Event Leviathan issue #5 Preview/(spoiler) discussion

[marhawkman]

Hmm if Leviathan is from the future, then Leviathan could be a Brainiac. It fits his demeanor. He's like "I don't really want to kill you but... if you force me to defend myself...."

[Jackalope89]

Can't believe I missed one of the bigger clues in the issue: Leviathan confirms their "daddy issues" that were theorized by Green Arrow 2 issues ago.

When talking to Clark about the recent dealings with his dad in space, Leviathan says that they can relate to things not ending well with ones father. They double confirm it by saying they know that struggle.

Once again, Damian has a pretty famously complicated relationship with his father.

Mix in the fact that this issue once again confirmed that Leviathan's teleport tech is temporal in nature, and today's issue of Superman has the fortress A.I., Kelex, describe Saturn Girl's arrival and departure as temporal in nature (obviously), and I think it's clear that time travel is a clue. Also worth noting that, like Leviathan, Saturn Girl was able to penetrate the defenses of a place that's normally highly secure.

Future Damian. I'm telling ya.

Just to point this out; probably at least half of the established heroes have "daddy issues" of one sort or another. And the Bat Family as a whole (not just Damian), barring Barbara, can each write a book about it.

[Superlad93]

Ugh. I just got the worst thought: what if it's Ramsey? No clue who the hell that is without reading a totally different book from a totally different continuity or the aid of a wiki? Don't worry, you're basically most people (myself included). And what's worse is that technically-sorta-kinda-if-you-quint-real-hard you'll remember that Kate makes a passing mention about her son being away at summer camp in like last issue. With the concept of time travel related tech being one of the main points for Leviathan, and that adding a new dimension to the suspect list, and the link to his mom, he (a future version of him at least) becomes vaguely viable as a suspect.

But, and I say this again, that's gonna be met with a resounding "who?"

I genuinely hope that's not the case. I mean, technically it's better and slightly slightly more fair than Mark who-even-gives-a-f$%k or whatever his name is, but not by much. That's like saying "Ha! The killer was that guy in the picture that she looked at for approximately 2 whole seconds in passing and never mentioned ever again." There aren't nearly enough clues there.

My hope is that he's Leviathan (my guess being Damian) is 100% using some Manhunter tech, and, similar to Jason Kate was set up to draw focus, and to get his past self introduced to the tech. And this being the a future version, he may be allied with a grown up Ramsay.

Just to point this out; probably at least half of the established heroes have "daddy issues" of one sort or another. And the Bat Family as a whole (not just Damian), barring Barbara, can each write a book about it.

Obviously, I'm not making this statement in a vacuum. It's additive to other specifics of my theory (example: Leviathan is built on stolen tech. In this book Damian has made quite a lot of mention about stealing tech). But more importantly, "half the established heroes" are not and can not be suspects for this book while allowing it to be a solvable mystery for all reading. And the issue even starts by ruling out Jason and Barbara. Of the Batman family (aside from Bruce himself), Damian is all that's left in terms of reasonable (meaning mentioned in the book) suspects that haven't been ruled out.

[K. Jones]

I like all these Damian theories.

Is there an impetus for a connection between Batman 666 (who has been ... fairly absent as a concept for a while) and this current Leviathan direction? Certainly Damian being the inheritor and "owner" of Leviathan's iconography is logical on its own merits. Certainly Bendis's run features accelerated grown, temporal shenanigans, alt-futures, and more. Not discounting in and of itself the inclusion of Robin in the storyline to begin with, while also featuring Batman and Talia, and having that compare/contrast element to their super-friends, Clark, Lois and Jon. And a general inclusion of some Grandfathers going on in the overall DCU as a whole, with Jor-El's Oz storyline wrapping, Sam Lane's inclusion here, Ra's al Ghul a presence, if not specifically in this story, and Tom King using Flashpoint Batman. Not much going on with Grandmothers. Martha Kane remains quite dead. Melisande is probably dead. Lara Lor-Van is rather dead. And WHO EVEN IS Lois's mom these days?

Rebirth did at least feature ONE SCENE that was a "to be continued" in Teen Titans I think where before some of the Titans of Tomorrow stuff with Evil Future Tim Batman we saw Damian wake up in the 666 future (presumably after the nuke at Arkham Island) and get back up and start something. That plot never went anywhere.

Intriguing stuff.

[cranger]

I could be wrong, but I thought Bendis said that the location of the energy signature that Superman was heading to was important, and so sort of a mystery to be revealed this issue. Which character do we know has huge ties to Chicago that this would be a clue?

[Jackalope89]

Leviathan is Bibbo. Case closed.

[Vordan]

I’m still thinking Leviathan is Mark, Kate Spencer’s predecessor as Manhunter. Gorgeous art in today’s issue especially that spread of Leviathan’s forces.

[Superlad93]

Reread some stuff on my break, and in issue 2 there's a moment where Plastic Man says that he and Batman went over the Leviathan foot soldier deign and found out that it was extremely close to Batman's design. That another point for future Damian as far as I go.

Also, in the same issue, I want to point out that Leviathan said that similar to Plastic Man he was "born into a broken world" and it almost killed them. He then goes on to say to Plas that "what you and I have in common is that we took a step back, assessed our situation ourselves, and figured out what we need to start again before this world rolled over us like so many others." He also says that the two of them were born into unfair and dark lives.

That tracks for Damian, and not--to my knowledge-- anyone else still established as a fair suspect in the book. Basically from birth Damian was trained and mentally conditioned to be a killer, and when given the choice he decided to follow his father's code rather than his mother's and grandfather's that he grew up with and was conditioned under from birth.

And because of that, I think it's worth noting that Leviathan and his troops have yet to kill. They us stun weapons, hand-to-hand combat, and temporal teleportation tech for all of their attacks. Even when they went to get Waller, I noticed that they had energy shields in their hands rather than any sort of guns.

[Robotman]

The future Damian theory sounds pretty solid. It creates a possible future in which Damian takes over his mother’s role. Makes sense as we’ve already seen a possible future with him taking over the mantle of his father.

Anyone have a theory about the “snowman’s ticket”?

[manwhohaseverything]

Leviathan is Bibbo. Case closed.

Yep!
Leviathan = superman fan
Bibbo = superman fan
∴leviathan = Bibbo

[Jackalope89]

Yep!
Leviathan = superman fan
Bibbo = superman fan
∴leviathan = Bibbo

Exactly. Plus, Bibbo like both Clark and Supes, but isn't aware they're one and the same!

[Robanker]

I’m still thinking Leviathan is Mark, Kate Spencer’s predecessor as Manhunter. Gorgeous art in today’s issue especially that spread of Leviathan’s forces.

This is the word around Reddit as well and there's some good evidence compiled. I never really read anything with Mark so I'm glad the research has filled in the details. All roads lead to Shaw as far as I'm concerned.

[Korath]

I'll be honest, I'll be really underwhelmed if Leviathan turns out to be basically a nobody. I know that Mark Shaw has existed, but as far as I've read (Green Arrow Rebirth and this series), Kate Spencer has been the only Manhunter I know off. He wasn't even name-dropped before issue 5 (if he was, I'm not sure I read his name in the issue).

It won't break the Event:Leviathan for me, but I would be sad for the character to be either Shaw or Kate Spencer's child from the future. At least future Damian would be cool as a concept, and while I need to read Leviathan Rising again, I'm not sure he didn't know that Clark Kent was Leviathan. Talia didn't, and she was the one sending troops to Clark's apartment to kidnap him, while Leviathan just seemed bothered by Clark being here, while never hinting at the fact he didn't knew who he was - after all, he did remove the Kryptonite-fueled device but not the cuffs around Clark's wrists. Why would he do that if not because he knew who Superman is. Hell, his whole spiel is that he wants the same thing as Superman and he knows him and he knows how he thinks and that, had he been off-Earth when the takeover happened, Superman would have agreed with the idea of protecting what Leviathan had built!

And as far as I know, Mark Shaw never interacted with Superman, right ?

[Sam]

Bendis flat out said that Leviathan had to be someone who was part of the story for the solution to be a satisfying mystery. So if it turns out to be a Manhunter that is not Kate Spencer, it would be incredibly disingenuous on his part.

[cranger]

Leviathan just seemed bothered by Clark being here, while never hinting at the fact he didn't knew who he was - after all, he did remove the Kryptonite-fueled device but not the cuffs around Clark's wrists. Why would he do that if not because he knew who Superman is.

Leviathan knew Superman was coming because Talia was using Clark as bait. The kryptonite vest would have been a problem for Superman, which is why Talia put it on Clark, but with it gone he could break the cuffs off Clark.

To me the big hint is that Leviathan lifts Clark up and is surprised at how heavy he is.