DC 5G: the Replacements

[Frontier]

Maybe not with the JAS itself but other teams are an option. Jesse was in the Titans, Holt was in Checkmate and Karen has been a solo character as well.

I get that, but I would prefer they be with the JSA.

It would depend on sales, stories, and overall reception, I bet. I would hope that DC would see how Marvel did this and make some creative differences there. We already know DC is trying to inject fresher characters but that's hard in this medium without legacy. If they keep these new characters going forward while also having the old ones going about (probably in the past) then it MIGHT stick. A very big long shot though.

Makes you wonder how much title redundancies they allow unless they distinguish titles to certain era, like main Batman book is Luke while 'Tec is still set in Bruce's time.

[leo619]

Oh, now what Dan Didio said makes sense. During San Diego Comic Con, I asked when we would see Val Zod and he said 2020, bendis said he had plans for Val Zod, so I'm pretty sure he's going to be part of the next gen book next year. Though I'm curious if he's going to be the superman representative OR if he's just part of the new family.


With that said, it's about time DC dived in on this. Rebirth sales has been bombing hard and new blood is definitely needed to help keep them a float. ANAD Marvel was the most successful push for secondary characters in the last 20 years, and DC has been way too behind the times lately.

[vasir12]

It wont matter, if the imprint theory proves true. 5G will have a "Crisis Wall" between it and G4. So the continuities won't matter any more than pre-Crisis continuity impacted post-Crisis. Just like how Vibe could be alive in the New52 despite being dead in post-Crisis.

What I'm more concerned about (if this theory is right) is ideas seeping between generations. If Naomi is in G4 and she ends up being a big, popular character, they're going to try to introduce a version of Naomi to other generations. And that could end up providing a lot of lackluster material that won't help Naomi in the long-run.

Likewise, if these different generations are built on actual DC history, I hope you're looking forward to the Golden Age, Silver Age, and Future versions of Harley Quinn. We've already gotten a Batman 66 version of Harley, and there's no way she won't be included in other generations, even if she didn't actually exist during the history the generation is modeled on.

Meh. I don't really think the gems will have a wall between them because the events clearly lead to the next. Within all the sections there is only one Superman for example as there is only one origin point. I think it's more likely the present day gets the main focus while past events are less common.

Oh, now what Dan Didio said makes sense. During San Diego Comic Con, I asked when we would see Val Zod and he said 2020, bendis said he had plans for Val Zod, so I'm pretty sure he's going to be part of the next gen book next year. Though I'm curious if he's going to be the superman representative OR if he's just part of the new family.


With that said, it's about time DC dived in on this. Rebirth sales has been bombing hard and new blood is definitely needed to help keep them a float. ANAD Marvel was the most successful push for secondary characters in the last 20 years, and DC has been way too behind the times lately.

Of the reports are to be believed, Jon is going to be Superman. I agree with you that despite what people say and ANAD, it pumped out a lot of good stories and showed some cool characters that are still around

[leo619]

Meh. I don't really think the gems will have a wall between them because the events clearly lead to the next. Within all the sections there is only one Superman for example as there is only one origin point. I think it's more likely the present day gets the main focus while past events are less common.



Of the reports are to be believed, Jon is going to be Superman. I agree with you that despite what people say and ANAD, it pumped out a lot of good stories and showed some cool characters that are still around

Hmm, that's interesting. in that case I do wonder where Val Zod is going to fit in that area. They never confirmed his age but currently he's old enough to date Power Girl. Unless they're planning on doing some rebooting and de aging him.

[Frontier]

Of the reports are to be believed, Jon is going to be Superman. I agree with you that despite what people say and ANAD, it pumped out a lot of good stories and showed some cool characters that are still around

So far it seems to be leaning towards:

Luke Fox - Batman

Jon Kent - Superman

Jackson Hyde - Aquaman

I'm curious to see how much legs the 5G initiative has, especially depending on whether they are wholesale replacing the main heroes or will be published alongside the main ones in their own stories. Things aren't too clear on that front.

[Robanker]

If there's only one JSA book set in the past then I think the likelihood we'll see the legacies associated with the team in the future less likely, but I could be wrong.

Basically this. We live in the era of DC not allowing Ivy to flourish because that would "dilute sales" from Harley. The JSA was always going to be one book when they brought them back. It wasn't always like that but I see no reason to think they will do otherwise.

I really enjoy the core team, but half of my favorites were legacies. Watching both generations work together was what made the team my favorite. Now it just feels like they're doing an Earth 2 book but sandwiching it in the timeline. Cool, I guess.

Michael Holt is going to be fine. He has his own book he's headlining. The others? Nothing in print to speak of and that sucks.

[skyvolt2000]

I've said this before but I still don't understand at all the need to "explain" why these characters have been active for so long. It's a fictional timeline, why does anyone need logical explanation for why the main DC characters didn't get older or never settled down or never stayed dead or always came back whenever they were replaced. Morrison's infamous quote about adults wanting comic books to make logical sense is still as relevant as ever.

Fans are not asking for that. At least not the ones I talk to.

I mean if folks are NOT asking that with The Simpsons or PBS's Arthur-why ask here. Interesting fact about Arthur is the last episode would be the one when they get ready to go to the fourth grade. That aired in season 6. It's on season 25.

It would depend on sales, stories, and overall reception, I bet. I would hope that DC would see how Marvel did this and make some creative differences there. We already know DC is trying to inject fresher characters but that's hard in this medium without legacy. If they keep these new characters going forward while also having the old ones going about (probably in the past) then it MIGHT stick. A very big long shot though.

Well it's hard to FULLY judge that. Like Johnny said earlier-MATURE fans have to show up.

What you saw with Marvel was folks going NUTS over who was on the cover and did NOT care about the story.
So yeah a creator will call someone racist or bigoted if the only reason you take issue with the project is because of WHO is on the cover.

There were some good stories and guys like Flint of the Inhumans got development. ANd yes it's important for some of these guys to stick around.

[skyvolt2000]

Basically this. We live in the era of DC not allowing Ivy to flourish because that would "dilute sales" from Harley. The JSA was always going to be one book when they brought them back. It wasn't always like that but I see no reason to think they will do otherwise.

I really enjoy the core team, but half of my favorites were legacies. Watching both generations work together was what made the team my favorite. Now it just feels like they're doing an Earth 2 book but sandwiching it in the timeline. Cool, I guess.

But she doesn't. Dc has to get away from that thinking.

I mean does Dc NOT see the Spider-Man franchise? What has Miles Morales taken away from Peter Parker (the main one not the Ultimate Universe one-who might not be dead)?

Miles has starred in 5 books this year and in 4 right now. His book constantly needs a new printing every issue. How has he hurt Peter?

[Tzigone]

Wow, Morrison sounds like an absolute jerk. Fiction generally needs internal consistency and rules if aimed at adults - and comics are aimed at adults (or at least teens) these days. If you want those "ask no questions" fans, then write comics aimed at younger kids. I will accept far more ridiculousness from silver age comics because they mostly don't take themselves seriously and are aimed at younger audience.

[SiegePerilous02]

I've said this before but I still don't understand at all the need to "explain" why these characters have been active for so long. It's a fictional timeline, why does anyone need logical explanation for why the main DC characters didn't get older or never settled down or never stayed dead or always came back whenever they were replaced. Morrison's infamous quote about adults wanting comic books to make logical sense is still as relevant as ever.

This should be printed on the back of every DC comic

Wow, Morrison sounds like an absolute jerk. Fiction generally needs internal consistency and rules if aimed at adults - and comics are aimed at adults (or at least teens) these days. If you want those "ask no questions" fans, then write comics aimed at younger kids. I will accept far more ridiculousness from silver age comics because they mostly don't take themselves seriously and are aimed at younger audience.

I think superhero comics primarily being aimed at adults (despite generally not being any more sophisticated than they were in the Silver or Bronze age) is one of the major problems of the industry. And they are adults who debate such trivial things as Superman's underwear.

I think some internal consistency is needed, but that's not entirely what Morrison is talking about here. Adults needing some sort of grounded explanation for even the highest of high fantasies is pretty ridiculous. There are comics who go into how Superman's powers work (specifically some of the psuedo science Byrne injected into things), and they aren't any better as stories than just accepting the fantastical.

Also I don't think he's being a jerk. at least not any more than we fans can be when talking about him and other creators.

[Johnny]

So yeah a creator will call someone racist or bigoted if the only reason you take issue with the project is because of WHO is on the cover.

But where is this notion coming from that people should either accept anything publishers throw at them, or just shut up if they don't like it. Some fans can indeed go over the line unfortunately, but it's an incredibly dirty tactic to accuse your fandom of bigotry for simply voicing displeasure when their favorites are being replaced with characters who they could perceive have never earned those mantles. I think context matters, in the case of Batman there's a reasonable argument to be made against why are they reportedly choosing Luke Fox over Dick Grayson. Some people would not want to buy a Batman comic without Bruce on the cover and that's just the way it is, especially if Bruce's replacement is a character who was never seen as a successor of his. Controversies like that aren't just the fault of the fans, the discontent also comes from the general lack of better communication between fans and creators.

[SiegePerilous02]

But where is this notion coming from that people should either accept anything publishers throws at them, or just shut up if they don't like it. Some fans can indeed go over the line unfortunately, but it's an incredibly dirty tactic to accuse your fandom of bigotry for simply not wanting their favorites to be replaced. Some people would not want to buy a Batman comic without Bruce on the cover and that's just the way it is. Controversies like that aren't just the fault of the fans, the discontent comes from lack of better communication between fans and creators in general.

Preach.

My lack of interest in Luke Fox as Batman has nothing to do with Luke being black. I wouldn't be any more interested if it was Tim or Jason or some random new white guy who came out of the ether. Dick is the ONLY character I'd like to see as Batman II, and even then I'm still not interested in a long term replacement for Bruce. Bruce is Batman is Bruce.

Nobody wants to see their favorites replaced. If the character on the cover is not the one they signed on for, they aren't gonna buy it. I'd likely be more in favor of Nubia becoming the new Wonder Woman over whoever they are actually going to go with, but I'm still not likely to buy a WW comic that doesn't feature the actual character I want to read about when I buy a comic with her name as the title.

[Dataweaver]

Preach.

My lack of interest in Luke Fox as Batman has nothing to do with Luke being black. I wouldn't be any more interested if it was Tim or Jason or some random new white guy who came out of the ether. Dick is the ONLY character I'd like to see as Batman II, and even then I'm still not interested in a long term replacement for Bruce. Bruce is Batman is Bruce.

Nobody wants to see their favorites replaced. If the character on the cover is not the one they signed on for, they aren't gonna buy it. I'd likely be more in favor of Nubia becoming the new Wonder Woman over whoever they are actually going to go with, but I'm still not likely to buy a WW comic that doesn't feature the actual character I want to read about when I buy a comic with her name as the title.

For instance: Terry McGuiness.

[Johnny]

Preach.

My lack of interest in Luke Fox as Batman has nothing to do with Luke being black. I wouldn't be any more interested if it was Tim or Jason or some random new white guy who came out of the ether. Dick is the ONLY character I'd like to see as Batman II, and even then I'm still not interested in a long term replacement for Bruce. Bruce is Batman is Bruce.

Nobody wants to see their favorites replaced. If the character on the cover is not the one they signed on for, they aren't gonna buy it. I'd likely be more in favor of Nubia becoming the new Wonder Woman over whoever they are actually going to go with, but I'm still not likely to buy a WW comic that doesn't feature the actual character I want to read about when I buy a comic with her name as the title.

[Johnny]

For instance: Terry McGuiness.

If Terry was introduced in the main comic continuity and DC decided to retire Bruce and turn him into an old man specifically to accommodate Terry, then I'm pretty sure he would've become quite the controversial character. But if it was still an alternate future-type story that did not affect the current events like that cartoon was, then people wouldn't have a problem with Terry since Bruce would've still been around as Batman. They would've had options. The difference between examples like Batman Beyond and what we're seeing here is what DC reportedly plans to do is leave fans with no other options. If we get Atlantiades as the new Wonder Woman, then she will be the only WW fans would see everywhere with no Diana around. Same with replacing Arthur Curry with Jackson Hyde or Clark with Jon. That's what Marvel did with ANAD. When you make a line-wide initiative to replace all of your core characters, you leave the fans of these characters with the perception that these new stories are not for them. Naturally they can choose to give them a chance and make up their own mind, but the complaints are warranted because you simply don't give them other choices.