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  1. #1516
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Oh I'm not disagreeing that Wally isn't popular. But he's still only one character, and he's not batman, or even superman. He may held some of the values that Rebirth was representing, but his mistreatment doesn't change how much people are enjoying batman, or the justice league, or superman, etc. I just don't believe DC's current failing in sales is due to people being like "I dislike how DC is treating Wally, I'm going to drop all of my batman books."
    He doesn't have to be. He was main character that started the launch and was pushed into being a murderer.His and titans treatment led to the decline. Dick got ric'd. Donna became a joker thing. Roy got killed by wally. Everyone else got disbanded.superfamily is'nt a family anymore with jon being aged and supersons dead. Legions meeting with superman was hollowed out. All of these just cemented rebirth as a storyline's death. Story and direction matters. Superman nor batman represents rebirth.Wally west and his generation does. Batman can't be nightwing nor wally west. The same goes for superman.Those two have never been sidekicks.

  2. #1517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't think that's the case with the animated films.
    Are we talking about animated films/shows on the DC Universe or DC animated films in the movie theater. I could possibly see DC Universe animated films being slower to change, because Marvel seems to be the same. We saw Miles Morales headlining his own movie before we saw an animated cartoon of him headlining his own series, same with Ms.Marvel and Mighty Thor. Oddly enough, the cartoons have seemed to be the last media properties to heavily showcase the heroes.

    But animated movies that are sent to the theater, I can see there being some attempts in synergy.

    But ultimately no one really knows, we'll just have to wait and see what comes up.

  3. #1518
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    He doesn't have to be. He was main character that started the launch and was pushed into being a murderer.His and titans treatment led to the decline. Dick got ric'd. Donna became a joker thing. Roy got killed by wally. Everyone else got disbanded.superfamily is'nt a family anymore with jon being aged and supersons dead. Legions meeting with superman was hollowed out. All of these just cemented rebirth as a storyline's death. Story and direction matters. Superman nor batman represents rebirth.Wally west and his generation does. Batman can't be nightwing nor wally west. The same goes for superman.Those two have never been sidekicks.

    And I think this is where you'll find disagreement, which is fine. But not everyone ideals behind what Rebirth represented fell square on the shoulders of Wally West Generation of Heroes. Much of the demand for Rebirth lie to returning to more of a pre-52 state, such as nu-superman dying along with his relationship with wonder woman, Martian Manhunter returning as main stay 7 while Cyborg went off, Wonder Woman's history returning closer to a pre-52 standard and much much more. So to many Rebirth fans, the treatment of the Wally West Gen is an ancillary effect to the books that they themselves were concerned about. As such, those readers got what they ask for. So what's happening to Wally West, I highly doubt, would effect their enjoyment of their demands met for the books they were interested in reading like Batman, Superman, Justice League, etc

  4. #1519
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    And I think this is where you'll find disagreement, which is fine. But not everyone ideals behind what Rebirth represented fell square on the shoulders of Wally West Generation of Heroes. Much of the demand for Rebirth lie to returning to more of a pre-52 state, such as nu-superman dying along with his relationship with wonder woman, Martian Manhunter returning as main stay 7 while Cyborg went off, Wonder Woman's history returning closer to a pre-52 standard and much much more. So to many Rebirth fans, the treatment of the Wally West Gen is an ancillary effect to the books that they themselves were concerned about. As such, those readers got what they ask for. So what's happening to Wally West, I highly doubt, would effect their enjoyment of their demands met for the books they were interested in reading like Batman, Superman, Justice League, etc
    Dude, Rebirth storyline literally started with the guy. And martian manhunter? Really, that is the most trivialest of things compared to the titans. The things you mentioned where the minor things, not the main. Wonderwoman's continuity changes doesn't matter to overarching rebirth storyline. Because she herself had zero to do with it, even with that cameo in doomsday clock. Superman was important. I will admit because of Doomsday clock. But, even then Preflashpoint superman was brought in as superdad. That was the draw for the character. He ain't that anymore. So how is this rebirth?Even then clark doesn't embody any spirit of rebirth other than hope.And in this particular context, even that doesn't work. Once, again the story matter. Rebirth was a grand narrative. It wasn't just a relaunch. They fumbled it and sank it.

  5. #1520
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Are we talking about animated films/shows on the DC Universe or DC animated films in the movie theater. I could possibly see DC Universe animated films being slower to change, because Marvel seems to be the same. We saw Miles Morales headlining his own movie before we saw an animated cartoon of him headlining his own series, same with Ms.Marvel and Mighty Thor. Oddly enough, the cartoons have seemed to be the last media properties to heavily showcase the heroes.

    But animated movies that are sent to the theater, I can see there being some attempts in synergy.

    But ultimately no one really knows, we'll just have to wait and see what comes up.
    Frontier and I are talking about those direct to DVD movies like Red Son that came out yesterday. Those are aimed at the hardcore only which is why he and I are skeptical of any claims they’ll be replacing Bruce Wayne with Luke Fox. These movies barely make any money as it is, I doubt swapping the characters out with people no one has heard of (no offense to Luke Fox) will help.

  6. #1521
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Are we talking about animated films/shows on the DC Universe or DC animated films in the movie theater. I could possibly see DC Universe animated films being slower to change, because Marvel seems to be the same. We saw Miles Morales headlining his own movie before we saw an animated cartoon of him headlining his own series, same with Ms.Marvel and Mighty Thor. Oddly enough, the cartoons have seemed to be the last media properties to heavily showcase the heroes.
    Miles was in animation on the small-screen before Into the Spider-Verse, ditto Kamala and JaneThor before their MCU debuts, although never really as headliners unless you think of Kamala as the headliner for Marvel Rising.

  7. #1522
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Any use of 5G in future adaptations wouldn't necessarily be a 1:1 change. I doubt across the board everything would start using the new characters (or really anything) but given the way elements of the New 52 have been present in nearly every piece of media DC has put out in the meantime, I imagine certain parts of 5G would begin being used.

    Hell, given that WB clearly doesn't have any more interest in the Snyder/Cavill version of Superman, I could totally see a situation years down the line where they do some sort of "Son of Superman" reboot instead.
    Last edited by Holt; 02-26-2020 at 07:57 PM.

  8. #1523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Plus they do these films so well in advance that I'm not sure if they were privy to 5G at all.
    Well, if the 5G is as big a push and priority for all of WB/AT&T's DC IP related stuff, and has as much forethought behind it as we're being lead to believe, then the memo has likely gone out. Plus, Flashpoint Paradox was only 2 years after the comic version and the reboot, and Justice League War was only a year after that. The animation division may just understand the general breakdown and idea of the 60 year timeline and the 5G switch, and they'll do their own spin on that. With the new JL Dark film they'll be theoretically changing the inciting incident for the shift in continuity.

    And I reread the press release for the Man of Tomorrow film, it says that it'll be a "standalone film".
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  9. #1524
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Somehow I don't see 5G JL turning up in Movies. Not animated and not live Action. I also don't believe for a second that we won't get ongoings with the Dc main headliners running along side their replacements.

    [Batman [and Harley] subsidises a lot of low selling titles.]

    If WB wants synergy then they can do with established characters. If 5G delivers a breakout gem then maybe they make it into the animated universe.

  10. #1525
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Somehow I don't see 5G JL turning up in Movies. Not animated and not live Action. I also don't believe for a second that we won't get ongoings with the Dc main headliners running along side their replacements.

    [Batman [and Harley] subsidises a lot of low selling titles.]

    If WB wants synergy then they can do with established characters. If 5G delivers a breakout gem then maybe they make it into the animated universe.
    It's weird, my understand was that the point of the timeline they were establashing was so that we could get titles from each generation. Like the rumored JSA & Wonder Woman book in gen 1. But I haven't seen bleeding cool or any other rumor site make mention of that.

  11. #1526

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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Oh Plans can definitely change. In case people forgot, Black Panther was originally supposed to be release earlier. But due to Marvel license rights with Sony, they push back the film in favor for Spider Man (even though Black Panther made MUCH more, but that's a different story.) DC and Michael B Jordan were/are already in talks of possibly having a black superman movie, while at the same time Dan Didio and Bendis confirmed we should be expecting Val Zod. So I'm pretty sure what's currently being planned in 5g is having synergy effects with other media properties.
    I donít remember hearing anything like that about Val-Zod. Even when other Superman have appeared in books, we have yet to see Val-Zod anywhere.

  12. #1527
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayson - The Dark Heir View Post
    I don’t remember hearing anything like that about Val-Zod. Even when other Superman have appeared in books, we have yet to see Val-Zod anywhere.
    Leo is basing his belief on Didio telling him there were “big plans” for Val-Zod when he asked Didio about Val at a panel last year (I think it was at SDCC but Leo can correct me if otherwise). Leo thinks that those “plans” involve Val taking over one of the main Superman books to co-star with Jon. To be honest I find that a big leap in logic myself, but I didn’t want to be a dick and crush Leo’s dreams. “Plans” is such a nebulous term that it could mean anything from “we’ve talked about Val showing up in cameos”, which HAS happened, to the opposite extreme that Leo has settled on which is that Val will be starring in one of the main books. None of the 5G rumors have mentioned Val at all like you said, and there’s no real indication he’ll be playing a major role like Leo thinks. With Didio gone it’s even less likely. We won’t know for sure until 5G gets officially revealed and explained.

  13. #1528
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    DC had the chance to revamp its starting lineup years ago. Dick was Batman, Wally was Flash, Conner and Kyle were the green team. Donna and Tempest could have stayed their personal course, and the JLA would have been familiar, yet reinvented.
    I am personally just waiting for 5G to be over now.

  14. #1529
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Well, if the 5G is as big a push and priority for all of WB/AT&T's DC IP related stuff, and has as much forethought behind it as we're being lead to believe, then the memo has likely gone out. Plus, Flashpoint Paradox was only 2 years after the comic version and the reboot, and Justice League War was only a year after that. The animation division may just understand the general breakdown and idea of the 60 year timeline and the 5G switch, and they'll do their own spin on that. With the new JL Dark film they'll be theoretically changing the inciting incident for the shift in continuity.
    If WB does such a full court press on 5G then it would certainly be something not even Marvel was willing to do (unless it involved the movies for the most part).

    At the same time, while Apokolips War seems set for some kind of reboot moment or timey-wimey change, I don't think it's going to lead to something as dramatic as 5G. Unless the next Teen Titans film ends up being a prequel set before the JLD movie, but I'm not expecting that.
    And I reread the press release for the Man of Tomorrow film, it says that it'll be a "standalone film".
    I forget if that was the case for past in-continuity films before they were revealed to be in-continuity, or if they went for a generic "all new original story" moniker.

    Either way, unless they're finally breaking the pattern of two in-continuity films per year, it's hard to tell at this stage.

  15. #1530
    Mighty Member Katana500's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    If WB does such a full court press on 5G then it would certainly be something not even Marvel was willing to do (unless it involved the movies for the most part).

    At the same time, while Apokolips War seems set for some kind of reboot moment or timey-wimey change, I don't think it's going to lead to something as dramatic as 5G. Unless the next Teen Titans film ends up being a prequel set before the JLD movie, but I'm not expecting that.
    Do we know there is going to be another Teen Titans Film?

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