DC 5G: the Replacements

[Dataweaver]

White folks replacing white folks for the most part.

Not this again.

The bulk of the resistance to 5G has nothing to do with diversification. Look over this thread: every time the notion that white guys don't like that their heroes are being replaced by minority groups comes up, it's not brought up by those white guys who don't want their heroes replaced; it's brought up as accusations against those white guys. Then we go a few pages where the white guys have to defend themselves against baseless accusations of bigotry. Can we just skip that this time and get back to the actual arguments that have been made by 5G's critics?

[Robanker]

Changing tunes from the usual faire, when status quo eventually reigns supreme and the usual suspects come back into the fold, will 5G eventually be revealed as some alternate timeline or another Rebirth scenario?

[Dataweaver]

Who knows? It all depends on how they do 5G. If it bombs badly, they'll probably try to undo it by rewriting the timeline; if it does reasonably well but still fails, they'll probably keep it in place and just bring the originals out of retirement.

[Vordan]

Out of publication, yeah! I forgot about that. But, still what if the guys currently in the title are deemed bad enough by the business guys to be put out of publication like in that era. You know, maybe they think the current guys aren't reaching enough people or are only reaching small amount of people . I mean, instead of putting a stop to it they might have decided to use the same formula from the start.

I doubt they think Bruce Wayne isn’t connecting with people lol. And apparently WW will WB the first one replaced when she’s literally just about to have her second movie. This is another gimmick overseen by Didio to save his job.

[Dataweaver]

Johns' biggest mistake with Rebirth was walking away and leaving it in Didio's hands. It's understandable why he did t
it; but it was still a mistake.

[Vordan]

Johns' biggest mistake with Rebirth was walking away and leaving it in Didio's hands. It's understandable why he did t
it; but it was still a mistake.

In all fairness Johns was making it up as he went along. He didn’t even plan on actually following up to the Watchmen tease until after the 2016 election. So it was inevitable that without offering a long term plan and then having DDC delayed by 2 freaking years that TPTB would choose to go do their own thing.

[Dataweaver]

I'll take Johns' “making it up as you go along” over Didio's “grand plans”. Especially since in part Johns' approach involves more receptivity to the audience. As well, Johns' attitude toward characters that he doesn't personally like is… well, I don't actually know: I have no idea which characters Johns dislikes. Either he likes every character that DC makes, or he doesn't trash the characters he doesn't like. Either way, that's an improvement over Didio.

[Frontier]

I doubt they think Bruce Wayne isn’t connecting with people lol. And apparently WW will WB the first one replaced when she’s literally just about to have her second movie. This is another gimmick overseen by Didio to save his job.

Not to mention...why replace Aquaman just when people are starting to take him seriously again?

Marketing-wise it just doesn't make sense to me beyond the idea that diversity sells, but if you're going to still promote the main versions for the most part...where's the sense?

[Superlad93]

I doubt they think Bruce Wayne isn’t connecting with people lol. And apparently WW will WB the first one replaced when she’s literally just about to have her second movie. This is another gimmick overseen by Didio to save his job.

But she's also likely headlining the JSA book and becoming the first costumed hero in DC continuity. I'm also thinking it's possible that the reason she retires in 5G is because she's about to become DC's Nick Fury/Maria Hill/Steve Rogers during the Heroic age as the director of the counter terrorism organization being put together to fight Leviathan. I can't be the only one who has noticed that she's the only character outside Superman who has had a Leviathan tie-in (she'll be having at least two soon). And Bendis said that this counter group would have a "Wolverine" in the sense that it will be a popular character who you wouldn't expect to see doing the job. Diana working as the director for this group seems to fit the bill for now.

In terms of exposure, I doubt the big three will be short ultimately. Didio also said that the stories in 1G and 2G apparently haven't been told yet, so be it through Black Label, the pop-up minis they love doing, or getting fleshed out in the JSA book, Clark, Bruce, and Diana seem to be covered even if the main line is refocused.

[manwhohaseverything]

Well the thing is batman, aquaman and wonder woman are popular as icon and have become popular. But, it's strictly movie side and for batman it's the good will from btas and dark knight trilogy .but, movies don't generally affect business of comics. It has been proven. Keep in mind the trend is superhero right now. It could change. Then comics would just be dead in the water.We have already seen counter movement towards comic book movies by vetrens like scorsese. Marvel is going to start putting out 4 movies a year plus disney streaming service shows. Oversaturation is happening.So,chances of the trend changing is there.
Keep in mind they aren't removing these characters or their history. Just shifting importance.

[leo619]

Why is this thread so non chalant about this 5G thing, even some discussing replacements.
Is this was rebirth was for, which was only 3 years ago, this Replacement business undermines Rebirth




Hell no, do not want, those Batman characters should stay where they belong, they got nothing to do with the Canary mantle.
Neither Black Canar/Dinah nor Green Arrow/Oliver Queen should be replaced, they just got deaged in new 52, and were just starting to build new lives. They are among characters who got some of the biggest reboots in new 52. It would be a waste to replace characters that still got so much potential to tell new stories.

You will be making a bigger mistake than New 52, DC!!.

Because there's actually people who are interested in the 5g thing? I know, must be blasphemy for some classic fans, but not everything revolves around the classic fan perspective.

[Frostbite883]

Not this again.

The bulk of the resistance to 5G has nothing to do with diversification. Look over this thread: every time the notion that white guys don't like that their heroes are being replaced by minority groups comes up, it's not brought up by those white guys who don't want their heroes replaced; it's brought up as accusations against those white guys. Then we go a few pages where the white guys have to defend themselves against baseless accusations of bigotry. Can we just skip that this time and get back to the actual arguments that have been made by 5G's critics?

Uh, no.

Basically it might be the case that you're using those arguments as a smoke screen just to hide your actual feelings on those 5G characters. Like others have done before when it comes to any minority heroes replacing white heroes long BEFORE the whole 5G thing became a thing -- an example of this would be the big blow up over Luke Fox being Batman..even though it was announce that Luke wasn't going be, but people want to pretend otherwise just to essentially throw a fit over nothing..just to do that. Among another certain reason. That can't be ignored or downplayed no matter how you try to spin it.

So, yeah, expect others (like skyvolt) not taking you seriously or to shut up about questioning people's motives on why they hate the 5G heroes.

[SiegePerilous02]

Uh, no.

Basically it might be the case that you're using those arguments as a smoke screen just to hide your actual feelings on those 5G characters. Like others have done before when it comes to any minority heroes replacing white heroes long BEFORE the whole 5G thing became a thing -- an example of this would be the big blow up over Luke Fox being Batman..even though it was announce that Luke wasn't going be, but people want to pretend otherwise just to essentially throw a fit over nothing..just to do that. Among another certain reason. That can't be ignored or downplayed no matter how you try to spin it.

So, yeah, expect others (like skyvolt) not taking you seriously or to shut up about questioning people's motives on why they hate the 5G heroes.

Kyle Rayner, who was originally conceived as just being white I believe, received a LOT of backlash from Hal Jordan fans when he was invented. And a lot of Wally West fans despise Barry. Spider-Man fans didn't care for the revelation that Peter was a clone and his equally white double Ben Reilly was replacing him, etc.

There are doubtless quite a few assholes out there that specifically do not like minorities replacing white heroes, but I think most comic fans in general just do not like to lose their favorites period and don't care one way or the other who is doing the replacing. We didn't hear about it back in the Golden Age because all those properties were dead anyway, and comic readers back then just grew up and stopped giving a **** about comics (plus no internet and social media to take to even if they did). So I don't think we have reason to believe that Dataweaver is "hiding their actual feelings." The idiots who post about how they don't want to see anyone non-white in their comics don't generally post in places like this, and their posts would rightfully be deleted if they did.

Plus, why should minority heroes get hand me down names? Black Panther and Storm don't have to put up with that ****.

[Frontier]

But she's also likely headlining the JSA book and becoming the first costumed hero in DC continuity. I'm also thinking it's possible that the reason she retires in 5G is because she's about to become DC's Nick Fury/Maria Hill/Steve Rogers during the Heroic age as the director of the counter terrorism organization being put together to fight Leviathan. I can't be the only one who has noticed that she's the only character outside Superman who has had a Leviathan tie-in (she'll be having at least two soon). And Bendis said that this counter group would have a "Wolverine" in the sense that it will be a popular character who you wouldn't expect to see doing the job. Diana working as the director for this group seems to fit the bill for now.

In terms of exposure, I doubt the big three will be short ultimately. Didio also said that the stories in 1G and 2G apparently haven't been told yet, so be it through Black Label, the pop-up minis they love doing, or getting fleshed out in the JSA book, Clark, Bruce, and Diana seem to be covered even if the main line is refocused.

I don't think a team book is going to satisfy the fans who want to read Diana's solo adventures, on-top of the fact that the book is also going to have the JSA so there's going to be a lot to juggle there. Her being the first Superhero is cool, but I'm not sure if that is going to make much headway in terms of promoting the character.

Diana would definitely be an unexpected fit for that kind of group, if only because I don't see her fitting well in that position compared to, like, Bruce. If she's retired for anything it's probably ruling Themyscira, at least that would be the most believable from a character standpoint.

[Superlad93]

she's retired for anything it's probably ruling Themyscira, at least that would be the most believable from a character standpoint.

I'd say that's ironic because Wonder Woman retiring from helping the larger world so she can rule over highly capable amazons in paradise sounds even less like Diana. At least if she becomes the counter to Leviathan and maybe even tries to keep her organization honest from the inside she's still helping people.