is the bigger threat. My emotion didn't cause any of that to happen... it's all canon in the books.

As far as Doom using magic without magical artifacts or technology...

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[kilderkin]

There's no such thing as "cheating" here... there isn't a rule book or a referre to call a disqualification. You get the job done if you get the job done.

And I don't dispute that Magneto isn't dangerous... he is easily one of the most powerful beings on the planet. Doom is just moreso. Again, plenty of feats to back it up.

This, exactly

Both are dangerous

Both have power, magnetos is mutation based and smart, doom is one of the most powerful mages on earth beside being super smart and super tech

when it comes to persistent threat and actual feats

I can readily accept that Magneto is a planetary threat

Doom has exceeded thus several times

There really is no comparison

[DragonsChi]

I don't think my arguement is based on emotion.. I think it's pretty darn reasonable to argue a guy that became the most powerful being in the universe multiple times and destroyed most of the multiverse is the bigger threat. My emotion didn't cause any of that to happen... it's all canon in the books.

As far as Doom using magic without magical artifacts or technology...

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And yet it is. Your entire argument ignores what I have been saying and pretty much relies on the fact that Doom stole power from other characters to rule the world/universe. However, while at the same time ignoring the fact that Magneto has never wanted or attempted world dominance. The notion is against Magneto's characterization and primary motivations. Not only that in every instance but one Doom has "taken over" Magneto was never there or involved to oppose him. So that argument in of itself is a non-starter.

I mean if you really want to play that game then it's fair to say that Magneto not only has more alternate realities where he has taken over the world but he also has more alternate realities that have shown him to be more successful at holding on to his power then Doom ever has.

You also ignored the fact that Doom himself says in that very panel that he was prepared and took measurements for Iron Man. So not only are you being a bit emotional but you are also attempting to be dishonest.

However, ignoring the blatant dishonesty in the nature of discussion using the term THREAT by all accounts Magneto is more of one because again if you isolate Doom at the end of the day he is just a guy. While Magneto wields one of the fundamental forces that binds the universe together.

Doom's level of threat is dependent on other factors.(sometimes multiple factors) While Magneto is dependent on how generous he is feeling that day.

[Michael Watkins]

Hickmans Avenger had Doom causing more damange than every other villain in MU history combined. Granted he was doing it for a good reason... but as the Great Destroyer he was responsible for countless universes being destroyed. Universes plural... that's the scale we're talking about here. All the damage caused by all those people you mentioned COMBINED is still a small fraction of what Doom did.

Which is it? Is he the great destroyer or the savior of the multiverse? I’d argue that he failed at both. Reed and Franklin certainly get credit. And the Beyonders did some serious damage. I don’t think that Doom’s con was explained. And it seemed to rely on a lot of coincidence and plot induced stupidity. It goes back to my assessment of doom as the beneficiary of creator wank.

[Michael Watkins]

This, exactly

Both are dangerous

Both have power, magnetos is mutation based and smart, doom is one of the most powerful mages on earth beside being super smart and super tech

when it comes to persistent threat and actual feats

I can readily accept that Magneto is a planetary threat

Doom has exceeded thus several times

There really is no comparison

Yet someone chose to compare them and imposed no guidelines. Threat to humanity? Threat to the planet? Threat to the cosmos? Why isn’t Thanos the other contestant? They have similar goals; that Magneto doesn’t share. And I will reiterate. Doom sees Magneto as a threat. The only other characters he’s showered with that much attention are Reed Richards (arguably more dangerous than Doom) and Namor (who would be a better competitor for Magneto). Magneto isn’t scared of or interested in Doom.