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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member vasir12's Avatar
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    Because if you look at the new timeline the world will adopt, people should end up being a lot older than they are now.

  2. #32
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    I'm not interested in a Superman that isn't Kal-El, but if we're going to go with it I'd like to see Jon be very different. I like the idea of a young dude trying to live up to his father's legacy but he just...isn't that good or heroic.

    He's not a total ass, but he doesn't have the titanium moral compass that Superman had. He's just kinda "hey look I'm his son, like me!" Which is how Jon has read to me since his introduction, which doesnt appeal to me- but maybe if we just lean hard into it we could have some fun with it. He has potential but all the big battles have been won by his father, and the freaky part is there are way worse things happening in 2019 that really need Superman's attention...but he's gone and we just get this nepotism- this corporate mandated boy who hasn't earned the \S/ and I think that's a really timely story to be told right now.

    That can also be juxtaposed against a super leftist punk rock Kon-El who doesn't take any shit from anyone.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 10-12-2019 at 10:19 AM.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  3. #33
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    I'm not interested in a Superman that isn't Kal-El, but if we're going to go with it I'd like to see Jon be very different. I like the idea of a young dude trying to live up to his father's legacy but he just...isn't that good or heroic.

    He's not a total ass, but he doesn't have the titanium moral compass that Superman had. He's just kinda "hey look I'm his son, like me!" Which is how Jon has read to me since his introduction, which doesnt appeal to me- but maybe if we just lean hard into it we could have some fun with it. He has potential but all the big battles have been won by his father, and the freaky part is there are way worse things happening in 2019 that really need Superman's attention...but he's gone and we just get this nepotism- this corporate mandated boy who hasn't earned the \S/ and I think that's a really timely story to be told right now.

    That can also be juxtaposed against a super leftist punk rock Kon-El who doesn't take any shit from anyone.
    Oh, hell no. I do not want to see Jon written as a loser. And don't see Kon as super-leftist (or really political at all), and he's definitely not the "takes no shit from anyone" type to me - Kon wanted to be popular and cool. I love (90s) Kon and (kid) Jon, and want to see them both shine wonderfully. And seriously, Kon in his origin was more corporate than Jon. He thankfully grows out of his more sexist demeanor (watching him grow was a joy) and improved a lot. But thinking on taxes or healthcare or whatnot - that's something I see not happening for several years for him. Don't exactly see him the type to follow the news (when it doesn't involve him or those close to him), either, at least not for a while. I don't see him going further than voting when it comes to politics. When he's old enough (not sure his age right now, though he should be old enough, but I heard they kept Tim at 16 so maybe not).
    Last edited by Tzigone; 10-12-2019 at 10:33 AM.

  4. #34
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Oh, hell no. I do not want to see Jon written as a loser. And don't see Kon as super-leftist (or really political at all), and he's definitely not the "takes no shit from anyone" type to me - Kon wanted to be popular and cool. I love (90s) Kon and (kid) Jon, and want to see them both shine wonderfully. And seriously, Kon in his origin was more corporate than Jon. He thankfully grows out of his more sexist demeanor (watching him grow was a joy) and improved a lot. But thinking on taxes or healthcare or whatnot - that's something I see not happening for several years for him. Don't exactly see him the type to follow the news (when it doesn't involve him or those close to him), either, at least not for a while. I don't see him going further than voting when it comes to politics. When he's old enough (not sure his age right now, though he should be old enough, but I heard they kept Tim at 16 so maybe not).
    Yeah, but that's why it would make more sense for Kon to have convictions. He's a test tube experiment and not very happy about it. He's also always been real punk, "don't call me Superboy"- it makes sense to push him more into that role.

    I don't think Jon needs to be a loser, but someone with a definite hard time living up to his father. A watered down Superman, who only wears the symbol because his dad did, in a world that desperately needs the real Superman.

    He can grow out of that and come into his own! He'll need help from his friends and to quickly realize that forces much worse than Lex Luthor are rising against him.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  5. #35
    All-New Member JonSBF's Avatar
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    Apparently, there's some things that Damian is being shipped to the Legion (editorial interference?). They want Jon for Superman and maybe are going to replace a Superboy in the Legion with a Robin. Might be just one issue thing, though, so who knows.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Gerard View Post
    Iím down with 5G personally if it returns Kyle and Wally to prominence.
    Prepare to be disappointed then. The gimmick of the event is a new generation of heroes (which Kyle and Wally are not apart of, I think they're 3G?) and even if old heroes were allowed Kyle and Wally are definitely not editorial favourites right now.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    I posted this in the DC forum but it's applicable here...

    I'm just not remotely interested in reading a Superman that isn't Clark Kent, a Batman that isn't Bruce Wayne, and/or a Wonder Woman that isn't Diana Prince.

    Sorry, folks. Maybe that makes me part of the problem with comics right now, and maybe it'll be wildly successful despite my lack of interest. I saw Marvel try this a few years ago and it didn't work, so I have no reason to believe it'll work for DC. But if this is the direction they want to go in more power to them. I just won't be a part of it.
    Everything here

    I don't feel I need to justify this view, me loving the genuine article is not a problem

    Poor hack writing and bad art is, not saying there's lots of that, but I'll buy a book if I like it, changing a character but trying to sell it on the legacy of an older one never interests me

    Where legacy had worked imo it is when they became relevant whilst the original stayed around

    With one exception imo

    If DC do a wholesale replacement like marvel did in many books, I'll just drop them like I did marvel

    I'm sure they won't notice but there it is

  8. #38
    Incredible Member Lvenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    I posted this in the DC forum but it's applicable here...

    I'm just not remotely interested in reading a Superman that isn't Clark Kent, a Batman that isn't Bruce Wayne, and/or a Wonder Woman that isn't Diana Prince.

    Sorry, folks. Maybe that makes me part of the problem with comics right now, and maybe it'll be wildly successful despite my lack of interest. I saw Marvel try this a few years ago and it didn't work, so I have no reason to believe it'll work for DC. But if this is the direction they want to go in more power to them. I just won't be a part of it.
    Couldn't have said it any better myself. Co-signed 100%

  9. #39
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    So, in light of recent news, I've kind of revised what I think would be a cool direction to head for 5G Superman. It's done with keeping in mind that Bendis is clearly staying on the books.

    Basically the pitch would be to do the equivalent of a classic "Thor" set up. Jon, our 5G Superman, is our "Thor" with Clark as our "Odin". See what I'm saying? I'm picturing sort of a hyper mythologized version of the Kennedys. I'm thinking that we attack this really simply, and I'm surprised it didn't occur to me sooner: you pick back up on the father/son dynamic (and by extension, the family dynamic) after all that's gone on, and all these two people have become. Bendis isn't a stranger to keeping the older hero very much present even in the era of the new hero. And the fear of what Lois and Clark's relationship with their son once he grows up will be like has been an idea that's permeated the books since Man of Steel issue 6.

    For Jon, the idea would be a high concept version of your first job after college. And like any self respecting millennial, after college Jon's gonna move back home to his parents' house haha (*sigh* it's funny because it's so true). And I think there's now room for stronger philosophical debates between him and his father. Not "angst" but rather genuine debates and disagreements on this new uncharted territory they're both in.

    Our brash, young idealist who has literally lived in the future, and saw how much better things can be while seeing some of the mistakes ahead of us, opposite our seasoned statesmen who has recently been reinvigorated and inspired, but remains relatively more pragmatic in approach.

    I brought up Thor before because Superman will have built himself something of a pantheon with him as the "Odin" in his new position as President of Earth. So I say lean into that. Really make this DC's First Family.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 10-23-2019 at 01:30 PM.
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  10. #40
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    There's also talk of some sort of time skip in the works, and I can believe it since a) DC isn't a stranger to linewide time skips, b) Snyder's Crisis would be the perfect cap to 4G, and a good place for a time skip, and c) between Avengers: Endgame and manga, audiences who are willing to read comics are more than accustom to the concept.

    My thing is just how long will it be? I current guess is 4 years based on the fact that Jon being part of the Legion is being equated to college, and he's supposed to come back as a young adult, so 21 sounds about right. But that also seems a little high for everything else, ya know? Like, what happens to Young Justice (those I did find it noteworthy that Bendis made Teen Lantern an 11 year old)? So my guess is that only about a year or 2 pass for the DCU, but 4 years pass for Jon.

    This allows Bendis to do the "Ultimate" version of 5YL, and have enough things change in the DCU to warrant the line wide relaunch, but it doesn't move things too far.

    So with the idea of a time skip in mind, I'm super interested in how far along Zod gets with the New Krypton outpost. As two literal world leaders, how did Kal and Zod's relationship progress?
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  11. #41
    Astonishing Member vasir12's Avatar
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    Completely forgot about Zod. His current standing actually reminds me of the Invincible comic.

    Anyway, I could see that Thor/Odin dynamic with Clark having a higher set of responsibilities that may even be cosmic in nature which leaves Jon to focus on the earth.

  12. #42
    Fantastic Member magha_regulus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vasir12 View Post
    Completely forgot about Zod. His current standing actually reminds me of the Invincible comic.

    Anyway, I could see that Thor/Odin dynamic with Clark having a higher set of responsibilities that may even be cosmic in nature which leaves Jon to focus on the earth.
    I think there's an argumentto go the opposite route and have Jon have the more cosmic adventures and have superman be the one with the earth based adventures. He is president of earth after all and at this point jon has spent more than half of his life away from earth.

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    And the Kents being dead has an in-universe reason anyway. A couple of them actually - Manhattan's tampering and/or Vyndyktv orchestrating their deaths. So essentially, we are back to the Pre-Flashpoint origin, and the one big deviation has been caused by tampering with the fabric of reality that might get undone by the end of Doomsday Clock.
    I don't see DDC being anything relevant at this point except MAYBE a lead in to the next Crisis. And even then I don't know how far out this is planned.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  14. #44
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    I don't see DDC being anything relevant at this point except MAYBE a lead in to the next Crisis. And even then I don't know how far out this is planned.
    I think we might still, possibly, end up with a few minor tweaks to origins and history. Clark's parents being alive again has been foreshadowed since issue 1 and Bendis keeps saying "wait until Clock is finished I can't talk about the Kents." Maybe Bendis is just being cagey but I won't be surprised if the Kents return when Clock's over.
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  15. #45
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I think we might still, possibly, end up with a few minor tweaks to origins and history. Clark's parents being alive again has been foreshadowed since issue 1 and Bendis keeps saying "wait until Clock is finished I can't talk about the Kents." Maybe Bendis is just being cagey but I won't be surprised if the Kents return when Clock's over.
    I've been convinced for a while now that they're trying to get back to some sort of post-Crisis type status since that's the most popular, and most stable, period in his history. All signs point to that. Sending Jon into the future, bringing the Kents back. Even eliminating his connection to the Legion. All are post Crisis innovations.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

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