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  1. #541
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    She definitely had elements of her own thoughts for certain, but she wasn't Jane. It wasn't her voice, it wasn't the way she spoke things, it wasn't her physical appearance. As mentioned before, it was a brand new person, a manifestation of both Jane Foster and the combine elements of Mjornir, this was specifically mentioned in the comics and is also the reason she had better control over Mjornir then Thor, because Thor was largely Mjornir.
    I mean, she basically took on Thor's persona. That persona that she exuded around people was basically classic Thor, which made Aaron's characterization for the actual Thor more jarring because he seemed to forget what Thor's actual personality was in favor of him acting like he hadn't grown up much from being young Thor.

    She had better control of Mjolnir because Mjolnir was mostly controlling itself. Mjolnir had more to do with making Jane Thor then making the original Thor into Thor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    This.

    All that said, Eric Masterson was Thor for a while if I remember correctly, before shifting to being Thunderstrike; so there's precedent for someone other than Thor Odinson being Thor.
    Well, Eric was pretending to be the original Thor if I remember correctly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    That said, Aaron was making a point about what the name Thor has come to mean to people. Jane took it as a title because of what being Thor is, and how the guy himself made it mean more than just his name, and how he'll even have to live up to what it's come to mean.

    But it is 10000% his Odin given name and not an alter ego or a title.
    I think the problem was the lead-up to the guy actually thinking he's not Thor anymore and then treating it like a mantle instead of his actual name.

  2. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    This.

    All that said, Eric Masterson was Thor for a while if I remember correctly, before shifting to being Thunderstrike; so there's precedent for someone other than Thor Odinson being Thor.
    Don't forget Bill Beta Ray & Storm were called Thor too.

    Folks want to cherry pick when it help fuels youtube hits but history tells a different story.

    Folks can't get mad about Jane while ignoring everyone else who held that hammer.

    Same with Cap America. We have had how many folks beside Steve? With one being Luke Cage's daughter.

  3. #543
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Don't forget Bill Beta Ray & Storm were called Thor too.

    Folks want to cherry pick when it help fuels youtube hits but history tells a different story.

    Folks can't get mad about Jane while ignoring everyone else who held that hammer.

    Same with Cap America. We have had how many folks beside Steve? With one being Luke Cage's daughter.
    I don't think Bill was ever actually called Thor. He may have had Thor's armor the first time he wielded the hammer but they pretty clearly distinguished him from the actual Thor.

    I also don't think Storm has ever been the legitimate Thor in current continuity. At least not like Jane was.

  4. #544
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think the problem was the lead-up to the guy actually thinking he's not Thor anymore and then treating it like a mantle instead of his actual name.
    But even that is still done in the context of him being thousands and thousands and thousands of years old, and having a very real self image issue that he had to overcome as his character arc. That's why the God Butcher's words hit so hard. They basically said that the legend and idea of who Thor is and what that names means to people isn't and shouldn't be a given because it goes beyond the flawed individual that he actually is, so just as he must prove himself worthy every single time he picks up his hammer, he has to prove himself worthy of all the good that people expect from that name.

    But even still the name Thor remains his actual name. It just means a whole bunch because, again, he's very, very, very old, and a large part of him is myth.

    Circling this back to DC, this just isn't the case with any DC character being mentioned for the 5G swap. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Aquaman are all titles and nicknames that stuck. Some fans disagree, and that's cool, and opinions should be respected, but DC disagrees with you and has been disagreeing since all of those characters were made. As early as the 50s Superman had stories where he'd meet future holders of the name Superman in his bloodline. Pretty famously, DC One Million gave us Kal Kent aka "Superman One Million" and a literal dynasty of people who went by Superman in their era.

    And in the culture we live in, getting the ability to both look up to the hero in question AND "see yourself in the mask" is really strong and relevant. And the thing is--and this is the part rubs some more seasoned fans the wrong way-- it may not be for you. Straight up. That's facts. There's going to be someone out there who's gonna read Luke Fox Batman and says "that's my Batman" for one reason or another.

    DC wants to see if that person would like to check out a few more comics and become a fan, and they're hoping that the seasoned vets are good enough sports to give this thing and its possible new fans some room, and maybe check out a few books too.
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  5. #545
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    But even that is still done in the context of him being thousands and thousands and thousands of years old, and having a very real self image issue that he had to overcome as his character arc. That's why the God Butcher's words hit so hard. They basically said that the legend and idea of who Thor is and what that names means to people isn't and shouldn't be a given because it goes beyond the flawed individual that he actually is, so just as he must prove himself worthy every single time he picks up his hammer, he has to prove himself worthy of all the good that people expect from that name.
    Gorr's criticisms never seemed squarely centered around Thor though. Gorr's criticisms were only about gods in general, and how Thor was the outlier, it didn't seem to involve how flawed Thor is until Aaron needed to make the Unworthy storyline happen and then cranked up Thor's flaws.
    But even still the name Thor remains his actual name. It just means a whole bunch because, again, he's very, very, very old, and a large part of him is myth.
    And it's not something I think should be freely bandied about or taken like it's a codename or mantle.
    Circling this back to DC, this just isn't the case with any DC character being mentioned for the 5G swap. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Aquaman are all titles and nicknames that stuck. Some fans disagree, and that's cool, and opinions should be respected, but DC disagrees with you and has been disagreeing since all of those characters were made. As early as the 50s Superman had stories where he'd meet future holders of the name Superman in his bloodline. Pretty famously, DC One Million gave us Kal Kent aka "Superman One Million" and a literal dynasty of people who went by Superman in their era.
    I mean, even with that in mind one could just as easily say that DC disagrees with themselves on that front with the numerous stories they have told emphasizing how certain individuals in those titles are truly the only ones who can really embody and hold them.

    I can't tell you the number of storylines that have emphasized that only Bruce Wayne can truly be Batman, even compared to his successors who have tried to make the role their own, which is probably why Scott Snyder came up with that clone gimmick.

    That's actually kind of the paradox of legacy stories in that so often their "stories" eventually become about bringing back the original version. Even Wally wasn't immune to this versus Barry.

    Although the JSA always kind of get gypped on that front .
    And in the culture we live in, getting the ability to both look up to the hero in question AND "see yourself in the mask" is really strong and relevant. And the thing is--and this is the part rubs some more seasoned fans the wrong way-- it may not be for you. Straight up. That's facts. There's going to be someone out there who's gonna read Luke Fox Batman and says "that's my Batman" for one reason or another.
    And that's fair, although...I dunno, I'm not sure just how many new people come into comics anymore with legacy stories. After ANAD Marvel I could see people being skeptical of this and how committed DC is to it.

    But people will probably check out the new #1's, which I guess is what matters.

  6. #546

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    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    Its not really a living religion like hinduism. Sure there are followers but its more of a revival or attempt to recreate the religion than an unbroken thread across the millenia.
    That doesn't really matter. People did and still do put their faith in these gods. Nomatter how small of a number they are. Treating it like you can walkover them just because they are small in number is not cool. If that is the intention that's just cowardly.
    Having said that, i have no problem with people talking, debating and criticising any religion. It should be done.Freedom of speech is very important.

  7. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    That doesn't really matter. People did and still do put their faith in these gods. Nomatter how small of a number they are. Treating it like you can walkover them just because they are small in number is not cool. If that is the intention that's just cowardly.
    Having said that, i have no problem with people talking, debating and criticising any religion. It should be done.Freedom of speech is very important.

    Even if these characters aren't worship in the classic sense, theses myths are the legacy of our ancestors. I'm not for treating them so sacrosanct that we make no revisions but I do think some humility amd reverence is warranted. These stories are very important in mankind's search for meaning. I'm not one of those "it's only funny books" guys, as you can tell.
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  8. #548
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Gorr's criticisms
    It had to do with Thor's insecurities of himself and how he took Gorr's words even if they were not aimed at him specifically.

    I mean, even with that in mind one could just as easily say that DC disagrees with themselves on that front with the numerous stories they have told emphasizing how certain individuals in those titles are truly the only ones who can really embody and hold them.
    the ebb and flow of trends, dude. DC doesn't operate in a vacuum.

    And that's fair, although...I dunno, I'm not sure just how many new people come into comics anymore with legacy stories. After ANAD Marvel I could see people being skeptical of this and how committed DC is to it
    .

    That second sentence makes no sense as a follow up to your first because the people in question are new. Are you implying that perspective readers keep track of these marking pushes the same way we do? Because that's just not true. What usually happens is that they see something on a twitter, facebook, or IG feed, or they see an ad for it, or they hear some buzz. They're not keeping score or track like your or I.

    But people will probably check out the new #1's, which I guess is what matters.
    Exactly. The prospect of getting in on the ground floor of a new Batman or Superman's journey easily appealing. We may be jaded towards the idea of a new number one (for whatever reason), but they are legitimately effectives for people that are not us.
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  9. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    It had to do with Thor's insecurities of himself and how he took Gorr's words even if they were not aimed at him specifically.
    But Aaron never really showed a point where it seemed to "click" and really put a chink in his armor up until that whisper, which came from probably the last person Thor would have listened to on that front. He didn't really seem insecure about it beyond when he showed it in his face that, to some degree, he believed Gorr was right...but that never really impeded him either.
    the ebb and flow of trends, dude. DC doesn't operate in a vacuum.
    I'm not saying they don't, but even if they're taking inspiration from ANAD...it didn't operate all that differently from the examples I stated other then trying to sell you on the legacy hero maybe more then past instances (more often then not at the expense of the original in some form or another).
    That second sentence makes no sense as a follow up to your first because the people in question are new. Are you implying that perspective readers keep track of these marking pushes the same way we do? Because that's just not true. What usually happens is that they see something on a twitter, facebook, or IG feed, or they see an ad for it, or they hear some buzz. They're not keeping score or track like your or I.
    I think if it's targeting a similar audience, unless they completely missed ANAD, it's a valid concern to bring up.
    Exactly. The prospect of getting in on the ground floor of a new Batman or Superman's journey easily appealing. We may be jaded towards the idea of a new number one (for whatever reason), but they are legitimately effectives for people that are not us.
    Man, I'm suddenly reminded of the New 52. Although this will be even "newer" .

    Although having new people in the roles might assuage the general stigma that constant new number ones more often then not provide diminishing returns rather then proper jumping on points, as I feel Marvel should have learned by now.

  10. #550
    Astonishing Member vasir12's Avatar
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    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/10...-dc-comics-5g/

    Seems like the Green Lantern from the upcoming "Far Sector" Jo might be the next main lantern

  11. #551
    Astonishing Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Okay I can believe Jon, Luke, and potentially Jo(though Id rather see Simon and Jessica). But Iím a little hesitant to even remotely trust the idea that Captain Boomerangís son would be the Flash. Iím sorry but that just feels so far removed that it doesnít feel even remotely real.

    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/10...-dc-comics-5g/
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  12. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by vasir12 View Post
    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/10...-dc-comics-5g/

    Seems like the Green Lantern from the upcoming "Far Sector" Jo might be the next main lantern
    Now this could be interesting. Far Sector has some interesting ideas and if it’s good I wouldn’t mind Jo taking center stage.

  13. #553
    Astonishing Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Now this could be interesting. Far Sector has some interesting ideas and if it’s good I wouldn’t mind Jo taking center stage.
    See for me it’s not a bad idea, but while Teen Lantern seemed like an odd choice Jo is just completely too new. I mean her first appearance only comes out tomorrow so we really don’t have anything to base on whether she is a good choice or not. That much to me at least is why it seems like an odd choice. That’s not to say she’s out of the running, but I’d rather there be a wait to see how the character performs or to wait and see how everyone responds.
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  14. #554
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    See for me it’s not a bad idea, but while Teen Lantern seemed like an odd choice Jo is just completely too new. I mean her first appearance only comes out tomorrow so we really don’t have anything to base on whether she is a good choice or not. That much to me at least is why it seems like an odd choice. That’s not to say she’s out of the running, but I’d rather there be a wait to see how the character performs or to wait and see how everyone responds.
    Well the gamble is they’re not picking people who would be the obvious choice to take over (except for Jon but that’s a whole different can of worms).

    So far we’ve potentially got two white guys and two black people taking over, Luke Fox and Jo. Where’s the Latino or Asian rep DC? Kenan should be the guy taking over for Clark not Jon.

  15. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by vasir12 View Post
    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/10...-dc-comics-5g/

    Seems like the Green Lantern from the upcoming "Far Sector" Jo might be the next main lantern
    I thought the appeal of this new Earth Lantern was that she was divorced from main continuity and the competition for panel time between all the other Earth Lanterns.

    Although I guess she's more feasible then Teen Lantern.

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