DC 5G: the Replacements

[Superlad93]

the shift in Superman from 84 to 86? Are we assuming that Lex lawyered his way out of trouble and went "legit" and Clark started to focus more on the "Clark Kent" side of his life, etc?

I suppose so. I mean, the timeline does have Lex as president around when Jon is born. And in the case of the New 52 --please keep your hopes in check-- but given the fact that 1) the motto is apparently "we're gonna try an fit in everything" and 2) Aquaman's team with his New 52 team when he was young is still here when he was young, the idea seems to be to fit in stuff were they can and how they can. So Clark's first year as Superman --again, please keep your hopes in check-- is like an amalgamation of the New 52 and the actual Golden age.

Hey! I see that smile creeping across your face and the hope welling up behind your eye. Stop that! I will not be held responsible if this isn't the case.

I'll just say that the timeline does have the New 52 armor in it, but it's in 1994 as oppose to when Superman started back in 1962. So, going off Aquaman again, it could be a situation where they just elongate the time and shuffle things a bit. Aquaman joins The Others around the time Clark hangs up being Superboy. He then has normal adventures as Aquaman and even joins the first incarnation of the JLA and then in 1994 (when Clark gets his New 52 armor) he joins the New 52 version of the Justice League. So you see what I mean? It's not *exact*. They aren't scared of splicing events. We know this because Pa Kent is said to die just by himself well after Clark is Superman. But it does try.

So, he could very well started off as Superboy without the power to fly, quit for 8 years, came back at 26 as Superman but still unable to fly, had some amalgamation of early Morrison and the Golden age for a year, then learned to fly the year he meets Batman and form the world's finest, and then formed the silver age JLA.

Or they're just gonna scrap Morrison's stuff in favor of *just* a straight up Golden age start. But chances are the good that they won't have to. The only thing that changes is that he gets his Kryptonian armor not much later and only wears it for a year before Oz Effect.

Like I said, please keep your hopes in check lol

Huh Bleedingcool called it with Wonder Woman #750.

https://www.newsarama.com/48569-wond...yan-hitch.html

And so it begins.

[Ascended]

Is it weird that I'm rather apathetic about this. I'm neither looking forward to it, nor am I disappointed about it happening. Is apathy worse than either of those. Perhaps some fans have just had their share of mutliverse-altering scenarios to the point where it no longer seems to make any difference to them.

Apathy is probably worse than strong feelings in either direction, yeah. And I'm right there with you; it's been interesting seeing Superlad lay out his theory and how it keeps adding up; at this point I'm starting to think he might have figured their plans out (at least the gist of it) because that math lines up too nicely to be a coincidence, but....whatever. Another reboot. It's not even a surprise.

We've known we've been heading in this direction since the Rebirth Special. DC's used "time is broken" as an excuse to screw with their history, retcon stuff, bring stuff back, jettison stuff, whatever, for years. The endgame was always fixing history, which meant another reboot. It was always coming. This is a rather novel way to go about it, I admit, and on a conceptual level it's pretty interesting, as a thought experiment.

I'd probably be more excited/pissed/interested if the rumors about everyone being replaced weren't so persistent. I'm curious enough to check out a Old Man Kent book (among others, this *is* a idea I've considered myself after all), and I've been enjoying a modest chunk of DC's books lately. But the idea of the whole publishing line being replaced by legacies (and ones largely designed to surprise us, or so I hear) just turns me off completely.

Hey! I see that smile creeping across your face and the hope welling up behind your eye. Stop that! I will not be held responsible if this isn't the case

Ha! No worries brother. It's all theory and speculation, I know. Besides, even if it's true at best it's probably just extra detail in the backstory, at worst it's just extra detail in the backstory of the main characters' teachers/mentors/parents. I hold no hope of getting a t-shirt Superman book, in the Golden Age or otherwise.

I mean, a t-shirt Superman in the Golden Age is the pitch I use when discussing movies or Elseworlds and I've said I'd stone cold kill a motherf***er to see that happen, but DC doesn't love me (or Superman) enough for that.

So you see what I mean? It's not *exact*. They aren't scared of splicing events. We know this because Pa Kent is said to die just by himself well after Clark is Superman. But it does try.

If they really are trying "everything counts" there's no way it could be exact. Plus, if Diana really is the first superhero (I love Diana but that's dumb as sh*t, fleeting movie synergy) that already shows they're tweaking stuff.

Or they're just gonna scrap Morrison's stuff in favor of *just* a straight up Golden age start.

Passing on Morrison's t-shirt for Fleischer's black-red shield? Golden Age Superman is a win no matter what wrapper it comes in.

Like I said, please keep your hopes in check lol

Eh. Let's see what books actually come out of all this. I'll save my excitement for title announcements.

Is there any word or rumor about *what* the publishing line is gonna look like with this? I hear 5G takes over the whole line, the classic versions get Black Label mini's. Doesn't swell the heart with joy.

[Frontier]

So Rucks' Wonder Woman Rebirth story is already getting retconned?

Yes. After only being her canon origin for, like, a few years.

Honestly I'm not expecting Snyder and Hitch are going to be able to top Rucka and Scott on Year One.

Is this what it felt like for fans after Superman Birthright happened?

[Fergus]

Thank you to everyone who answered my Tim Drake question.

Ultimately though, I think I'm gonna go under the assumption that he's 10 when he becomes Robin. That keeps him still a teen when he joins the Teen Titans .

Damian was dead for almost a year. Damian became Robin age 10 and Tim at 13.

If you are attempting to work out the new Timeline isn't it better to simply use the current information [dates, ages] etc that dc is using?

[Superlad93]

Damian was dead for almost a year. Damian became Robin age 10 and Tim at 13.

If you are attempting to work out the new Timeline isn't it better to simply use the current information [dates, ages] etc that dc is using?

That is what I'm using. You're talking about the new 60 year timeline, right? It doesn't give Tim a date of birth so you have to guess. It gives Damian a date of Birth but I decided to count from the actual year her was born because that's the only way he's 13 when he forms his Teen Titans, and 9 when he shows up at Bruce's doorstep (which also works). Technically that would be an inaccurate way to calculate their ages, but, as I said, it technically works out. This method also works out for Jon too because that way he's 11 during the Rogol Zaar Unity Saga stuff (he'd be 12 now had he not aged up). And Damian was killed and brought back to life back to back, so I hardly even counted the lost time.

[Superlad93]

Ha! No worries brother. It's all theory and speculation, I know. Besides, even if it's true at best it's probably just extra detail in the backstory, at worst it's just extra detail in the backstory of the main characters' teachers/mentors/parents. I hold no hope of getting a t-shirt Superman book, in the Golden Age or otherwise.

Again, not to get your hopes up, but DiDio has just confirmed that they'll be "retelling" the stories and history that comes from Gen 1 and Gen 2. That means a 13 year old Clark as a secret Superboy in the early 50s, then stepping down when the JSA and superheroes get banned 6 years later, and then coming back in 1963 to be Superman in Gen 2. We'll know one way or the other through a book at some point.

Note: For anyone who cares, I got the date that Superman and Batman show up wrong. It's 1963 and not 1962. But I recounted and I got all the other dates right. The last date we have in the timeline is still 1997.

Passing on Morrison's t-shirt for Fleischer's black-red shield? Golden Age Superman is a win no matter what wrapper it comes in.

Well, in any case, you'll get to see him lift your dumb green car again!

Is there any word or rumor about *what* the publishing line is gonna look like with this? I hear 5G takes over the whole line, the classic versions get Black Label mini's. Doesn't swell the heart with joy.

5G seems to be the whole line of current books. That may change and they might set like Action and Detective back then or something, but from what we're hearing it's everything. That said, it'll bet you basically anything that we're getting a "Grand Design" or "Life Story" sort of book for the major properties alongside a JSA book by Snyder. And, like I said above, DiDio just flat out said they were retelling Gen 1 and Gen 2 stories, and that sounds a whole like like something like Marvel's Grand Design and Life Story books, so look forward to that.

[Vordan]

So Rucks' Wonder Woman Rebirth story is already getting retconned?

Yes. After only being her canon origin for, like, a few years.

Honestly I'm not expecting Snyder and Hitch are going to be able to top Rucka and Scott on Year One.

Is this what it felt like for fans after Superman Birthright happened?

Lmao that actually is the perfect analogy. Yeah Snyder isn’t going to do a better job than Rucka imo.

[Ascended]

Again, not to get your hopes up, but DiDio has just confirmed that they'll be "retelling" the stories and history that comes from Gen 1 and Gen 2. That means a 13 year old Clark as a secret Superboy in the early 50s, then stepping down when the JSA and superheroes get banned 6 years later, and then coming back in 1963 to be Superman in Gen 2. We'll know one way or the other through a book at some point.

I was wondering if we were getting Clark's Superboy back. The covert thing is how I've wanted that done in the modern era. That's cool.

Well, in any case, you'll get to see him lift you dumb green car again!

My kingdom for that dumb green car!!

5G seems to be the whole line of current books. That may change and they might set like Action and Detective back then or something, but from what we're hearing it's everything. That said, it'll bet you basically anything that we're getting a "Grand Design" or "Life Story" sort of book for the major properties alongside a JSA book by Snyder. And, like I said above, DiDio just flat out said they were retelling Gen 1 and Gen 2 stories, and that sounds a whole like like something like Marvel's Grand Design and Life Story books, so look forward to that.

It could also be a single issue in each title that just recaps the basics.

Like I said, I'll save my excitement for title announcements.

Oh, and yes Frontier, this is a lot like the Birthright switch. Pray that Diana doesn't get screwed as badly as Clark did during that time.

[Superlad93]

For anyone interested in Tim's timeline/history, I've noticed that Tim is actually likely older than I once assumed.

If he really does become Robin at 13 then he'd 20 by the Tim Superboy (Conner Kent) dies in Infinite Crisis 7 years later. Then he's 22 when he rejoins the Teen Titans with Cassie and Blue Beetle. Then he's 26 when he comes back to lead the New 52 Teen Titans, and that makes him currently 29.

I think I'm now pretty confident with Tim's timeline. I didn't notice that the Teen Titans team shown in the timeline was the post-Infinite Crisis team. That makes One Year later more like 2, but it works. That makes him 17 when he joins Young Justice and either 18 or 19 when he joins the Teen Titans for the first time.

___________

If you start counting the ages after the character is born then Bruce is 10 when his parents die, he's 20 when he becomes Batman, and in the present he's 54. Applying the same idea to Damian, he's 8 when he meets his father, 10 when he becomes Robin, apparently 11 when he he forms the Teen Titans with Starfire, 13 when he forms his current Teen Titans team, and 14 in the current day. You apply the same to Jon Kent and he's 2 when Conner dies, 5 when Pa dies, and 9 when he becomes Superboy. For Wallace that'd make him 18 when he joins Damian's Teen Titans. Applying this to Dinah Lance puts her at 17 rather than 18 when she joins the JLA, and 48 in the present day.

This is strange for some stuff, but works for other stuff well for other stuff, but so was starting the count the year they were born. My gut says that they go with this. Makes me interested if Dinah lies about her age when she joins the JLA like someone lying to get drafted. That'd be a cool story to tell.

[Superlad93]

I was wondering if we were getting Clark's Superboy back. The covert thing is how I've wanted that done in the modern era. That's cool.

Yeah, I love this being back to him in secret. And I'm really hoping he doesn't fly here. I mean, they've gotta add that time in if they're legit doing "everything", right? I think it'd work out well if he didn't fly till year 2 of being Superman.

It could also be a single issue in each title that just recaps the basics.

Like I said, I'll save my excitement for title announcements.

Yeah I can see that being the case. I'm hoping for a maxi book that covers gens 1 and 2 for Clark. I figure that'd work since the Lois and Jimmy maxis will be ending by the time 5G is here.

[Ascended]

Yeah, I love this being back to him in secret. And I'm really hoping he doesn't fly here. I mean, they've gotta add that time in if they're legit doing "everything", right? I think it'd work out well if he didn't fly till year 2 of being Superman.

Yeah I can see that being the case. I'm hoping for a maxi book that covers gens 1 and 2 for Clark. I figure that'd work since the Lois and Jimmy maxis will be ending by the time 5G is here.

The Superboy Legion stuff can work without Clark being capable of flight, he just needs a Legion ring and those stories can "mostly" happen without any real adjustment and the "it all happened" idea is maintained. We've got Superboy flying with the Legion just like it really happened and a Golden Age Superman who can't fly on his own. Easy enough fix.

That does throw the current Bendis Legion into question. Jon is the first Superboy they've met in this iteration so.....is young Clark recruited by them at a later time after Jon has left, are we dealing with multiple futures, or is this detail just getting retconned?

And yeah, I'd imagine that for a whole history spanning the better part of a century, a single issue wouldn't do the new timeline justice. But that doesn't mean that isn't what DC will do. And even if we get a 3-6, or even 12 issue mini out of the deal....what next? I might be willing to give a couple 5G books a shot if the hook and creators sound good (and I doubt it'll be more than 2 or 3 books, the money I'm about to save!!) but I'm still gonna need my fix of the classic names so if DC wants my cash they better have some titles planned with the guys I want to read about, and not *just* new faces.

[Denirac]

The Interesting thing is the Original Titans Era with Dick, Donna, Roy and Wally would still be young enough to be active heroes

[Mr.B]

Justice Titans.

[dietrich]

A DCU with all characters aged up to reflect real time ages is something I'd love to read but I also don't want it last. I just want to see what that universe looks like and what everyone is doing.

[Superlad93]

The Superboy Legion stuff can work without Clark being capable of flight, he just needs a Legion ring and those stories can "mostly" happen without any real adjustment and the "it all happened" idea is maintained. We've got Superboy flying with the Legion just like it really happened and a Golden Age Superman who can't fly on his own. Easy enough fix.

I'm assuming either Jon goes back with the Legion to see a young Clark, or it's just not in continuity and in an effort to keep the Legion accessible they don't hold it to the "everything happened" rule. Option two sounds more likely right now given the fact that Bendis said that there'd actually been no time travel for the Legion beyond going to just the present with the Jon and Damian stuff.

are we dealing with multiple futures, or is this detail just getting retconned?

He's already confirmed that the Legion are already aware of Clark being Superboy in the 20th century. It seems like the fixed timeline is already a thing for this Legion, so I doubt it.