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  1. #46
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I remember one panel (can't recall who wrote it) where the Goblin is proposing his plan to kill Spider-Man to some crooks and one of them is mocking his costume.
    If that had taken place now or more recently, Goblin would've probably done something horrible on-page (or just off-page) to that crook to prove he was serious business. That being said, I thought the Marvel Knights Spider-Man redesign was a pretty solid update for the Goblin suit and he should've stuck with that, though Mike Deodato, Jr. did a good job of making the classic costume actually seem terrifying in Warren Ellis's Thunderbolts.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  2. #47
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    Norman as a General MU villain tends to run into the same problem that Batman runs into when he is with the Justice League. That is to say, he can feel like a different character than the one he is in his corner of the universe.

    In Spider-Man comics such as Revenge of the Green Goblin, A Death in the Family, and Marvel Knights: Spider-Man, the Green Goblin is a core part of Norman's identity - arguably his real identity with Norman the CEO being the "mask". In most of his MU stories however, the Green Goblin is treated as either a mistake on Norman's part or as just one of his many identities (along with Iron Patriot).

    I think in order for Norman's rise to feel more organic, the Green Goblin has to be a main reason as to how he attained that rise. I can imagine him as a snarker to the superhero community the way Spider-Man is to the supervillain community, only in Norman's case his jokes would be darker (i.e. poking fun at Tony's alcoholism or Pym's relationship issues).
    Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 08-09-2020 at 07:04 PM.

  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    Norman as a General MU villain tends to run into the same problem that Batman runs into when he is with the Justice League. That is to say, he can feel like a different character than the one he is in his corner of the universe.

    In Spider-Man comics such as Revenge of the Green Goblin, A Death in the Family, and Marvel Knights: Spider-Man, the Green Goblin is a core part of Norman's identity - arguably his real identity with Norman the CEO being the "mask". In most of his MU stories however, the Green Goblin is treated as either a mistake on Norman's part or as just one of his many identities (along with Iron Patriot).

    I think in order for Norman's rise to feel more organic, the Green Goblin has to be a main reason as to how he attained that rise. I can imagine him as a snarker to the superhero community the way Spider-Man is to the supervillain community, only in Norman's case his jokes would be darker (i.e. poking fun at Tony's alcoholism or Pym's relationship issues).
    Osborn did poke fun at Hank Pym being a wife beater.

    https://img.fireden.net/co/image/146...9678762698.jpg

    Ellis did a good job making Green Goblin look scary and impressive in his Thunderbolts run.

    You hit the nail on the head about Norman and Goblin's dichotomy not entirely translating on the big Marvel-wide stage.

  4. #49
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    Norman as a General MU villain tends to run into the same problem that Batman runs into when he is with the Justice League. That is to say, he can feel like a different character than the one he is in his corner of the universe.

    In Spider-Man comics such as Revenge of the Green Goblin, A Death in the Family, and Marvel Knights: Spider-Man, the Green Goblin is a core part of Norman's identity - arguably his real identity with Norman the CEO being the "mask". In most of his MU stories however, the Green Goblin is treated as either a mistake on Norman's part or as just one of his many identities (along with Iron Patriot).

    I think in order for Norman's rise to feel more organic, the Green Goblin has to be a main reason as to how he attained that rise. I can imagine him as a snarker to the superhero community the way Spider-Man is to the supervillain community, only in Norman's case his jokes would be darker (i.e. poking fun at Tony's alcoholism or Pym's relationship issues).
    They might be giving him a chance for that with the recent Ravencroft-related stories where it's turned out Osborn now answers to a new clandestine agency called JANUS that has plans for Ravencroft and needs Osborn in a position where he can help execute those plans. To that end, they've helped him get clean of all the charges against him for his rampage as the Red Goblin and his later actions under the delusion of being Cletus Kasady and bonded with a piece of the real Kasady's Grendel symbiote to transform him into a facsimile of classic Carnage. Also, considering that Marvel Knights Spider-Man revealed that Osborn was once involved in a corporate/governmental conspiracy to create supervillains to keep superheroes preoccupied from using their powers to meaningfully change/improve the world before becoming a supervillain himself . . . it could easily be explained that he obtained governmental connections that way, with even more clandestine forces in what used to be S.H.I.E.L.D. and more recently the likes of JANUS obtaining the fruits of his earlier labors to use against superheroes.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  5. #50
    Mighty Member Ying Ko's Avatar
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    He is up there with Doom. More should be done with him. The Spider-Man part of the MU just doesn't do enough with Norman.

    Hopefully Ravencroft was the beginning of something more.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ying Ko View Post
    He is up there with Doom. More should be done with him. The Spider-Man part of the MU just doesn't do enough with Norman.

    Hopefully Ravencroft was the beginning of something more.
    I honestly feel like we already have too much Doom. I'd prefer if Osborn doesn't reach THAT level.

  7. #52
    eXpat Odd Rödney's Avatar
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    He should absolutely be a general Marvel villain. I enjoyed the period when he was. It was a good evolution for the character. The Green Goblin flying around on the glider throwing bombs is classic, no doubt about it, but it is played out. There are so many stories left to tell where Osborn could be an Avengers level threat. I'd love to see that explored!
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  8. #53
    Astonishing Member pageturner's Avatar
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    He would have to get his company back and use those resources the go after whomever.

    Certainly could be done.

  9. #54
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageturner View Post
    He would have to get his company back and use those resources the go after whomever.

    Certainly could be done.
    Considering he's got a clean slate with the public now thanks to JANUS, he could make moves to take over Alchemax and oust Liz Allan and Harry Osborn. Given all the shady stuff that Alchemax has been up to since its founding in the contemporary MU, he could spin it with the public and the authorities to get the latter to investigate Liz's actions (and inaction) as CEO of Alchemax, then swoop in playing the reformer. And since he was part of Alchemax's founding in the first place (albeit under a new name and face), he'd know full well where the bodies were buried . . . and how to bury even more.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  10. #55
    Astonishing Member pageturner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Considering he's got a clean slate with the public now thanks to JANUS, he could make moves to take over Alchemax and oust Liz Allan and Harry Osborn. Given all the shady stuff that Alchemax has been up to since its founding in the contemporary MU, he could spin it with the public and the authorities to get the latter to investigate Liz's actions (and inaction) as CEO of Alchemax, then swoop in playing the reformer. And since he was part of Alchemax's founding in the first place (albeit under a new name and face), he'd know full well where the bodies were buried . . . and how to bury even more.
    Then again he just needs to invent a "flux Capaciter" or the like and his new start up would be a huge corporation in 3 issues. Or get at least some of his old holdings Either would work and could make him a large enough threat.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    They might be giving him a chance for that with the recent Ravencroft-related stories where it's turned out Osborn now answers to a new clandestine agency called JANUS that has plans for Ravencroft and needs Osborn in a position where he can help execute those plans. To that end, they've helped him get clean of all the charges against him for his rampage as the Red Goblin and his later actions under the delusion of being Cletus Kasady and bonded with a piece of the real Kasady's Grendel symbiote to transform him into a facsimile of classic Carnage. Also, considering that Marvel Knights Spider-Man revealed that Osborn was once involved in a corporate/governmental conspiracy to create supervillains to keep superheroes preoccupied from using their powers to meaningfully change/improve the world before becoming a supervillain himself . . . it could easily be explained that he obtained governmental connections that way, with even more clandestine forces in what used to be S.H.I.E.L.D. and more recently the likes of JANUS obtaining the fruits of his earlier labors to use against superheroes.
    Him having as much legal/corporate power as someone like Tony isn't as far-fetched, but the Norman from Spider-Man comics doesn't strike me as someone who would want to wear an Iron Man armor (at least not on a permanent basis). I think this is why some fans find Norman as an MU villain to be boring. Without the Green Goblin there and playing a significant role, Norman is a generic corporate villain at worst and Frank Underwood in an Iron Man suit at best.

  12. #57
    Astonishing Member pageturner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    Him having as much legal/corporate power as someone like Tony isn't as far-fetched, but the Norman from Spider-Man comics doesn't strike me as someone who would want to wear an Iron Man armor (at least not on a permanent basis). I think this is why some fans find Norman as an MU villain to be boring. Without the Green Goblin there and playing a significant role, Norman is a generic corporate villain at worst and Frank Underwood in an Iron Man suit at best.
    HE certainly could be a foe of more than spiderman Moonknight, DD, Shang, and a few others could come into conflict with him as well. Similar to the way Kingpin is primarily a DD bad guy but he gets around.

  13. #58
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    I never liked Norman at that level. It always felt incredibly forced to me. Even having him as some super evil mastermind behind everything wrong in Spider-man's life is pushing it.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd Rödney View Post
    He should absolutely be a general Marvel villain. I enjoyed the period when he was. It was a good evolution for the character. The Green Goblin flying around on the glider throwing bombs is classic, no doubt about it, but it is played out. There are so many stories left to tell where Osborn could be an Avengers level threat. I'd love to see that explored!
    Agreed. I thought Dark Reign was stupendous. A lot of untapped potential there. I think Osborn made a great foil for the MU. I always wanted Tony and him to go after each other again after Worlds Most Wanted.
    " This is why you're the head of S.H.I.E.L.D, Stark. Because you're stronger than anyone. It's not the armor....and you know it. Your here because impossible things happen, and when they do, They call on you to deal with them. You see the angles, Tony. You always have. You see the possible solutions to things that shouldn't be happening." CAROL DANVERS

  15. #60
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    He was great as a Marvel-wide villain but the price of taking away one of the best cards in a Spider-Man writer's deck may not be worth it when the list of possible big villains for Avengers/MU stuff is endless. If it happened again, it would require real coordination between offices, with the goal of telling new stories using Norman in other books without forgetting that he's a Spider-Man character and ideally his biggest developments would occur in that space.
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