DC 5G: the Replacements

[Dataweaver]

I don't think that DC has any problem having more than two of the mainline heroes being black.

[kurenai24]

I don't think that DC has any problem having more than two of the mainline heroes being black.

It's not about whether DC would have a problem with it personally, it's about how other people would perceive it.

By rumor standards the only guaranteed books that we know are coming out of 5G are Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, and Aquaman. And so these "iconic" titles are being taken up by new characters, if half of them are black, then we'll hear about how one of them could have been [insert another race], or how black representation is not the only representation, or this great for them but what about us, etc.

[TheRay]

Not that that this Batman and Superman have to be particular friends.

I thought Bruce and Clarke were still Batman and Superman respectively, but their identities are being assumed for a certain length of time?

[Dataweaver]

I thought Bruce and Clarke were still Batman and Superman respectively, but their identities are being assumed for a certain length of time?

Supposedly, these replacements are intended to be permanent. Of course, nobody in the fan base that I know of actually believes that that will happen. But still, that's the attitude that they're approaching it from.

[Dataweaver]

It's not about whether DC would have a problem with it personally, it's about how other people would perceive it.

By rumor standards the only guaranteed books that we know are coming out of 5G are Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, and Aquaman. And so these "iconic" titles are being taken up by new characters, if half of them are black, then we'll hear about how one of them could have been [insert another race], or how black representation is not the only representation, or this great for them but what about us, etc.

Two points: first, the people at DC are making this decision. And I don't see them worrying about what the fans will say. Second, this is the problem with choosing your characters based on some sort of affirmative action quota system: someone is going to be left out. I don't have a problem with greater diversification of the heroes, just so long as that is merely one of several factors used in making the decision.

If you think that Luke Fox is an interesting enough character to hold the title of Batman, then go ahead. If you're choosing him just so that you can have a black Batman, that can be problematic — not because there's anything wrong with a black Batman, but because focusing first and foremost on the characters race has a tendency to cause you to not focus enough on the character's personality, background, or story potential. This in turn can lead to bad stories.

(Waiting for the accusations of bigotry to start in 3, 2, 1...)

[SecretWarrior]

Two points: first, the people at DC are making this decision. And I don't see them worrying about what the fans will say. Second, this is the problem with choosing your characters based on some sort of affirmative action quota system: someone is going to be left out. I don't have a problem with greater diversification of the heroes, just so long as that is merely one of several factors used in making the decision.

If you think that Luke Fox is an interesting enough character to hold the title of Batman, then go ahead. If you're choosing him just so that you can have a black Batman, that can be problematic — not because there's anything wrong with a black Batman, but because focusing first and foremost on the characters race has a tendency to cause you to not focus enough on the character's personality, background, or story potential. This in turn can lead to bad stories.

(Waiting for the accusations of bigotry to start in 3, 2, 1...)

There isn't anything remotely bigoted about your post, but from my perspective it doesn't seem plausible for an image conscious company seeking to look more diverse through this initiative. Their mileage on these characters will vary, as we saw with ANAD Marvel.

[kurenai24]

Two points: first, the people at DC are making this decision. And I don't see them worrying about what the fans will say. Second, this is the problem with choosing your characters based on some sort of affirmative action quota system: someone is going to be left out. I don't have a problem with greater diversification of the heroes, just so long as that is merely one of several factors used in making the decision.

If you think that Luke Fox is an interesting enough character to hold the title of Batman, then go ahead. If you're choosing him just so that you can have a black Batman, that can be problematic — not because there's anything wrong with a black Batman, but because focusing first and foremost on the characters race has a tendency to cause you to not focus enough on the character's personality, background, or story potential. This in turn can lead to bad stories.

(Waiting for the accusations of bigotry to start in 3, 2, 1...)

First nobody is gonna accuse you of bigotry, you gave a clear and concise post.

Second, I think you're right in saying that DC are the ones making the decisions first and foremost and hey, if they 100% cared about what the fans think they probably wouldn't be going ahead with this 5G thing at all, but there is no company on earth that doesn't care about their image and once this 5G thing starts it'll probably reach beyond the comic media and so their choices will be important. Should diversity be the defining reason why certain characters are picked ...no, but it might be something at the forefront of the decisions.

SecretWarrior is right in that the miliage will vary, and hey BC never said anything about diverse, they just said young so maybe you're more right than I thought.

Maybe for me it's time to not think about what these characters are gonna look like on a team aesthetically but what they may be bringing to the table under these iconic mantles that's different than what their OG's have done.

[SecretWarrior]

The younger characters point is a good one. Both DC and Marvel try to keep their characters young to appeal to kids, so that could be another reason for 5G.

[lilyrose]

It's unfortunate that the Titans generation, and their kids, has been decimated. If they hadn't been, then we could have had Lian Harper, Iris and Jai West, and Robert Long among the G5s. (I'm getting flashbacks to the Kingdom Come Titans.)

Conversely, “they got married and had kids” would be a great way to retire quite a number of superheroes. Lois and Clark already went into retirement once to raise Jonathan; what if they have another kid (Karen, maybe)? Lilyrose has already pointed out the Batman/Catwoman/Helena possibility. Arthur and Mera could be “sidelined” raising Arthur Jr. Let Barry marry Iris and raise the Tornado Twins. Hal and Carol could get married and have a kid or two, as could Ollie and Dinah. Heck, I'd even be up for Diana and Steve getting married and giving us a Primary Earth version of Lyta Trevor. Mind you, none of these kids would be old enough, even with a ten-year skip, for G5; but still…

They should do a special "couples" series. That'd be cool, feature one couple each issue or something.

[Dataweaver]

First nobody is gonna accuse you of bigotry, you gave a clear and concise post.

You never know; I've been accused of bigotry for less.

Maybe for me it's time to not think about what these characters are gonna look like on a team aesthetically but what they may be bringing to the table under these iconic mantles that's different than what their OG's have done.

Indeed. I'm curious what you come up with, starting with the ones we know: what does Jonathan bring to the role of Superman that's different than what Clark brought to it? What does Luke bring to the role of Batman that's different from Bruce? If Maxima turns out to be Diana's replacement, what does she bring to the role of Wonder Woman? etc.

[HunterX]

They should do a special "couples" series. That'd be cool, feature one couple each issue or something.

Wouldnt mind an anthology style comic series of that...

[Frostbite883]

Riri as Iron Man was a tougher choice because we barely knew her before she took the mantle...and fans rejected her pretty quickly (but seem to have accepted her more easily as Ironheart where she isn't a "threat" to Tony in the role).

Best to keep mind that Riri WASN'T going to be call Iron Man at all. Further, she wasn't planned to be a total replacement of Stark from the beginning (especially since she didn't have a proper alias or one at all..and when she DID, it was the one that she currently has and is keeping going forward).

[Waterfall]

Replacing Trinity is a hard task, I don't think they put too much thought into that field. Luke is a terrible choice, Jon has a fanbase at least so it kind of makes sense? Diana can only work if she gets replaced by one of the Wonder Girls...which doesn't seem to be the case.

I'm excited for GL and Flash though....Long overdue....Maybe Owen can make it work, he is Giorno Giovanna of the family. I don't think any Flash story can be worse than Barry's last decade of boring, unimaginative run.

[Jackalope89]

Replacing Trinity is a hard task, I don't think they put too much thought into that field. Luke is a terrible choice, Jon has a fanbase at least so it kind of makes sense? Diana can only work if she gets replaced by one of the Wonder Girls...which doesn't seem to be the case.

I'm excited for GL and Flash though....Long overdue....Maybe Owen can make it work, he is Giorno Giovanna of the family. I don't think any Flash story can be worse than Barry's last decade of boring, unimaginative run.

Except most of his fanbase (barring those that became Bendis fans in general) didn't want this age up to begin with, not to mention all of the "stuff" that came afterwards.

Wow, I censored myself pretty hard there.

[Waterfall]

Except most of his fanbase (barring those that became Bendis fans in general) didn't want this age up to begin with, not to mention all of the "stuff" that came afterwards.

Wow, I censored myself pretty hard there.

I don't care or like Jon so no comment here. I'm just saying there is at least some basis for it.