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  1. #826
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I'd say that's ironic because Wonder Woman retiring from helping the larger world so she can rule over highly capable amazons in paradise sounds even less like Diana. At least if she becomes the counter to Leviathan and maybe even tries to keep her organization honest from the inside she's still helping people.
    If Diana was leading the Amazons, I imagine they would probably be a lot more active in Man's World then they were under Hippolyta, so that is a believable way I can see her helping Man's World without going the Nick Fury route (which doesn't fit, in my opinion).

  2. #827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I'd say that's ironic because Wonder Woman retiring from helping the larger world so she can rule over highly capable amazons in paradise sounds even less like Diana. At least if she becomes the counter to Leviathan and maybe even tries to keep her organization honest from the inside she's still helping people.
    That's assuming the Amazons are capable at all which i would is not the case following the recent run.

  3. #828
    Astonishing Member Nick Miller's Avatar
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    Letís not fool ourselves, in 2050, there are going to be 40,000 fools buying Justice League and Action Comics at Googlemart.

  4. #829
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Kyle Rayner, who was originally conceived as just being white I believe, received a LOT of backlash from Hal Jordan fans when he was invented. And a lot of Wally West fans despise Barry. Spider-Man fans didn't care for the revelation that Peter was a clone and his equally white double Ben Reilly was replacing him, etc.

    There are doubtless quite a few assholes out there that specifically do not like minorities replacing white heroes, but I think most comic fans in general just do not like to lose their favorites period and don't care one way or the other who is doing the replacing. We didn't hear about it back in the Golden Age because all those properties were dead anyway, and comic readers back then just grew up and stopped giving a shit about comics (plus no internet and social media to take to even if they did). So I don't think we have reason to believe that Dataweaver is "hiding their actual feelings." The idiots who post about how they don't want to see anyone non-white in their comics don't generally post in places like this, and their posts would rightfully be deleted if they did.

    Plus, why should minority heroes get hand me down names? Black Panther and Storm don't have to put up with that shit.
    I would also add that there was no real backlash (that I'm aware of, at least) to John Stewart becoming Green Lantern, James Rhodes becoming Iron Man, or Monica Rambeau becoming Captain Marvel back in the 70s and 80s. As well, the fans apparently had less of a problem with Cassandra Caine becoming Batgirl than the management at DC had with it: the impetus to remove her from that role came from the latter and not the former.

    It's not about race; it's about being ham-handed. Replacing one hero in an organic way can work, depending on who, how, and why; replacing a bunch of them all at once or in rapid succession is far less likely to, as the deck is going to be stacked against you from the start.
    Rogue wears rouge.
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  5. #830
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    40,000 fools
    I'll just pretend that by 'fools' you meant the people who complain about the 5G stuff in forums nearly everywhere that'll hypocritically buy the 5G books that they claim to hate, but can't resist on reading...or keeping a tight lip about to prevent it from getting more exposure from the public.

  6. #831
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Pretend all you want. In my case, I dropped DC cold turkey at the start of New 52 and didn't come back until Convergence and Multiversity — and even then, I didn't really get back in until Rebirth.

    There may be some hypocrites who say they don't like 5G but buy it anyway; but I wouldn't count on them being enough to be worth mentioning. If 5G succeeds, it will be because there are fans who honestly support it.
    Rogue wears rouge.
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  7. #832
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    I would also add that there was no real backlash (that I'm aware of, at least) to John Stewart becoming Green Lantern, James Rhodes becoming Iron Man, or Monica Rambeau becoming Captain Marvel back in the 70s and 80s. As well, the fans apparently had less of a problem with Cassandra Caine becoming Batgirl than the management at DC had with it: the impetus to remove her from that role came from the latter and not the former.

    It's not about race; it's about being ham-handed. Replacing one hero in an organic way can work, depending on who, how, and why; replacing a bunch of them all at once or in rapid succession is far less likely to, as the deck is going to be stacked against you from the start.
    Nobody had an issue back then because they understood what STORY LINE meant. They chose to follow the story and see where it ends up. Generally with the replacement getting a new name and the original coming back.

    Today-the vocal troll is mainly the loser who has not read a comic book since the 90s.
    It is someone who don't know comic book history.
    It's someone who looking for youtube revenue and hate speech gets them that.

    That is the main group you saw go after Marvel. Because they could not tell you why they were mad about a certain book-that happened to star a POC.
    They mad up stuff constantly while harassing creators of color, gender & sexuality.

    Dick & James Gordon took over as Batman-no rage.
    Winter Solider was Cap American-no rage.
    Doom called himself IRONMAN not Riri.

    I did not see a book with a white replacement get stabbed, set on fire, eaten, peed on, colored out or flushed down a toilet. I saw that for many books with POC and especially WOMEN of color.

    It's about RACE. Because those books should have gotten the same treatment. And books like Mosaic should NOT have because he did not replace anybody.

    Also Cassandra & Kaldar took names no one was using. Just like Kamala. Yet who got attacked?

    Oh Jaime "we want Ted" Reyes, Duke "we want a white sidekick" Thomas, Ryan "we want Ray" Cho, Sam "we want Rich" Alexander & Jason "I no longer exist" Rusch got backlash. What do they have in common with Ms marvel, Miles, Moon Girl, Riri Williams & Kate Bishop.

    It's silly to think DC won't get that and thensome. Especially for those who think if this fail Dan loses his job. SO they REALLY have ammo to use.

  8. #833
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    If all they did was flush the book down the toilet then they got off lightly as i believe dan slott got death threats when he swopped peter parker for dr ock.

  9. #834
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    If all they did was flush the book down the toilet then they got off lightly as i believe dan slott got death threats when he swopped peter parker for dr ock.
    I remember the issue where Ock went on a date with MJ and thought about starting a relationship with her, and people equated it to implications of rape. Slott got so much hell for that run and nothing about it was related to race or gender. If anything, Anna Maria Marconi was one of the best received new characters from Superior Spider-Man. People don't want their favorites to be messed with and that's all there is to it. Whether they're being replaced or killed off or retconned into being clones or turned into supervillains or having their mind get taken over, it just doesn't matter, people will always make their voices heard whenever they feel like their favorite characters are being mistreated in some way. If some people wish to boil it all down to race or to "classic fan mentality", then that's their prerogative I guess.
    Last edited by Johnny; Yesterday at 06:53 PM.

  10. #835
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    With very few exceptions (such as the aforementioned Superior Spider-Man and Kyle Rayner) white legacy characters do not generally get anywhere near the same level as vitriolic backlash as their non-white counterparts.

  11. #836
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Totally wrong on there being no rage with Gordon as Batman. It was pretty hated. This is just one example, I'm not painting with a wide brush here, but with Batman the rage is coming not because Luke Fox is black, its because he's not Bruce or Dick, the only character fans have accepted as taking over the cowl. Gordon was white and was pretty summarily rejected.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; Yesterday at 11:17 PM.
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  12. #837
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    With very few exceptions (such as the aforementioned Superior Spider-Man and Kyle Rayner) white legacy characters do not generally get anywhere near the same level as vitriolic backlash as their non-white counterparts.
    That might also be because there were hardly any new white legacy characters created in the past 10-15 years.

    And charterers like Dick Grayson and Jim Gordon are part of the Batman Comics since the beginning, having them as replacement is quite different and feels more organic, then just introducing a newly created character to directly take over the mantle.

    People were probaly also more open to Luke Fox as Batman, if it wasn't the 3rd time in the last 10 years they are replacing Batman, and if he was more popular.

    But sofar he was mostly used as replacement.
    - first he replaced David as Batwing
    - then he replaced Dick after his "death" as Barbaras love interest
    - and after this he came in as replacement for Tim when he "died" in Tec

    And then there was the time in Batman Eternal, when the writers forgot about him for ~10 issues ...
    Last edited by Aahz; Yesterday at 11:39 PM.

  13. #838
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    5g might be lies.

  14. #839

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    Honestly 5g feels more like a rumor taking on a life of it's own than something concrete.

    But the fan theories make it interesting. Right now im most interested in YJ possibly going through a 3-5 year timeskip than anything else.

    Granted if an adult Beast Boy reforms the Doom Patrol I'll support it.

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