Last edited by Daedra; 10-13-2019 at 06:45 AM.
Ommadon: “By summoning all the dark powers I will infest the spirit of man So that he uses his science and logic to destroy himself. Greed and avarice shall prevail, and those who do not hear my words shall pay the price. I'll teach man to use his machines, I'll show him what distorted science can give birth to. I'll teach him to fly like a fairy, and I'll give him the ultimate answer to all his science can ask. And the world will be free for my magic again.”
Oh, I agree with you here. I don't think Xavier ever looked at the issue in those terms (possibly before now, if he this is how he's seeing things currently), and I don't think he would have agreed with the zero sum thesis prior to Moira's intervention. I was just extrapolating a potential outcome of Xavier's classic philosophy under the framework Hickman has presented of homo sapiens seemingly inevitable decline and fade away.
That's a notion about offering the Krakoan Drugs that I never considered...and is completely plausible when you really think about it in the grand context.
Xavier didn't HAVE to offer the drugs to humanity as a "bargaining chip".
Well...this certainly paints a new colour over my initial thoughts on Xavier and Erik's motives.
Lord Ewing *Praise His name! Uplift Him in song!* Your divine works will be remembered and glorified in worship for all eternity. Amen!
I totally get that, and mostly agree. The premise and the actions of many key players seems to assume a zero sum game. That doesn’t imply that Hickman sees it as a zero sum game, and I am drawing that fine distinction. You are not specifically saying that Hickman does see it like this and I acknowledge that.
We need to be careful not to assume what Hickman would have happen if Xavier’s dream became possible. The way you present it sounds very much like the philosophy of manifest destiny, in that his dream would be in place as the humans faded away, just as white settlers in the west of the US believed that the natives would simply fade away through natural means. I am pretty sure thats not how Hickman would present the dream.
It may indeed be the way certain humans in Orchis would see it.
Last edited by JKtheMac; 10-13-2019 at 07:34 AM.
“And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
no it wasn't my intent to propose such a thing, I'm not looking for ways to exterminate most of the human race but I do believe that if advanced killer robots came to your door to wipe you out, building some better robot to defend yourself would be worth a try considering all the tech and resources available to mutants, same goes for genetically enhanced super beings..... some way or the other the mutant race has to find a way to avoid ending up in internment camp or being wiped out by a legion of futuristic sentinels, it's a problem not unlike the one posed by nuclear weapons, sometimes a form of deterrence can go a long way.
Ommadon: “By summoning all the dark powers I will infest the spirit of man So that he uses his science and logic to destroy himself. Greed and avarice shall prevail, and those who do not hear my words shall pay the price. I'll teach man to use his machines, I'll show him what distorted science can give birth to. I'll teach him to fly like a fairy, and I'll give him the ultimate answer to all his science can ask. And the world will be free for my magic again.”
I believe their deterrents are the X-villains, then again in HoM they did have their own Sentinels and in IvX Forge did create Sentinels albeit under the influence of Frost so it is possible they could create their own bacth.
Also, I believe that we all caught up in the Nimrod thing too much because the Sentinels as it was revealed were never the biggest threat, not to say they aren't one just not the bigger one, the threat here is Homos Novissima which is a long ways off but still the major threat that Moira sought to stop. The Sentinels bought humanity time that was spent in ways to further tehir own development which in the case of life 6 they succeeded.
Then there is the drugs being issued to slow humanity down, personally i feel that extending the lifespans and healing the sick is how you dimisnish the need to reproduce and the need to advance thus a species will slowly go stagnant, perhaps that is the way they buy time for them to be ready for the future...not that it will help because they are taunting Murphy witht their whole "Let them try" which you someone will until the secret is out about what is really going on.
On a sidenote, do you think they have a kill on sight order for cyborgs like Karima or Lady Deathstrike/Reavers? I mean it is a forgone conclusion that Karima will be seen again but i do wonder about the later. Or what about Deathlok who has been a friend to them?
This is why the Librarian conversation is so interesting. After an age in which humanity turned away from mutants, sought to opress and destroy them, in the end the Librarian turns TO mutants. His evolution has reached a conclusion he isn't necessarily happy with, in ascension. And now he looks to mutants to offer a potential path forward towards a different outcome.
I feel like there is a potential there for a very Xavier solution. For humans and mutants to move forward together, bettering each other and opening the door for progress beyond their respective limitations. Symbiosis, rather than competition, perhaps.
It is, in essence, a refutation of the zero sum argument. In the face of the limits of human augmentation, the Librarian, for the first time, looks at mutants as an opportunity for humanity rather than an obstacle. A recognition perhaps that humans misunderstood the game and are worse off for it.
I'm very curious to see if any of the Dawn books pick up this thread.
Forge did try to build a pro mutant Sentinel to defend the remaining mutants after MDay. It was hijacked by Nimrod tho bc purely technological solutions arent reliable. As HoX pointed out, while Forge is the best mutant technopath, humans have far surpassed him in what they can invent.
So far it looks like they just take issues with artificial A.I. created with the express purpose to deal with genetic "deviations" from what's considered baseline but artificial intelligence can be just as friendly and helpful depending on the conclusion reached by the sentient machine itself...... not sure they are going to adopt a scorched earth approach to the issue but they seems to prefer technology based on organic tech just to be on the safe side.
Homo novissima can be an issue only if the mutant decide to avoid taking charge of their own evolution but a future where humans start to design their own evolutionary path cannot be avoided in my opinion (and that may be truth even in a non comic-book reality), it's a road full of ethical question marks for sure, limiting the discussion to the 616 fictional reality my guess is that somehow If attacked from enhanced humans genetically superior to them homo superior will have to find a way to cope with the issue and the stuff from life 9 involving chimeras seems to be the obvious answer, it was stated to be quite effective until Sinister decided to betray them all, they better keep an eye on him this time, even better? find a way to do it all without him!
Last edited by Daedra; 10-13-2019 at 08:41 AM.
Ommadon: “By summoning all the dark powers I will infest the spirit of man So that he uses his science and logic to destroy himself. Greed and avarice shall prevail, and those who do not hear my words shall pay the price. I'll teach man to use his machines, I'll show him what distorted science can give birth to. I'll teach him to fly like a fairy, and I'll give him the ultimate answer to all his science can ask. And the world will be free for my magic again.”
"Danielle... I intend to do something rash and violent." - Betsy Braddock
Krakoa, Arakko, and Otherworld forever!
And i answered the question. You didn't like my answer went into everything else when it really wasn't neccessary. When push comes to shove mutants are creating a safe space rather than genetically changing themselves. Which is no different than someone changing their color because they are being persecuted. You felt i was being personal but in fact it was a simple analogy which can easily be applied in universe to characters of colors just as easily as the real world. What's important here is not to make it so personal. Sometimes idea won't agree with yours and sometimes they will flat out defy yours but it's ok, it's not that serious.
Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.
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Into the breach.
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I just don't think the example of someone changing his own skin colors really fits the question I was asking, It seems pointless because it does not make someone any more capable of defending krakoa, chimeras on the other end or apocalypse celestial tech can give some mutants the power boost required to better defend "the designated" safe place when bigots an racists show up willing to destroy it. I was thinking along the lines of enhancing mutants nature not denying it altogether which when applied to skin color or sexual preferences is really horrible.
Last edited by Daedra; 10-13-2019 at 12:00 PM.
Ommadon: “By summoning all the dark powers I will infest the spirit of man So that he uses his science and logic to destroy himself. Greed and avarice shall prevail, and those who do not hear my words shall pay the price. I'll teach man to use his machines, I'll show him what distorted science can give birth to. I'll teach him to fly like a fairy, and I'll give him the ultimate answer to all his science can ask. And the world will be free for my magic again.”
Last edited by JKtheMac; 10-13-2019 at 03:58 PM.
“And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.