DC 5G: the Replacements

[SecretWarrior]

None of the younger heroes have been mentioned in 5G which raises a lot of questions.

These characters are supposed to be replaced 1--2 years out. The amount of work deciding continuity, assigning new roles for main characters and side characters, developing villains, and developing content means DC should really make decisions soon, if they haven't already.

[SecretWarrior]

I just doubt DC will replace more than 2 of their big 6 with black characters. Luke is virtually a lock. Whether it's Owen or Kaldur or whomever, I bet one replacement will have the villain-for-parent trope.

[leo619]

It's hard to quantify those things. One could argue the market was also vastly different from when the New 52 first popped out and every subsequent relaunch is just asking for diminishing returns no matter the quality just as we can't exactly cite the New 52 changes as successful from an audience perspective.

Partially yes. but it's also that New 52 selling better than rebirth contrast with the classic fan mentality of the drastic changes being the fall of New 52. For example, notice how you were quick to cite that New 52 changes were not suitable in the long run, but refuse to accept the status quo is even less suitable when indicated that New 52 sales better.

Ultimately it's very common for classic fans to come into this thread and preach how this will fail due to New 52 failings, when the more "back to basic" approach done worth sales wise the New 52. But bias is a strong motivator, that's for sure.

5g definitely has the opportunity to be successful. Though with current cutting it's own foot method comics are currently having, any successful seen will almost always be temporary.

[Frontier]

Partially yes. but it's also that New 52 selling better than rebirth contrast with the classic fan mentality of the drastic changes being the fall of New 52. For example, notice how you were quick to cite that New 52 changes were not suitable in the long run, but refuse to accept the status quo is even less suitable when indicated that New 52 sales better.

Because narratively and media-wise proved indicative that they weren't...? The New 52 was more of a flash in the pan then anything else. Something "shiny" and "new" that lost it's luster soon enough.

Ultimately it's very common for classic fans to come into this thread and preach how this will fail due to New 52 failings, when the more "back to basic" approach done worth sales wise the New 52. But bias is a strong motivator, that's for sure.

New 52 was also "back to basics."

[jetengine]

Its irritating that DC may use this merely as a reboot/relaunch instead of an actual legitimate framework to dealing with their overall continuity issues.

[iron chimp]

Sales of nu52 fell off very sharply and it was back to pre nu52 sales levels pretty quickly from memory.

[leo619]

Because narratively and media-wise proved indicative that they weren't...? The New 52 was more of a flash in the pan then anything else. Something "shiny" and "new" that lost it's luster soon enough.

Except it didn't, there was very little narrative indication to prove that it wasn't suitable. We could use the same excuse you gave for Rebirth and apply it to New 52. But you're attempting to apply that logic because of what New 52 represents, while giving "misc excuses" for Rebirth crashing even faster did New 52. Due to fast sales crash of Rebirth, one can say returning back to the "status quo" lost it's luster soon enough.

New 52 was also "back to basics."

Right, because Cyborg being brought as a founding member status, introducing Superman t-shirt and jeans, having his main relationship with wonder woman, wonder woman entire history, and more were "back to basics" lol. Though when I state "back to basics." I'm using it as another term of status quo, not reverting to the beginning.

Sales of nu52 fell off very sharply and it was back to pre nu52 sales levels pretty quickly from memory.

Not really no. Sales was relatively strong until a bit after the convergence event, that's when sales slowly start to return back to New 52 sales. As indicated before, Rebirth return to pre new 52 sales happen faster than New 52. But people often don't pay attention to that because of what Rebirth represents.

[iron chimp]

Not really no. Sales was relatively strong until a bit after the convergence event, that's when sales slowly start to return back to New 52 sales. As indicated before, Rebirth return to pre new 52 sales happen faster than New 52. But people often don't pay attention to that because of what Rebirth represents.

Just having a look, comicchrons figures for 2010-2013 show that nu52 had no impact on % of market share either in terms of units or dollars.

[Sacred Knight]

The classic Maxima is going to be showing up in WW soon during Orlando's run. I suppose they could always use that opportunity to also reintroduce the younger New 52 Maxima (I believe Rebirth made them related or something when the continuities combined?) and over the next year tie her into the WW mythos and groom her to be the next Wonder Woman. She's young, she's gay, she has a tie to Supergirl, she's the last type of character anyone would expect taking over for Diana. It would fit the bill of the general mission statement.

[leo619]

Just having a look, comicchrons figures for 2010-2013 show that nu52 had no impact on % of market share either in terms of units or dollars.

That's false.


1st - New 52 started in September, 2011, not 2010. So up until then would have been pre flashpoint sales.

2nd - DC was regularly competitive with Marvel, as even up to December 2014, DC was either close, or even exceeded Marvel in terms of Units/Dollars.
https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...4/2014-12.html


3rd - The turnaround came from Star Wars, with January being the 1st issue of Star Wars selling almost a million copies. Marvel found a gold mine with releasing Star Wars series, and that helped turned the market to Marvel's favor. Funny enough, At around the same time, Marvel was establishing it's Secret Wars series, that would essentially begin it's transition to the ANAD era. So the combination Marvel Star Wars Series, and Marvel using Nu52 to establish ANAD, help put the market back in Marvel's favor.


So like I said, New 52 sales was relatively strong, ranging from exceeding Marvel to at least be in competitive range. They just did not have an answer for Star Wars.

[iron chimp]

That's false.


1st - New 52 started in September, 2011, not 2010. So up until then would have been pre flashpoint sales.

2nd - DC was regularly competitive with Marvel, as even up to December 2014, DC was either close, or even exceeded Marvel in terms of Units/Dollars.
https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...4/2014-12.html


3rd - The turnaround came from Star Wars, with January being the 1st issue of Star Wars selling almost a million copies. Marvel found a gold mine with releasing Star Wars series, and that helped turned the market to Marvel's favor. Funny enough, At around the same time, Marvel was establishing it's Secret Wars series, that would essentially begin it's transition to the ANAD era. So the combination Marvel Star Wars Series, and Marvel using Nu52 to establish ANAD, help put the market back in Marvel's favor.


So like I said, New 52 sales was relatively strong, ranging from exceeding Marvel to at least be in competitive range. They just did not have an answer for Star Wars.

if you compare pre flashpoint in 2010, the switch over in 2011, and a full year of nu52 in 2012 there is no change in the yearly market share either by dollar or units.

[leo619]

if you compare pre flashpoint in 2010, the switch over in 2011, and a full year of nu52 in 2012 there is no change in the yearly market share either by dollar or units.

I think you're looking at the wrong page, or you're being purposely obtuse. Click on Distributor By year, and you will clearly see an increase in DC market share in units from 9% between Marvel and DC in 2010, to 4% between Marvel and DC in 2011%, to less than 1% in 2012. It didn't reach pre flashpoint stage until 2015, when the Stars Wars juggernaut was release. Funny enough, even with the hype of Rebirth, in comparison to overall units, DC has been closer to Marvel in overall units during New 52 as a whole then under Rebirth.

[Frontier]

Except it didn't, there was very little narrative indication to prove that it wasn't suitable. We could use the same excuse you gave for Rebirth and apply it to New 52. But you're attempting to apply that logic because of what New 52 represents, while giving "misc excuses" for Rebirth crashing even faster did New 52. Due to fast sales crash of Rebirth, one can say returning back to the "status quo" lost it's luster soon enough.

I just think it's indisputable that a lot of the changes made by the New 52 were undone or retconned out eventually, which outside media quickly jumped on, even before Rebirth happened.

One could say this is DC caving into the demands of the "classic" mindset, but one could also say it was the publisher or the creators actually preferring the return of the things the New 52 did away with.

Right, because Cyborg being brought as a founding member status,

The concept of the Big Seven as the dominant team is "back-to-basics," although 5G will probably finally write out Cyborg's founding status with the new timeline.

introducing Superman t-shirt and jeans,

Golden Age Superman is back-to-basics, and even beyond that he was already depicted as relatively standard Superman in other books (including the first actual New 52 book, Justice League) and soon after T-shirt and jeans Supes.
having his main relationship with wonder woman,

wonder woman entire history,

Azzarello's Wonder Woman definitely did not catch on past the comic arc.

Though when I state "back to basics." I'm using it as another term of status quo, not reverting to the beginning.

Then Rebirth was as much back-to-basics as the New 52 was.

[Vampire Savior]

I always find it silly when people have these arguments about, "This reboot is more successful than THAT reboot."

These days, these line wide reboots are usually the same old thing. Big sales in the beginning, then over the course of about two years things more or less settle back to where they were before. Any new fans these reboots actually bring in are negligible and not worth having an argument about. These companies aren't likely to get many new fans until they figure out better ways to make their products more visible and accessible. Some reboot isn't going to fix that problem. For the most part, these companies are selling to the same fans they had before. Some lapsed readers return to see what the hubbub is about.

[iron chimp]

I think you're looking at the wrong page, or you're being purposely obtuse. Click on Distributor By year, and you will clearly see an increase in DC market share in units from 9% between Marvel and DC in 2010, to 4% between Marvel and DC in 2011%, to less than 1% in 2012. It didn't reach pre flashpoint stage until 2015, when the Stars Wars juggernaut was release. Funny enough, even with the hype of Rebirth, in comparison to overall units, DC has been closer to Marvel in overall units during New 52 as a whole then under Rebirth.

Im using these links.

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2010.html
https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2011.html
https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2012.html

2010 dc units 34% $ 30%
2011 dc units 36% $ 31%
2012 dv units 36% $ 32%