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  1. #1501
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Yeah, among the signs:

    Batman is now using Lucius Fox as Alfred's replacement. Makes sense if Lucius's son is to take over the mantle.
    Teen Titans solicits indicate that Damian's Robin tenure is ending, which would free Luke to recruit a new one.
    Justice League's current arc is filler.
    Justice League Odyssey is heading for it's endgame.
    Legion of Super Heroes suggests someone is quitting. I wonder if it's Superboy, so he can come home and become the new Superman? They've also mentioned there being different 20th and 21st century Supermen.
    Young Justice just added a few new members - because the classic four will be aged out?
    Flash is heading for it's endgame.
    Nightwing's Ric Grayson storyline is finally getting close to ending.
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  2. #1502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Yeah, among the signs:

    Batman is now using Lucius Fox as Alfred's replacement. Makes sense if Lucius's son is to take over the mantle.
    Teen Titans solicits indicate that Damian's Robin tenure is ending, which would free Luke to recruit a new one.
    Justice League's current arc is filler.
    Justice League Odyssey is heading for it's endgame.
    Legion of Super Heroes suggests someone is quitting. I wonder if it's Superboy, so he can come home and become the new Superman? They've also mentioned there being different 20th and 21st century Supermen.
    Young Justice just added a few new members - because the classic four will be aged out?
    Flash is heading for it's endgame.
    Nightwing's Ric Grayson storyline is finally getting close to ending.

    Oh lord when you see it laid out like that it really does remind me of exactly what happened heading into New 52.

  3. #1503
    Astonishing Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Yeah, among the signs:

    Batman is now using Lucius Fox as Alfred's replacement. Makes sense if Lucius's son is to take over the mantle.
    Teen Titans solicits indicate that Damian's Robin tenure is ending, which would free Luke to recruit a new one.
    Justice League's current arc is filler.
    Justice League Odyssey is heading for it's endgame.
    Legion of Super Heroes suggests someone is quitting. I wonder if it's Superboy, so he can come home and become the new Superman? They've also mentioned there being different 20th and 21st century Supermen.
    Young Justice just added a few new members - because the classic four will be aged out?
    Flash is heading for it's endgame.
    Nightwing's Ric Grayson storyline is finally getting close to ending.
    Actually I think Bendis has flat out said that Jon will be back by May in Action Comics so that he can do something called the House of Kenya, also he will be meeting Conner. In all fairness though Legion of Superheroes is time travel so he could be in that series for a while before we get to the point he comes back in Action.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
    Words to live by.

  4. #1504
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Not sure if it fits in here, but Bleeding Cool posted about the background of 5G and how it tied into Dan DiDio being fired.
    I was right on the money. WB saw the benefits that Marvel is receiving from ANAD, which New 52 would have done for DC if it was executed correctly, and decided a round 2 was in order, and it definitely is. WB knows the comic book market is crashing. Rebirth is selling worse than New 52, which clearly indicates returning to the status quo was actually a worse decision for DC than moving forward with New 52. And DC needs a new generation of heroes to help allow DC to reach new demographics in the mainstream media properties.
    I noticed something was in the wind when for example Val Zod was confirmed to be in the pipeworks this year at the same time that folks started clamoring for a black superman in the mainstream audience. WB see's what the general audience is requesting for, and is deciding to fill that void so it can finally catch up with Marvel.

  5. #1505
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    I was right on the money. WB saw the benefits that Marvel is receiving from ANAD, which New 52 would have done for DC if it was executed correctly, and decided a round 2 was in order, and it definitely is. WB knows the comic book market is crashing. Rebirth is selling worse than New 52, which clearly indicates returning to the status quo was actually a worse decision for DC than moving forward with New 52. And DC needs a new generation of heroes to help allow DC to reach new demographics in the mainstream media properties.
    I noticed something was in the wind when for example Val Zod was confirmed to be in the pipeworks this year at the same time that folks started clamoring for a black superman in the mainstream audience. WB see's what the general audience is requesting for, and is deciding to fill that void so it can finally catch up with Marvel.
    Only a few titles actually still go by "Rebirth", and most of the rest that do, are in name only. Usually with a major direction change and author switch up. So to still keep calling it "Rebirth" seems rather disingenuous.

  6. #1506
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    [*]Superman: Jon Kent
    [*]Wonder Woman: Hippolyte Trevor
    [*]Batman: Man-Bat
    [*]Aquaman: An entirely new, elemental and non-Atlantean character.
    [*]Green Lantern: I don’t know her name, but the recently introduced female Lantern.
    [*]Flash: Barbara Randall’s abandoned, post-Crisis, female, light based character.
    [*]Hourman: Entirely new, non-Miraclo connected, character.
    [*]Catwoman: Helena Wayne
    [*]Greenarrow: A new Native American shaman/mystic.

  7. #1507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Only a few titles actually still go by "Rebirth", and most of the rest that do, are in name only. Usually with a major direction change and author switch up. So to still keep calling it "Rebirth" seems rather disingenuous.
    I disagree, almost all of the books going forward are continuation from the books released from Rebirth. As such, it's part of the Rebirth framework. For example, some classic fans here like to indicate ANAD dropped it sales, but like Rebirth, most did not go by ANAD at that time, in fact, the settling of sales didn't happen until the Marvel Legacy era. (And even that was selling better than the current running of "Rebirth") But that doesn't stop classic fans from looping the cooling of sales to the original ANAD initiative. So people need to pick their poison.

  8. #1508
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    I disagree, almost all of the books going forward are continuation from the books released from Rebirth. As such, it's part of the Rebirth framework. For example, some classic fans here like to indicate ANAD dropped it sales, but like Rebirth, most did not go by ANAD at that time, in fact, the settling of sales didn't happen until the Marvel Legacy era. (And even that was selling better than the current running of "Rebirth") But that doesn't stop classic fans from looping the cooling of sales to the original ANAD initiative. So people need to pick their poison.
    Most books don't follow the same direction. Rebirth died a million deaths with wally west. It isn't metaphorical. Its the truth. None, of the books follow rebirth framework nor does it have the tone or spirit.This has nothing to do with classic or non classic. Many new characters got changed direction. Rebirth was about hope, history and legacy. None of those things are part of the current nonsense.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 02-26-2020 at 11:28 AM.

  9. #1509
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Most books don't follow the same direction. Rebirth died a million deaths with wally west. It isn't metaphorical. Its the truth. None, of the books follow rebirth framework nor does it have the tone or spirit.This has nothing to do with classic or non classic. Many new characters got changed direction. Rebirth was about hope, history and legacy. None of those things are part of the current nonsense.

    I can understand your perspective, but I disagree that it has nothing to do with classic versus non classic. You only need to see this thread to look at how many times ANAD has been criticized as dying in sales, and yet no one here has came up with the disagreement you and others presented, because it matches their narrative. Yet when I placed Rebirth in the exact same boat, suddenly current books are not part of the same direction of Rebirth. So that's why I said people have to pick their poison.

    If we want to say that books from Rebirth and ANAD were only established from their original initiative, then both Initiatives were successful and the gradual changes to the books cause the eventual reduction in sales. If we want to say that books that continues the stories from Rebirth and ANAD, even when the logo isn't assigned to the book, are still part of that initiative, then both ANAD and Rebirth sales eventually dropped to their end levels.


    And to say Wally West Treatment is the entire reason for Rebirth dying is a bit odd, Wally West is far from the most popular character in DC. He's definitely not responsible for the entire company line to be at the sales it currently is. It's understandable that people are frustrated with what's being done with Wally West, but he's definitely not the only reason DC is at the current state it is in today.

  10. #1510
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I wonder if the potential for 5G for media adaptions is why they seem like they'll be killing a lot of characters off in Justice League Dark: Apokolips War and treating it with so much finality...although I doubt it.

    I'm not expecting to hear Gaius Charles as Batman anytime soon.
    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    I can understand your perspective, but I disagree that it has nothing to do with classic versus non classic. You only need to see this thread to look at how many times ANAD has been criticized as dying in sales, and yet no one here has came up with the disagreement you and others presented, because it matches their narrative. Yet when I placed Rebirth in the exact same boat, suddenly current books are not part of the same direction of Rebirth. So that's why I said people have to pick their poison.

    If we want to say that books from Rebirth and ANAD were only established from their original initiative, then both Initiatives were successful and the gradual changes to the books cause the eventual reduction in sales. If we want to say that books that continues the stories from Rebirth and ANAD, even when the logo isn't assigned to the book, are still part of that initiative, then both ANAD and Rebirth sales eventually dropped to their end levels.
    I think you can make a connection to when books became less Rebirth-y even as runs that started on Rebirth kept going...but to be fair, there's only, like, King on Batman that really kept on going. Pretty much everyone else left their titles.
    And to say Wally West Treatment is the entire reason for Rebirth dying is a bit odd, Wally West is far from the most popular character in DC. He's definitely not responsible for the entire company line to be at the sales it currently is. It's understandable that people are frustrated with what's being done with Wally West, but he's definitely not the only reason DC is at the current state it is in today.
    Wally's pretty darn popular. From a thematic standpoint he represented a lot about what Rebirth is about.

  11. #1511
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I wonder if the potential for 5G for media adaptions is why they seem like they'll be killing a lot of characters off in Justice League Dark: Apokolips War and treating it with so much finality...although I doubt it.

    I'm not expecting to hear Gaius Charles as Batman anytime soon.

    I think you can make a connection to when books became less Rebirth-y even as runs that started on Rebirth kept going...but to be fair, there's only, like, King on Batman that really kept on going. Pretty much everyone else left their titles.

    Wally's pretty darn popular. From a thematic standpoint he represented a lot about what Rebirth is about.
    Lol I doubt the animated people are happy about that if that is indeed the plan. They butchered DickBats and that was a critically and commercially successful replacement. I doubt Luke will get treated any better. Plus unless WB is willing to take some losses on this, I don’t expect a Luke Fox Batman movie to perform better than a Bruce Wayne movie especially among the hardcore these movies are geared towards.

  12. #1512
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Lol I doubt the animated people are happy about that if that is indeed the plan. They butchered DickBats and that was a critically and commercially successful replacement. I doubt Luke will get treated any better. Plus unless WB is willing to take some losses on this, I don’t expect a Luke Fox Batman movie to perform better than a Bruce Wayne movie especially among the hardcore these movies are geared towards.
    Plus they do these films so well in advance that I'm not sure if they were privy to 5G at all.

    Really, the only place I can see these characters popping up is in Young Justice. Most other DC media don't really operate to where I can see 5G stuff being implemented that much.

  13. #1513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I wonder if the potential for 5G for media adaptions is why they seem like they'll be killing a lot of characters off in Justice League Dark: Apokolips War and treating it with so much finality...although I doubt it.

    I'm not expecting to hear Gaius Charles as Batman anytime soon.

    I think you can make a connection to when books became less Rebirth-y even as runs that started on Rebirth kept going...but to be fair, there's only, like, King on Batman that really kept on going. Pretty much everyone else left their titles.

    Wally's pretty darn popular. From a thematic standpoint he represented a lot about what Rebirth is about.

    Oh I'm not disagreeing that Wally isn't popular. But he's still only one character, and he's not batman, or even superman. He may held some of the values that Rebirth was representing, but his mistreatment doesn't change how much people are enjoying batman, or the justice league, or superman, etc. I just don't believe DC's current failing in sales is due to people being like "I dislike how DC is treating Wally, I'm going to drop all of my batman books."

  14. #1514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Plus they do these films so well in advance that I'm not sure if they were privy to 5G at all.

    Really, the only place I can see these characters popping up is in Young Justice. Most other DC media don't really operate to where I can see 5G stuff being implemented that much.
    Oh Plans can definitely change. In case people forgot, Black Panther was originally supposed to be release earlier. But due to Marvel license rights with Sony, they push back the film in favor for Spider Man (even though Black Panther made MUCH more, but that's a different story.) DC and Michael B Jordan were/are already in talks of possibly having a black superman movie, while at the same time Dan Didio and Bendis confirmed we should be expecting Val Zod. So I'm pretty sure what's currently being planned in 5g is having synergy effects with other media properties.
    Last edited by leo619; 02-26-2020 at 01:02 PM.

  15. #1515
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Oh Plans can definitely change. In case people forgot, Black Panther was originally supposed to be release earlier. But due to Marvel license rights with Sony, they push back the film in favor for Spider Man (even though Black Panther made MUCH more, but that's a different story.) DC and Michael B Jordan were/are already in talks of possibly having a black superman movie, while at the same time Dan Didio and Bendis confirmed we should be expecting Val Zod. So I'm pretty sure what's currently happening being planned in 5g is having synergy effects with other media properties.
    I don't think that's the case with the animated films.

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