DC 5G: the Replacements

[Buried Alien]

This is where I'm at.

I would LOVE a pull list that included a JSA set in the 40's/50's, Superman(Clark) Batman (Bruce) and WW (Diana) set in the recent past, and
a few new books set in the near future (with new iterations). But a line built 100% on newbies in the iconic roles could be pretty problematic.

If you walk the current readership and the idea fails, what are you left with? Pretty risky proposition.

Yep. Don't do something this risky without an escape plan. They're not going to win any points for bravery for doing so, only derision for foolishness.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Frontier]

This is where I'm at.

I would LOVE a pull list that included a JSA set in the 40's/50's, Superman(Clark) Batman (Bruce) and WW (Diana) set in the recent past, and
a few new books set in the near future (with new iterations). But a line built 100% on newbies in the iconic roles could be pretty problematic.

If you walk the current readership and the idea fails, what are you left with? Pretty risky proposition.

I just question whether the line would be able to support past, present, and future storylines, especially when the key will be a level of cohesiveness that will be difficult to maintain.

Will the 5G Batman stuff be more relevant or pertinent then the 4GBatman stuff? Or whatever present-day Batman is? Should we just treat it as an Elseworld's comic at this point?

I'm just not sure how this will all work.

[vasir12]

Not enough books.

Yep, I just can't see DC running that many lines and continuities. Too much money and takes away from focus. I can predict graphic novels from some periods but that might be it.

[Frontier]

Yep, I just can't see DC running that many lines and continuities. Too much money and takes away from focus. I can predict graphic novels from some periods but that might be it.

Especially when they said they were cutting their line down to the core titles.

[scary harpy]

I also have to laugh about all the people thinking this is permanent or that "it will fail!" as if this wasn't anything other than a temporary thing for a story. The old guard will come back because they ALWAYS come back, and DC gets those boosted sales numbers both with the comic they get replaced in and the one they come back in.

Let's not be so sure. I am buying less comics than ever in my life. I suspect I will be buying less in the future.

I still love the characters...but I don't love the stories anymore.

Your comics will be back to normal in six months to a year, tops.

That's not reassuring.

I reiterate: I'm buying very few comics because I dislike the modern stories.

I look forward to the next Batman cartoon...and that's about I'm looking forward to.

[SiegePerilous02]

You know that. I know that. TRUE comic book fans know that.

Who are these "true fans" you speak of? Are they different from just normal fans?

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

What gives good cause that this will not end in a sales boost but decline is that Bendis hasn’t sold that great & Batman has been in decline + DC best selling books are slightly out of continuity in Doomsday Clock or completely out of continuity in Black Label books + DCeased.

[kingaliencracker]

So we're going to totally forget they already did this before, right?

Attachment 88063

I also have to laugh about all the people thinking this is permanent or that "it will fail!" as if this wasn't anything other than a temporary thing for a story. The old guard will come back because they ALWAYS come back, and DC gets those boosted sales numbers both with the comic they get replaced in and the one they come back in. Your comics will be back to normal in six months to a year, tops.

...except the old guard doesn't always come back. If we (I'm lumping myself in that group) did, then we wouldn't see the shutting down of LCSs across the board, and the industry wouldn't need to resort to stunts like "5G" to keep afloat. The fact is it's been diminishing returns for years and years. Sure, certain gimmicks such as New 52 can generate a bit of a temporary buzz. But how long did that last before the books started dipping back and below their pre-N52 numbers?

I've been one of the most super patient fans you'll come by. But my limit will be replacing Clark as Superman on any kind of long-term basis.

[Lee Stone]

I just question whether the line would be able to support past, present, and future storylines, especially when the key will be a level of cohesiveness that will be difficult to maintain.

Will the 5G Batman stuff be more relevant or pertinent then the 4GBatman stuff? Or whatever present-day Batman is? Should we just treat it as an Elseworld's comic at this point?

I'm just not sure how this will all work.

Which generation was more important in the Dark Horse Star Wars comics?

[Lee Stone]

...except the old guard doesn't always come back. If we (I'm lumping myself in that group) did, then we wouldn't see the shutting down of LCSs across the board, and the industry wouldn't need to resort to stunts like "5G" to keep afloat. The fact is it's been diminishing returns for years and years. Sure, certain gimmicks such as New 52 can generate a bit of a temporary buzz. But how long did that last before the books started dipping back and below their pre-N52 numbers?

I've been one of the most super patient fans you'll come by. But my limit will be replacing Clark as Superman on any kind of long-term basis.

And gimmicks like New52, with its far-reaching promoting, can have a long-lasting negative effect on the industry when those new readers brought in discover it was nothing but a fleeting phase.

[kingaliencracker]

And gimmicks like New52, with its far-reaching promoting, can have a long-lasting negative effect on the industry when those new readers brought in discover it was nothing but a fleeting phase.

And that's the diminishing returns. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip.

I look at a book like Immortal Hulk and wonder why the industry can't use that as a template or example of what it could be. Here's a title that took the core concept of Hulk and without replacing him was able to put a new spin on the character that is now outselling Batman without even really trying.

When the industry allows things to happen naturally, the fans will not only support it but we'll advocate for it.

[Lee Stone]

And that's the diminishing returns. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip.

I look at a book like Immortal Hulk and wonder why the industry can't use that as a template or example of what it could be. Here's a title that took the core concept of Hulk and without replacing him was able to put a new spin on the character that is now outselling Batman without even really trying.

When the industry allows things to happen naturally, the fans will not only support it but we'll advocate for it.

We've seen similar before...

Morrison's Animal-Man and Doom Patrol
Peter David's Hulk and X-Factor
Moore's Swamp Thing

Most writers just aren't given the freedom required to do such things or get shot down for trying.

[Noodle]

...except the old guard doesn't always come back. If we (I'm lumping myself in that group) did, then we wouldn't see the shutting down of LCSs across the board, and the industry wouldn't need to resort to stunts like "5G" to keep afloat. The fact is it's been diminishing returns for years and years. Sure, certain gimmicks such as New 52 can generate a bit of a temporary buzz. But how long did that last before the books started dipping back and below their pre-N52 numbers?

I've been one of the most super patient fans you'll come by. But my limit will be replacing Clark as Superman on any kind of long-term basis.

I meant old guard in regards to the characters not the fans.

If the Internet was a thing in the late 50s there would have never been a Hal Jordan or Barry Allen because people would just scream they are "replacing" Alan and Jay and shunting them off to another earth to diminish them.

Again, this is a story. One that may or may not even happen, by a creative team we don't even know yet, around a plot we don't even know, yet everyone is talking like this is the death of DC. Everyone's pre-decided to hate it based on next to no information. When you choose to hate it right out the gate obviously you're never going to even give it a chance to be good.

[Digifiend]

Isn't Luke kind of 4th gen though? He feels like it, even if not in the same age group.

Even if this is a massive status quo change I don't see how they don't end up rolling it back.

It's not like Marvel kept their legacy heroes in their main identities beyond Miles Morales.

And Kamala Khan and Carol Danvers. Though Carol took over a deceased hero's name, and Kamala then took her previous one, so both mantles were vacant and aren't shared (at least not in Marvel Comics).

And part of the reason why Bendis left Marvel to begin with was because the attempt failed and Marvel quickly double backed on it, much to his frustration. I read he was really upset when Marvel changed the title of "Spider-Man" to "Miles Morales: Spider-Man".

Like I said, it is what it is. DC owns these characters. I can be mad or frustrated, but I'll find something else to move on to.

That change happened after he left the book though. Though I can imagine he won't like that the trades aren't called Spider-Man at all (they're just called Miles Morales).

[Ascended]

So, I haven't been following this announcement too closely. But regarding the idea of breaking the line apart and publishing multiple books from each generation......

I have no idea if this is what DC is thinking, and I'm not saying it's a good idea but.....that might not be the worst thing. Functionally, this is just the return of the multiverse. That's what it could end up looking like. I think I can even see the business sense in trying it.

Each generation is, roughly, an era of DC history right? Golden, Silver Age, etc. And all those versions exist on a single timeline, but have different histories. Which means one generation's continuity won't impact another's. If DC runs books set in an approximation of those eras, then everyone gets a shot at what they want. Fans of the rough and tumble Superman from the Golden Age can get that guy, post-Crisis fans can get the Superdad, pre-Crisis fans can get the strange visitor from a distant planet. And new fans get a new Superman, without tons of baggage and history behind him. Now DC gets multiple attempts to get your money by running multiple versions. And different generations means you don't have to read the other versions if you don't want to. More options, easier to follow (unless you try reading them all maybe).

And I'd be willing to bet DC believes this might be how they break into new demographics too. Didio is big on getting new readers, but it's hard to do that in the direct market. But some of their imprints are doing really well in trade and digital markets so DC might be hoping to sneak more of their line through those avenues, slowly oozing their sales out of the LCS and Diamond deal.

I just question whether the line would be able to support past, present, and future storylines, especially when the key will be a level of cohesiveness that will be difficult to maintain.

But they wouldn't be forced into maintaining cohesiveness across the whole line. At least not any more than they already are. DC publishes what, around 50 books a month, and 90% of them share a continuity. But if you've got five different generations, each with their own continuity, then you normally only have to keep track of 10 books. Sounds easier to me. If a crossover between generations hits (and they will) you'll have to brush up on their continuity, but that's what they do already so it's not like it's extra work.

Will the 5G Batman stuff be more relevant or pertinent then the 4GBatman stuff? Or whatever present-day Batman is? Should we just treat it as an Elseworld's comic at this point?

I'm not sure that will (theoretically) matter as much anymore. But odds are the generation with the most recognizable Batman and Superman will be the most important generation.

I'm just not sure how this will all work.

I doubt even DC is sure how it'll all work.

Yep, I just can't see DC running that many lines and continuities. Too much money and takes away from focus. I can predict graphic novels from some periods but that might be it.

I dunno, they've been real big on imprints lately. Seems like for a while there every other week had DC announcing a new one. And it seems like it's working out okay, or is at least something the company is comfortable with and believes in. So what happens when they turn their main line into a series of five independent but connected imprints? Maybe people will just read the books they like?

We've seen similar before...

Most writers just aren't given the freedom required to do such things or get shot down for trying.

And this would give those creators a little more freedom. Not total freedom or anything, but a lot more wiggle room.

Like I said, this is (theoretically) just the return of the multiverse. We always say we want that, we always say the best books are the ones that aren't reigned in by continuity and get to be creative. Well, this is the multiverse but with the added bonus of being "one timeline" so DC can pretend it's all important. Crossovers aren't hard to do since dimensional travel has been fairly common since the Silver Age, so most generations have access (and it's easy enough to introduce it to G1). Creators will have more room to experiment since classic versions will be available in other generations.

Completists will hate it but it might improve DC's odds of finding new fans while keeping old ones semi-comfortable. It'd be a big change to how things have been done, but.....this industry needs big changes. Maybe not this one, but.....time will tell.