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  1. #796
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    I'm “nonchalant” in that I've come to terms with the fact that nothing I say or do is going to change it; so it's not worth getting worked up over it.

    That, and I also know that it will fail. Mind you, I'm not rooting for it to fail; if I could muster enough energy to care about it at all, I'd be hoping that they somehow manage to make it work. But I've seen this before (and done better), in the wake of the Crisis on Infinite Earths when we got Wally West, Tim Drake, the Reign of the Supermen, Azrael, Artemis, Kyle Rayner, Jack Knight, Connor Hawke, Linda Danvers, and Cassandra Caine. Other than the substitute Supermen, Azrael, and Artemis, who were conceived from the beginning as temps, that lasted fifteen years before they started reversing things in the early 2000s (starting with the return of Oliver Queen). Final Crisis completed the reversion with the return of Barry Allen, but ironically kicked off a mini-wave of replacements in its wake; ironically, Tim Drake lost his role as Robin by being replaced by yet another Robin, as Dick Grayson took over the role of Batman and Stephanie Brown became Batgirl. By the time Flashpoint struck, the Titans generation had pretty much become the Justice League. But this, too, got undone by the aforementioned Flashpoint.

    5G will also end up reverting, assuming that superhero comics don't crash first. Popular 5G characters will end up getting new codenames, or will go back to their pre-5G codenames if they're pre-existing characters who get repurposed. I'm not saying that that's a good thing or a bad thing; just that it is what it is.
    Last edited by Dataweaver; 12-06-2019 at 07:55 PM.
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  2. #797

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    Bad idea. They tried this at Marvel and completely alienated their readership, simply because when people pick up Wolverine they want to see Logan not someone else.

    The one major event that completely alienates a reader, outside of bad writing, is killing off and replacing their favourite characters with someone else.

    In my time, with the exception of a few heroes. I have had most of my favourite characters killed off or completely tampered with at one point or another (Hal Jordan; goes insane, Oliver Queen, Blown up in a helicopter, Vic Sage dies of cancer, Ted Kord, has his brains blown out, Legion of super heroes (revamped so many times they become unrecognizable) Wally West, seemingly a mass murder, Roy Harper murdered by his best friend.

    They can bring in 5G, but many readers will be saying goodbye to DC.

  3. #798
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    I think the main difficulty is how to take the current nameholders out of action without disrespecting them. That, coupled with the notion that this is an initiative and all these replacements will be kicking in pretty much simultaneously, which only intensifies the first problem. A gradual series of retirements each involving a good ending for the retiree and a passing of the torch to someone that the readers acknowledge as a worthy successor, is pretty much the only way this could work. And if the successor isn't the obvious choice, there'd better be a darn good reason why the obvious choice didn't get it.
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  4. #799
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    The proposed Black Label with classic stories from the current heroes alongside 5G is a great idea.

    And Rebirth sales dropped faster than New 52 mind you.
    Last edited by ross61; 12-07-2019 at 04:52 AM.

  5. #800
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ross61 View Post
    The proposed Black Label with classic stories from the current heroes alongside 5G is a great idea.

    And Rebirth sales dropped faster than New 52 mind you.
    Keep in mind the New 52 didn't replace any of the major characters all in one go the way this one might. We're dealing with a different beast here

  6. #801
    Astonishing Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    I'm “nonchalant” in that I've come to terms with the fact that nothing I say or do is going to change it; so it's not worth getting worked up over it.

    That, and I also know that it will fail. Mind you, I'm not rooting for it to fail; if I could muster enough energy to care about it at all, I'd be hoping that they somehow manage to make it work. But I've seen this before (and done better), in the wake of the Crisis on Infinite Earths when we got Wally West, Tim Drake, the Reign of the Supermen, Azrael, Artemis, Kyle Rayner, Jack Knight, Connor Hawke, Linda Danvers, and Cassandra Caine. Other than the substitute Supermen, Azrael, and Artemis, who were conceived from the beginning as temps, that lasted fifteen years before they started reversing things in the early 2000s (starting with the return of Oliver Queen). Final Crisis completed the reversion with the return of Barry Allen, but ironically kicked off a mini-wave of replacements in its wake; ironically, Tim Drake lost his role as Robin by being replaced by yet another Robin, as Dick Grayson took over the role of Batman and Stephanie Brown became Batgirl. By the time Flashpoint struck, the Titans generation had pretty much become the Justice League. But this, too, got undone by the aforementioned Flashpoint.

    5G will also end up reverting, assuming that superhero comics don't crash first. Popular 5G characters will end up getting new codenames, or will go back to their pre-5G codenames if they're pre-existing characters who get repurposed. I'm not saying that that's a good thing or a bad thing; just that it is what it is.
    I’m kind of in this frame of mind as well, I’ve got slight interest in what it could be like and maybe I’ll even find something I really like depending on who the creative teams are....however let’s be honest in that we know this won’t be permanent. In all seriousness I would potentially give DC a lot of props if they did make it permanent because that would be shocking, but it won’t be because we’ve seen this happen before multiple times over multiple years and DC always reverts back eventually. Maybe some status quo shifts occur, maybe some smaller characters get bigger roles and stick around for a while but at the end of the day Bruce Wayne will be Batman, Clark Kent will be Superman, and etc. I say at this point just sit back and see where the ride takes us and hope they put some good creative teams on the titles.
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  7. #802
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    So who won't get replaced? Lobo? Harley :P?

  8. #803
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    I think you'll get a shorter list if you look at who will be replaced. If they're doing a time skip (which makes sense with the “Black Label” thing: time-skip the main publications, but leave the Black Label stuff in the G4 era), they may end up changing out more than just the A-List heroes; but for the most part, I expect it will just be them and maybe a few B-List heroes.

    If they do a time-skip, I'd recommend at least ten years to leave plenty of room for the Black Label books to run without feeling like they need to be retroactively “setting the stage” for 5G.
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  9. #804
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    So who won't get replaced? Lobo? Harley :P?
    Well, last time Lobo got replaced, there was a LOT of backlash for the fake. So, he's pretty safe, I'd say.

    Another? Probably Jason Todd.

  10. #805
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Basically it sounds like everyone that shouldn't be replaced will be. So if you imagine a character whom it wouldn't be that big a deal to swap out, there's a puncher's chance characters like that won't change at all, as those types of characters don't fit the point of this mega gimmick.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 12-07-2019 at 01:01 PM.
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  11. #806
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    I have a question. How is this any different from goldenage guys getting changed by silverage guys? Only batman (and maybe wonder woman. I don't know. I am not knowledgeable regarding her character) wasn't replaced. I don't include superman because he too was changed with another different version of him with different characterisation. Ofcourse it was gradual but changes were very much visible and created a different character entirely . It's not like superhero comics market is doing gang buster right now. Someone compared this state of the market to the downswing of that era.

  12. #807
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    The difference was that the bulk of the Golden Age heroes had been out of publication for a decade when the Silver Age began.
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  13. #808
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I have a question. How is this any different from goldenage guys getting changed by silverage guys? Only batman (and maybe wonder woman. I don't know. I am not knowledgeable regarding her character) wasn't replaced. I don't include superman because he too was changed with another different version of him with different characterisation. Ofcourse it was gradual but changes were very much visible and created a different character entirely . It's not like superhero comics market is doing gang buster right now. Someone compared this state of the market to the downswing of that era.
    White folks replacing white folks for the most part.

    Also like Dataweaver said most of those guys were already out of publication. With some eventually finding a way to comeback and later coexist with who replaced them.

    Comics were still for kids back then.

    This sounds like a case of being LAZY. Why throw Luke in Bruce's suit when it's better to build him as Batwing? All that investment needs to go to Batwing not a guy in Batman's suit.
    Batman as a brand does not need help selling or getting books on the shelf. Same with Superman, WW and Aquaman.
    No matter who is in that suit-they get the benefits of Batman brand.

    You have to invest in original guys-yes it will be hard and tiresome but it pays off-see Black Panther.

  14. #809
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dataweaver View Post
    The difference was that the bulk of the Golden Age heroes had been out of publication for a decade when the Silver Age began.
    Out of publication, yeah! I forgot about that. But, still what if the guys currently in the title are deemed bad enough by the business guys to be put out of publication like in that era. You know, maybe they think the current guys aren't reaching enough people or are only reaching small amount of people . I mean, instead of putting a stop to it they might have decided to use the same formula from the start.

  15. #810
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    White folks replacing white folks for the most part.

    Also like Dataweaver said most of those guys were already out of publication. With some eventually finding a way to comeback and later coexist with who replaced them.

    Comics were still for kids back then.

    This sounds like a case of being LAZY. Why throw Luke in Bruce's suit when it's better to build him as Batwing? All that investment needs to go to Batwing not a guy in Batman's suit.
    Batman as a brand does not need help selling or getting books on the shelf. Same with Superman, WW and Aquaman.
    No matter who is in that suit-they get the benefits of Batman brand.

    You have to invest in original guys-yes it will be hard and tiresome but it pays off-see Black Panther.
    How does race matter? Jay garrick and barry allen are different characters. It might not mean much but they are.so is, Clark kent(silverage) and clark kent(goldenage) two different characters. And as for coexistence,superman, batman.. Etc will still be there.
    Batman is selling well in a shrinking market. That might be a concern for the business guys. I am just playing devil's advocate here. That forbes article and the 5G seems to be too coincidental.

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