DC 5G: the Replacements

[Frontier]

a tease to Helena Wayne? if this is true, between this and Aquababy, I think it lends credence to the idea of a mass timeskip occurring. my guess is we'll see Bruce step away to raise Helena with Selina and that will be the first 5G mantle change and then we'll get a couple stories, maybe Jon gets the Sups mantle too, then the timeskip happens and we'll see the other next gen guys, as well as, a kid Aquababy and kid Helena; which would free up Bruce and Arthur (assuming he gets swapped) to return if need be.

I wonder what Helena Wayne means for Helena Bertinelli.

[Johnny]

What brings to credence to the whole the 5G thing before it was directly stated in Doomsday Clock, is the fact that a lot titles appear to leading into characters going through some short of retirement. It does look like Bruce Wayne will hang up his cowl and raise a family with Selina, as that seems like a major theme of Tom King's story, Bruce Wayne moving on from the Bat-mantle. It also make sense for Aquaman to retire from superheroing to raise his family as well.

The Flash is currently going through a whole death of the Speed Force storyline, so there's Barry Allen's potential out. I think Grant Morrison is a writing a complete story with Green Lantern, with a definitive end point with Hal Jordan's character. Whatever that will be, it will ultimately mean Jordan will be out of commission for another Green Lantern to take his place. Bendis is possibly setting up Superman as President of Earth, which could suggest Superman will have too much responsibility on his hand and lets his son do all the superheroing.

Wonder Woman's is the only one that I don't know how they are getting rid of her. To be fair I don't read or follow Wonder Woman, so I'm not the most knowledgeable person to explain. Is there any foreshadowing in the current Wonder Woman book that implies she is going to leave the mantle?

Side note, if the current solicitations are to believe, Aquaman will be having a daughter. I wont believe he will have a girl until the comics are officially out and definitively say it is a girl. DC has had made major last minute decisions before (i.e. look at Lightning Lad). With that said, if Arthur does get a girl, and Helena does end up coming to main DC timeline, I think DC can have their own female equivalent of Jon and Damien, AKA the super daughters. Admittedly, having Helena Wayne be BFF with the daughter of Superman or Wonder Woman will probably be marketable, but the Aquaman movie made a billion dollars, he's marketable. Having a replacement for the super sons could be a good direction, especially with what they've done with Jon.

This has happened, what, 5 times already? I think we all should know better at this point. No hero will ever have such thing as definitive ending, deaths or not, replacements or not, timeskip or not, especially a character like Hal Jordan who's seen it all and been through it all. By the way what happened to those BC rumors about DC doing Black Label books with the classic characters alongside 5G? BC reported that DC basically wanted to have their cake and eat it too and not lose their classics while pushing the new generation.

[lemonpeace]

This has happened, what, 5 times already? I think we all should know better at this point. No hero will ever have such thing as definitive ending, deaths or not, replacements or not, timeskip or not, especially a character like Hal Jordan who's seen it all and been through it all. By the way what happened to those BC rumors about DC doing Black Label books with the classic characters alongside 5G? BC reported that DC basically wanted to have their cake and eat it too and not lose their classics while pushing the new generation.

eh, no hero will ever have a definitive ending, so long as the leadership of mainstream comics are creatively bankrupt and insistent on golden-aged thinking. there is nothing interesting about a character who's done it all, doing it all again. it's a wonder that in this time of globalized popular culture, DC can look at manga culture and still think that recycling the same characters and premises at nauseum is the only way to operate; forcing the same thing over and over. it's that same impulse what Nightwing fans rail against when DC says he "ages" Batman? how many times have these "classic characters" gone stale before some creative comes along and finds a new angle to revitalize them? that's not a measure of how good the character is, never has been, it's a testament to the creatives behind the story. all stories have an end, you can either wrap them up in a fulfilling way or let them be abruptly ended unsatisfyingly (not a word but roll with it); I mean how many reboots do they have to go through before people realize that stories are supposed to end? they gotta let them old bones rest, the future is young.

[Johnny]

eh, no hero will ever have a definitive ending, so long as the leadership of mainstream comics are creatively bankrupt and insistent on golden-aged thinking. there is nothing interesting about a character who's done it all, doing it all again. it's a wonder that in this time of globalized popular culture, DC can look at manga culture and still think that recycling the same characters and premises at nauseum is the only way to operate; forcing the same thing over and over. it's that same impulse what Nightwing fans rail against when DC says he "ages" Batman? how many times have these "classic characters" gone stale before some creative comes along and finds a new angle to revitalize them? that's not a measure of how good the character is, never has been, it's a testament to the creatives behind the story. all stories have an end, you can either wrap them up in a fulfilling way or let them be abruptly ended unsatisfyingly (not a word but roll with it); I mean how many reboots do they have to go through before people realize that stories are supposed to end? they gotta let them old bones rest, the future is young.

You'll get no argument from me in terms of the "staleness" issue, but no publisher is stupid enough to permanently retire the characters that built their universe and certainly not characters who were done wrong in the past like Hal was. There's a reason why the replacements we hear about are expected to replace specific characters, not other current or former representatives of their mantles, since the Bruce Waynes, the Hal Jordans, the Barry Allens or the Arthur Currys, etc are the characters the DCU has revolved around the most. They can and will have the occasional replacement or death story that unfortunately almost exclusively tends to happen solely for shock value, but sooner or later the status quo will always be back. It's not just a DC or Marvel thing, Todd McFarlane killed Spawn and replaced him with a new character, and a few years later Al Simmons was back. The Walking Dead killed off Rick and instead of the series moving on with Carl as the main character, it ended the following issue.

[Mr.B]

Characters don't get stale. People get fussy.

[skyvolt2000]

This has happened, what, 5 times already? I think we all should know better at this point. No hero will ever have such thing as definitive ending, deaths or not, replacements or not, timeskip or not, especially a character like Hal Jordan who's seen it all and been through it all. By the way what happened to those BC rumors about DC doing Black Label books with the classic characters alongside 5G? BC reported that DC basically wanted to have their cake and eat it too and not lose their classics while pushing the new generation.

Tell that to all the Marvel employees who endured a certain group of so-called fans-many of whom were not supporting books in the first place.

The thing for guys like Hal-there is a LINE of folks willing to tell their stories with DC willingly hiring them while guys like Jessica, John, Wally and others get screwed over.

You wouldn't need to replace ANYONE if you fully invested in who you already have on your roster.

Hal Jordan does not have to be taken out for Jessica, John, Guy, Kyle & Simon to get stories under the green lantern banner (NOT in someone else's book). Funny they all have to be out of the way for Hal and Jo to have books. Then you wonder why sales are not as high as they should be. A lesson the X-Office is now learning.

DC wants to have its cake-let the NEW folks be under the Black Label since many of them will be unwelcomed anyway. Where sale numbers are not expected to be high and some of them can get a run longer than 6 issues.

[Johnny]

If you put the new folks under the Black Label, you instantly give fans the notion that they're "the other guys". That won't be the case if they're in the main books. And for all we know those Black Label books with the classic characters may not even be in continuity, if they do in fact plan to have books like that. Which goes to your point that there's no need to take out Hal to give others a chance to shine, which I never disagreed with, yet 5G allegedly plans to go in that direction. Since Hal is supposedly seen by DC as the most important Green Lantern, if you put the new character in his place, rather than pushing him/her alongside Hal, you're making a statement that you're apparently willing to invest in that character for the time being.

[transformers03]

This has happened, what, 5 times already? I think we all should know better at this point. No hero will ever have such thing as definitive ending, deaths or not, replacements or not, timeskip or not, especially a character like Hal Jordan who's seen it all and been through it all. By the way what happened to those BC rumors about DC doing Black Label books with the classic characters alongside 5G? BC reported that DC basically wanted to have their cake and eat it too and not lose their classics while pushing the new generation.

I don't I think I express my point clearly enough. Yes, I don't think Hal's story will ever end. That's the nature of comics, every superhero will be immortalized in stories that'll outlast us all.

But that doesn't mean that authors can't make stories with a definitive beginning, middle, and end. These endings are rarely ever permanent, and I don't think any comic book author is arrogant enough to believe they'll give the definitive end to any superhero. But that shouldn't stop them from completing their own stories.

For instance, Jason Aaron's Thor run had a beginning, middle, and end point. He was able to tell his full story with his version of the character, and he was able to end it on his own turns. Scott Snyder was able to give his Batman run a definitive end point, with an out of continuity comic Last Knight. It may not be in continuity, Last Knight was able to give Snyder and Capullo the last word on their version of Batman. If you read all of Snyder's new 52 Batman comics and then read Last Knight, it would feel like a complete story.

That's what I'm saying about Morrison's run on The Green Lantern. He will tell his own full story with the character that'll have a real end that'll most likely make Hal unavailable in the main DC continuity. Obviously it's not going to be permanent, Hal will most definitely come back at some point. Yet that shouldn't stop writers like Morrison to tell complete stories with the characters if they are given the opportunity.

[Johnny]

I don't I think I express my point clearly enough. Yes, I don't think Hal's story will ever end. That's the nature of comics, every superhero will be immortalized in stories that'll outlast us all.

But that doesn't mean that authors can't make stories with a definitive beginning, middle, and end. These endings are rarely ever permanent, and I don't think any comic book author is arrogant enough to believe they'll give the definitive end to any superhero. But that shouldn't stop them from completing their own stories.

For instance, Jason Aaron's Thor run had a beginning, middle, and end point. He was able to tell his full story with his version of the character, and he was able to end it on his own turns. Scott Snyder was able to give his Batman run a definitive end point, with an out of continuity comic Last Knight. It may not be in continuity, Last Knight was able to give Snyder and Capullo the last word on their version of Batman. If you read all of Snyder's new 52 Batman comics and then read Last Knight, it would feel like a complete story.

That's what I'm saying about Morrison's run on The Green Lantern. He will tell his own full story with the character that'll have a real end that'll most likely make Hal unavailable in the main DC continuity. Obviously it's not going to be permanent, Hal will most definitely come back at some point. Yet that shouldn't stop writers like Morrison to tell complete stories with the characters if they are given the opportunity.

I see now. Sorry if I misunderstood your comment.

[transformers03]

This may be too early to think about, but I do wonder what kind of roles the 5G Replacements will have after the originals take back their roles.

Like for example, once Bruce Wayne returns as Batman, Luke Fox could comfortable return to his Batwing persona. I am also hoping Jon will somehow revert to his kid self, and just go back to being the Superboy we all love and enjoy again.

But I was thinking about this more when I was thinking about how Cassie and Jackson could potentially take up the roles of Wonder Woman and Aquaman. If they took up their mentors roles, what codenames would they have after their mentors return. While I'm generally ok with more than one character sharing a codename (though in the case for Green Lanterns I think too many characters share that codename), past history suggest that DC wont allow all their biggest characters share a codename with another.

So, theoretically, if Jackson did become Aquaman, he couldn't just go back to being Aqualad after that, right? I guess they would have to give him a new codename and create a new Aqualad character (further burying Garth's relevance to the Aquaman franchise). The same thing with Cassie if she took up Wonder Woman's role, though that's been pretty much been proven to not be the case considering we see a black woman wearing WW's armor in the splash page in Doomsday Clock, the presumption being that the woman is Nubia.

Though if Nubia does become the new Wonder Woman temporary, what would her codename be after Diana returns? The same thing with Owen Mercer, what will he become after Barry Allen comes back? He can't be Flash with Barry or Wally, and he can't be Captain Boomerang again since his pops is still kicking.

Of course I may be overthinking everything. It is possible that they go the Shuri route from Black Panther, and their superhero names are just their normal names.

[Dataweaver]

Like Drake?

[TheRay]

so i guess it will be like the interaction Batgirl has with supergirl

I cannot find any indication that Kane and Danvers/Zor El ever met.

[Ascended]

This may be too early to think about, but I do wonder what kind of roles the 5G Replacements will have after the originals take back their roles.

Because this is DC I assume everything will just be rebooted back to normal. Maybe in one big giant Crisis Event, maybe in a bunch of separate, self-contained stories.

I'm still not convinced 5G is replacing the entire publishing line. That just seems incredibly foolhardy; the fandom isn't going to support a full overhaul like that. We didn't support DCYOU, we didn't support Marvel Now 2.0 (not at the end of the day), we're not gonna support this. Not for long. I can't fathom why DC would think it'd work this time.

[lilyrose]

What brings to credence to the whole the 5G thing before it was directly stated in Doomsday Clock, is the fact that a lot titles appear to leading into characters going through some short of retirement. It does look like Bruce Wayne will hang up his cowl and raise a family with Selina, as that seems like a major theme of Tom King's story, Bruce Wayne moving on from the Bat-mantle. It also make sense for Aquaman to retire from superheroing to raise his family as well.

The Flash is currently going through a whole death of the Speed Force storyline, so there's Barry Allen's potential out. I think Grant Morrison is a writing a complete story with Green Lantern, with a definitive end point with Hal Jordan's character. Whatever that will be, it will ultimately mean Jordan will be out of commission for another Green Lantern to take his place. Bendis is possibly setting up Superman as President of Earth, which could suggest Superman will have too much responsibility on his hand and lets his son do all the superheroing.

Wonder Woman's is the only one that I don't know how they are getting rid of her. To be fair I don't read or follow Wonder Woman, so I'm not the most knowledgeable person to explain. Is there any foreshadowing in the current Wonder Woman book that implies she is going to leave the mantle?

Side note, if the current solicitations are to believe, Aquaman will be having a daughter. I wont believe he will have a girl until the comics are officially out and definitively say it is a girl. DC has had made major last minute decisions before (i.e. look at Lightning Lad). With that said, if Arthur does get a girl, and Helena does end up coming to main DC timeline, I think DC can have their own female equivalent of Jon and Damien, AKA the super daughters. Admittedly, having Helena Wayne be BFF with the daughter of Superman or Wonder Woman will probably be marketable, but the Aquaman movie made a billion dollars, he's marketable. Having a replacement for the super sons could be a good direction, especially with what they've done with Jon.

I'd love this!

I think all that sounds plausible and like something that could really happen with this 5G situation, but I just wonder why DC would let something as big as Bruce having a kid with Selina happen in a side book. Wouldn't that need to occur in the main Batman line too?

[sifighter]

Might as well post the new 5G article from Bleedingcool in the big 5G thread, only seems fair.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2020/01...jokers-robins/