DC 5G: the Replacements

[Lee]

Well, to no one’s surprise, I’m sure, it looks like the timeline is coming apart and 5G may get a big change in direction:

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2020/02...ges-dc-comics/

https://comicbook.com/dc/2020/02/25/...ter-dan-didio/

Sounds like it's being reformatted so Generation 1 is still the 1940s to mid 1950s, but Generation 2 starts "XX years ago", rather than picking up immediately after Generation 1.

That's a lot more sustainable than suddenly making the Justice League a group of 80 year olds, though it does undermine the core gimmick of the whole thing. Ultimately, it sounds like they're shifting to something that can work in the long-run, rather than something that will have to be undone again two years from now, causing even more continuity headaches.

I wonder if Generation 5 will still be "the present" or if they'll reformat it to be "XX years from now".

[Shamrock Holmes]

Sounds like it's being reformatted so Generation 1 is still the 1940s to mid 1950s, but Generation 2 starts "XX years ago", rather than picking up immediately after Generation 1.

Makes sense, this was after all, essentially the status quo for nearly twenty years. Presumably, the anchor point of G2 will still be the public debut of Superman.

That's a lot more sustainable than suddenly making the Justice League a group of 80 year olds, though it does undermine the core gimmick of the whole thing. Ultimately, it sounds like they're shifting to something that can work in the long-run, rather than something that will have to be undone again two years from now, causing even more continuity headaches.

*Nods* There's more than enough material for a 30ish "Generations 2 to 4", putting Clark in his early to mid fifties at the meaning of the new era, which -- perhaps coincidentally, perhaps not -- is about the same age as the Young Justice version would be during his Jon's preteen and teen years. It's also similar to the age he was in both iconic "older Clark" Elseworlds -- Dark Knight Returns and Kingdom Come -- which is even less likely to be coincidental. It's also worth noting that Bruce was a similar age when he retired (in 2019 in DCAU), during the epilogue for Rebirth, Part 1. The relative popularity of the JSA proves that the 20-35 age group isn't the only option, although I fully expect them to push any characters in that range with any degree of popularity.

I wonder if Generation 5 will still be "the present" or if they'll reformat it to be "XX years from now".

I think that we can assume that the main era of the comics going forward will be "the present" as it has always been, the "XX years from now" role will more than likely remain the spot for Batman Beyond (G6?), at least until the next crisis event.

[Lee]

*Nods* There's more than enough material for a 30ish "Generations 2 to 4", putting Clark in his early to mid fifties at the meaning of the new era

What's everyone's thoughts on this?

If the idea is to bring all of DC history into continuity, but without make Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent into old men, what would be an ideal timeframe?

Flash: Year One recently established that Wally got his powers 1 year after Barry. At that time, Wallace (current Kid Flash) was an infant, perhaps 1 year old. Wallace was said to be 14 in Deathstroke a couple of years ago. So according to Flash: Year One, Barry would have become Flash around 14 years ago, give or take.

On the Batman side of things, Damian Wayne is 13 years old. So unless they keep the artificial ageing angle introduced in New 52 (surely they'd want rid of that) then Bruce would have already had a romance with Talia slightly before the formation of the Justice League.

Would it be okay to rearrange continuity like this?

Then there's Jon Kent, whose very existence requires him to be retroactively inserted into continuity. Superman Reborn had him born after the Death & Return of Superman. Is it okay for Death of Superman to have happened 10+ years ago? Has Kyle Rayner been a Green Lantern for 10+ years? Does it have to synch up with 1992 DC continuity, making Tim Drake 23/24 years old?

Between all the partial reboots and retroactively inserted kids, it's all become a Gordian knot. I wish Jim Lee and co the best of luck trying to untangle it.

[sifighter]

I imagine they’d just be in their mid to late 50’s or if they really wanna push it early 60’s which is perfectly acceptable age to still be heroes, the JSA themselves prove they can be older heroes and even earth 2 continuity showed aged Batman and Superman who were semi-retired but showed up to be heroes when needed but could still very much fight. Or look at the very successful Dark Knight Returns which again has the characters older but still fighting. If we want this timeline to work they don’t need to be in a retirement home, they just need to be slightly older. Also, maybe just suggest that the kids were born later in life, it’s not as if people in 30’s or 40’s can’t have kids.

Batman can work like this. Bruce: early 60’s, Dick early 30’s, Jason late 20’s, Tim early 20’s, Damian Mid to late teen’s

[Badou]

A 30 year age gap between Bruce and Dick is massive. I can't see that working. If Bruce is in his 60s Dick would at least be in his mid to late 40s and maybe even pushing 50 depending how deep Bruce is into his 60s. Traditionally they are around 10-15 years apart at most from what I've seen in any comic or media.

[Shamrock Holmes]

I'd probably go for Bruce in his early to mid 50s (~46 @ Infinite Crisis), with Dick c. late 30s to early 40s (~30 @ IC), Jason late 20s (~22 @ IC), Tim mid to late 20s (~21 @ IC), Damian teen (preteen @ IC).

[Flash Gordon]

Setting concrete dates for this stuff and trying to give Bruce Wayne an actual age has got to be my least favourite thing about mainstream American comics.

[Midnight_v]

Setting concrete dates for this stuff and trying to give Bruce Wayne an actual age has got to be my least favourite thing about mainstream American comics.

I would actually just wish at this point that he used a dammed Lazarus pit. Or someone tossed him in one when he died. I mean hell he's already got Damian from Ras'aghul's machinations AND Red Hood crawled out of one.

It would just solve so much. I mean even if he didn't know it happened to him at first.

[bearman]

I believe Kingdom Come Bruce declares he is only 14 years older than Dick. That always seemed “right” to me...

[Factor]

I think Batman, Superman and the rest of the main Leaguers should be between 35-40 by now. Batman and Superman being the oldest (Diana and Martian Manhunter could be exceptions). Oh, Ollie should be a little older than Bruce.
- Dick's generation should be 25-30 (Babs included).
- Jason should be 25 at most and Tim and 20 or 21.
- Damian should be anywhere from 10 to 15. Jon a little younger (his future self could join the Legion, but not the present day one).

5G would happen 10 or 15 years in the future. Heck, Legion's Jon could be the 5G version.

[Ascended]

Sounds like it's being reformatted so Generation 1 is still the 1940s to mid 1950s, but Generation 2 starts "XX years ago", rather than picking up immediately after Generation 1.

That's a lot more sustainable than suddenly making the Justice League a group of 80 year olds, though it does undermine the core gimmick of the whole thing. Ultimately, it sounds like they're shifting to something that can work in the long-run, rather than something that will have to be undone again two years from now, causing even more continuity headaches.

I wonder if Generation 5 will still be "the present" or if they'll reformat it to be "XX years from now".

Not surprising if plans are changing now. Hell, it wouldn't be surprising if this kind of stuff was still in flux before Didio left. DC's editorial isn't exactly know for their consistency.

But since they're going through with 5G, I'm not sure what they actually gain by shifting from established dates (or at least decades) to "X years ago." That kind of sliding timescale is how they usually do things (Leaguers are typically active for "ten/fifteen-ish" years whether it's 2009 or 2019) and it's worked well enough, but this whole thing is supposed to be about using a semblance of real world publishing history. That was the whole point wasn't it? That DC would start using their long history to their advantage, and get away from the idea that the DCU has to reflect the real world.

If they're not going to do that, if they're just gonna keep the sliding timescale, what's the gods damn point? If a book featuring the real Batman or Superman is going to be set in the past because of 5G, then it makes little damn difference if that book is set specifically in 1980 or "XX years ago" because it'll still be the past either way.

[Ascended]

What's everyone's thoughts on this?

Between all the partial reboots and retroactively inserted kids, it's all become a Gordian knot. I wish Jim Lee and co the best of luck trying to untangle it.

Wallace looked more like 2-3 to me. He was too big to be 1, I think. But that doesn't shave off very many years from Barry's career either so it's kinda moot.

Damian and Jon really do throw wrenches into things. If you want the League to remain on the younger side anyway. Jon especially. Damian could be the result of Bruce's first interactions with Talia, when he's still new to the cowl, but Clark needs to have had years in the cape before Jon comes along.

But I'm perfectly fine with DC mixing things up to make stuff fit together. And like I said above, keeping everything except the new legacies set in the past means you have some wiggle room; when you do that Kyle Rayner doesn't *have* to be in his mid-20's and a ten year Lantern veteran at the same time; he can be a ten year vet who started in his mid 20's and is now mid-30's. If books are set in different generations then Kyle can be mid 20's in a 4G title and mid 30's in a 5G title. Dick Grayson can be Robin in a 2G book, Nightwing in a G3, etc.

I'm not interested in 5G, but if DC gave us books set in different eras I wouldn't complain. Imagine if all the Superman fans who hate the marriage and family had a book set earlier in Clark's career, before he and Lois got together? And if another book had the current Superdad, then fans who like that wouldn't be put out. The idea of the big timeline has potential. I don't know if DC will capitalize on that potential or not, and I've become cynical enough to doubt it, but conceptually it could be pretty awesome.

[sifighter]

I just think it will be fine if the characters are like their earth 2 counterparts in the 70's, semi-retired with younger heroes filling in for them while occasionally they would come into help when the need arise.

Robin and Helena replaced an older Bruce on the JSA
Powergirl replaced Superman
Star-spangled kid/Skyman(though that was later) replaced Starman
and so on and so forth.

I think this could all work if it all that happened is that Clark went to work with the United Planets and had Jon fill in for him, Bruce retired with Selena so Luke gets to go, and so on. Basically give the new players their space but if they other heroes are needed or if the writer just want to reassure readers they will show up. Also I want to say, I would definitely be okay with Generations set books, there is a lot of fun that could be had there.

[dietrich]

It's weird, my understand was that the point of the timeline they were establashing was so that we could get titles from each generation. Like the rumored JSA & Wonder Woman book in gen 1. But I haven't seen bleeding cool or any other rumor site make mention of that.

That would be the best way to maximise success and my hope as well. I doubt many fans would be opposed to the Heroes they've grown used to getting replacements if they had a option to still had an option to continue reading their favourites.

Terry as Batman was easy to accept because we still had/have Bruce.

[Digifiend]

I think you can make a connection to when books became less Rebirth-y even as runs that started on Rebirth kept going...but to be fair, there's only, like, King on Batman that really kept on going. Pretty much everyone else left their titles.

And Williamson on Flash.

Miles was in animation on the small-screen before Into the Spider-Verse, ditto Kamala and JaneThor before their MCU debuts, although never really as headliners unless you think of Kamala as the headliner for Marvel Rising.

Well, Kamala and Squirrel Girl were the first Rising characters introduced. So yeah, I'd say those two are the headliners there.

Batmanick Grayson
RedRobin: Jason Todd
ORACLE: Tim Drake
Superman: Conner Kent
G.L. :Kyle Rayne
Flash: Wally West
Wonder Woman : Troya/Donna Troy
Green Arrow: N/A
JLA: Would be the Titans
Aquaman: Merra, The Aqua woman

Green Arrow could be Emiko Queen, the current Red Arrow.

If someone other than Babs was to be Oracle, Tim does make sense. His tech knowledge is so good it was years before he even interacted with her.