"We live in a world of cowards. We live in a world full of small minds who are afraid. We are ruled by those who refuse to risk anything of their own. Who guard their over bloated paucities of power with money. With false reasoning. With measured hesitance. With prideful, recalcitrant inaction. With hateful invective. With weapons. F@#K these selfish fools and their prevailing world order." Tony Stark
Technically, Alchemax is the product of his old holdings, specifically Oscorp being merged with Allan Chemical and its acquisitions from Horizon Labs.
Frank Underwood in an Iron Man suit. Now that's a scary image.
Good points there, and I would add that it should come with a similar elevation of Spider-Man's role in the Marvel Universe.
The spider is always on the hunt.
Yeah, Iron Man and Osborn work well off of each other, lots more potential stories await!
I think it could be done. In addition, I think he could have big developments in both realms. He could take actions as a general Marvel villain that could result in consequences that also play out in the Spidey books. Surely the events that happened in other books during Dark Reign were felt in the Spidey books too, no? I honestly don't know as I wasn't reading Spidey at the time. Just X-Men and Avengers stuff.
Yes, this! Spidey is already a big character in the wider Marvel universe. Both he AND Norman could benefit from this!
Last edited by Odd Rödney; 02-19-2021 at 08:19 AM. Reason: Bye, bye blue!
"Kids don't care **** about superhero comic books. And if they do, they probably start with manga, with One Punch-Man or My Hero Academia. " -ImOctavius.
Dark Reign's impact on Spider-Man was addressed more directly in the BND (Brand New Day) arc called American Son, which was a five-part story with Spider-Man struggling to reconcile what he knew and had personally experienced of Norman Osborn's evil with Osborn's rehabilitated and enhanced public image in the wake of his "heroics" in Secret Invasion.
The spider is always on the hunt.
I mentioned on the previous page how Norman and Batman can run into the same problem of feeling like different characters outside of their corner of the universe. Taking this analogy further, Batman in the DCU seems to work best when his villains are also integrated into the larger DCU, and when we know where they stand relative to other villains. The Young Justice Batman for example feels natural being in the Justice League partly because of The Joker being in the Injustice League, Mr. Freeze being an equal to the other ice villains, and Clayface taking out the whole Team in one episode.
Without context of where Spider-Man stands in the superhero community after 10+ years of being Spider-Man (especially now that Miles Morales exists), I can understand why some people think it's weird that Norman can take on the Avengers but can't handle a working-class dude that is half of his age. Add to this the push to portray Peter as a stunted manchild since One More Day, and the contrast between the Norman in Spider-Man comics and the Norman in the larger MU gets wider.
Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 08-11-2020 at 06:26 PM.
Hmm, I think we get something at least slightly like that in Spider-Island and Ends of the Earth, where Spider-Man's enemies do become major setting-wide threats (potentially planetary in Spider-Island's case, actually planetary in Ends of the Earth's case) and it's Spider-Man who's responsible for rallying the other superheroes to stop them. Ends of the Earth even made it so that the Sinister Six led by Doctor Octopus and specially prepared and armed could beat the Avengers, which ought to be a lesson to them not to underestimate the caliber of villain that Spider-Man fought on a routine basis.
The spider is always on the hunt.
Given marvel is so NYC centric it is easier to have Norman come into conflict with Moonknight, DD, even Iron Man although he would need to upgrade his goblin suit.
In DC If another characters bad guy came knocking he sent them packing and out of Gotham.
I wonder how loud the wailing would be if we got a Norman led Masters of Evil (or essentially that with a better name.)
I would like something like that, but drop the "of Evil," just go with "The Masters." Could even frame it as a rebellion/uprising against the hypocrisy and corruption of those who would call themselves "good" or "heroes," like how Norman tried to stage his comeback with the public in the New Dark Avengers arc right before Avengers Vs. X-Men.
The spider is always on the hunt.
The only real interest i really have left for Norman as it relates to the world of Spider-man would be a confrontation with Ben Reilly so Ben could gain some measure of retribution for the hell he was put through during the Clone Saga and his death (the first one) at the conclusion of said saga.
I know Spencer is going to be using him pretty soon for the Kindred arc but his best stories and showings involving Spider-man are well behind him and to me there's too much potential stories to tell with other characters in the greater Marvel U for him to just be exclusive to Spider-man's world.
Last edited by classicgmer; 08-14-2020 at 03:43 PM.
I'd have liked to see that, too. With the resources Ben commanded in his guise as the Jackal, it did strike me as a fair bit of an oversight, to say the least, that he didn't track down Norman for some retribution --- or maybe he did. I mean, Emily Osborn suddenly revealed herself in Go Down Swinging, claiming she'd faked her death, and since the story on her death was originally that it was due to complications from giving birth to Harry . . . well, could say she was one of the "reanimations" Ben made, just to f*** with Norman.
The spider is always on the hunt.
Hmm, I would like to see something like this done with the Green Goblin and not just Norman Osborn.
I think Norman as an MU villain can have different dynamics with different heroes. His versatility is one advantage even Kingpin arguably doesn't have. The Kingpin may be an enemy to a bunch of heroes in the MU, but the heroes tend to hate him for the same reasons. Outside of Daredevil, Kingpin doesn't have a unique dynamic with anyone.
Norman however would be hated by different heroes for different reasons. Spider-Man hates Norman for how authoritarian and shady he is, but someone like Iron Man would see less of a problem with that in principle. Iron Man's main concern would be Norman's unpredictability and Trickster nature, which Spider-Man wouldn't take issue with in principle because he has those traits too.
Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 08-15-2020 at 06:03 AM.
Osborn was fantastic in Dark Reign, and absolutely cemented himself as worthy of being MU-wide villain (avoiding cosmic, of course)
"We live in a world of cowards. We live in a world full of small minds who are afraid. We are ruled by those who refuse to risk anything of their own. Who guard their over bloated paucities of power with money. With false reasoning. With measured hesitance. With prideful, recalcitrant inaction. With hateful invective. With weapons. F@#K these selfish fools and their prevailing world order." Tony Stark
I think Spider-Man's reasons for hating Osborn go a lot deeper than just not liking how Norman operates, given how much personal pain and misery Norman has inflicted on him over the years. That said, I'd think Iron Man would hate Osborn for the same reason he might have hated Stane and Hammer --- those guys are basically unreformed, unrepentant versions of the man he used to be, and Osborn is all that plus an unhinged murdering psychopath. If we got other heroes involved, I could see Daredevil hating him because Osborn frequently uses his money to twist the law so he never has to pay for the harm he's inflicted on others, which would deeply infuriate him as someone dedicated to the law even if he has to break it himself as a vigilante. Songbird would also have more personal reasons for hating Osborn, as the Thunderbolts were her chance to redeem herself and Osborn turned the team back into self-serving villains posing as heroes that he used as a springboard for his rise to power.
Last edited by Huntsman Spider; 08-15-2020 at 03:32 PM.
The spider is always on the hunt.